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DirectAdmin Price Increase - Page 5
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DirectAdmin Price Increase

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Comments

  • HxxxHxxx Member
    edited July 2022

    @MechanicWeb said:

    @Hxxx said: I also see wrong when you say things like that, you are kind of limited in that form of thinking. It doesn't make justice to say that because most people can't do it then nobody can. There is always new talent rising.
    Frameworks has evolved a lot from what they were 10 years ago. We have many new languages with their advantages and a whole new generation of developers.

    Let's not make it about me.

    It doesn't make any difference to the hosting industry how much market share we or Francisco has in the hosting industry or what we can or cannot develop.

    Every once in a while a talent can rise. Did it make any difference in the last ten years in the control panel industry? No

    Individual gains or talents are insignificant when you consider the hosting industry as a whole.

    As you are aware there are one or two panels in the making, looking promising. SaaS.
    We also have other SaaS panels such as Cloudron, serverpilot, runcloud, etc. It maybe not exactly or has the same feature set as DirectAdmin or cPanel, but they are living proof that the market (control panel market) has indeed been evolving, new talent getting in and innovating.

  • MechanicWebMechanicWeb Member, Patron Provider

    @Hxxx said:
    As you are aware there are one or two panels in the making, looking promising. SaaS.

    If I understand what you are referring to, I am not as enthusiastic as you. Such panels pop up and vanishes all the time.

    In this case, they are yet to reach production. They will need to gain a client base, and then when they will have a significant client base, they will have any real opportunity to discover and furnish out bugs :)

    This is why established control panels like DA matters way more.

    We also have other SaaS panels such as Cloudron, serverpilot, runcloud, etc.

    They haven't yet reached any level to hold any significant market share in the industry. Only user from a few communities use them. people largely haven't heard their name.

    If you compare their combined userbase to the userbase of DA, DA would come out on top. Let alone cPanel, or other more established control panel.

    Also, how they are relevant to providers that use cPanel or DA? If they are not relevant, what is your point?

    Thanked by 2webcraft afn
  • @Hxxx said:
    As you are aware there are one or two panels in the making, looking promising. SaaS.
    We also have other SaaS panels such as Cloudron, serverpilot, runcloud, etc. It maybe not exactly or has the same feature set as DirectAdmin or cPanel, but they are living proof that the market (control panel market) has indeed been evolving, new talent getting in and innovating.

    You're comparing Oranges and Apples. Cloudron and DA have few in common. I doubt you can convince many providers using a SaaS product, especially when it comes to privacy and data sovereignity.

  • HxxxHxxx Member
    edited July 2022

    @MechanicWeb In a previous reply you said:
    "Every once in a while a talent can rise. Did it make any difference in the last ten years in the control panel industry? No"

    From my perspective it did made a difference, I do see other alt panels already in production (Cloudron, serverpilot, runcloud) that didn't existed 10 years ago. A user could use any of these to achieve the goal of hosting whatever website they want and achieving the simplicity of shared hosting for their websites.

    As an industry it really have grown and we should expect more coming.

    @webcraft never compared just used them as argument to counter the wide claim somebody made. Just alternatives / different product, that could be used to fulfill some of what is expected.

  • MechanicWebMechanicWeb Member, Patron Provider

    @Hxxx said: From my perspective it did made a difference, I do see other alt panels already in production

    These control panels are much smaller, kind of mom and pop shops like smaller hosting providers.

    There is no guarantee that one day they might not vanish. There is also no consistency to depend on or no public audits.

    These panels have never been security audited. There is no data about regular security audits by any renowned third-party security audit firms.

    It is also important what webcraft has noted above that you are comparing Oranges and Apples.

    Privacy and data sovereignty matter to established providers, users, and businesses. These panels do not hold any ground to them.

    But I do understand these do not matter to everyone, nor does everyone needs them.

    Thanked by 1webcraft
  • HxxxHxxx Member
    edited July 2022

    @MechanicWeb said:
    But I do understand these do not matter to everyone, nor does everyone needs them.

    Anyway moving on, agree to disagree.

    In regards to the security of these panels, I recommend you to not say such things unless you have an official statements claiming that all of these have never been audited.

    Have a good day. We can keep going back and forward all day but I'm sure we both have more important matters to attend.

  • MumblyMumbly Member
    edited July 2022

    inb4 first one start to offer:

    • DiskSpace : 10GB
    • Monthly Bandwidth: 300 GB
    • Hosted Domains: 5
    • Email Accounts: 5
    • FTP Accounts: 5
    • Uptime : 99.99%
    • Connection Speed: 1 Gbps
    • 500 Gbps ddos proection
    • AntiVirus Included
    • Hestia Control Panel
    • 24/7 Support

    ... and then whole budget hosting industry follow :)

  • afnafn Member
    edited July 2022

    @Hxxx said: I'm confident that with the right team a provider with volume (cash) can certainly develop a solid control panel adapted to their user base.

    Where do you get that confidence from? how many success examples do you have? how many panels have you built and revolutionized the hosting industry with?

    Developing the right panel is not easy, even with money. Finding the right talent is not an easy task. A lot of people think using their asses instead of brains when picking designs of panels.

    @MechanicWeb said: Francisco has been around for a quite a while, and made a business of their own. How many LET providers from ten years ago are still around?

    +1

    @webcraft said: You're comparing Oranges and Apples. Cloudron and DA have few in common. I doubt you can convince many providers using a SaaS product, especially when it comes to privacy and data sovereignity.

    +1

    @Hxxx said: never compared just used them as argument to counter the wide claim somebody made.

    hxxx, you are using irrelevant arguments. you can't use an argument about the orange color of oranges, to prove the redness of apples :neutral:

    Anyway, since we are giving irrelevant examples that have nothing to do with DA and cpanel, if we take the examples of custom panels for server management, look at Hybula, Enigma(terrahost) and stallion (buyVM), these are exceptions that worked fine. A panel like Enigma is used both for billing and server management, and let me tell you, the people behind that thing sure as hell know jack shit about billing, so enigma sucks when it comes to billing.

    moral of what I mean: creating your own custom piece of panel software (not matter what type of panels we are talking about), that works, ergonomically acceptable, secure, lives for so long is no easy task, not even with just "volume"/money.

  • HxxxHxxx Member
    edited July 2022

    @afn said:

    @Hxxx said: I'm confident that with the right team a provider with volume (cash) can certainly develop a solid control panel adapted to their user base.

    Where do you get that confidence from? how many success examples do you have? how many panels have you built and revolutionized the hosting industry with?

    Developing the right panel is not easy, even with money. Finding the right talent is not an easy task. A lot of people think using their asses instead of brains when picking designs of panels.

    Experience, like already mentioned, I've seen that side as a Software Dev, like many of other users around in this place. The best way to attract good developers is with the right pay. The same way any of these other companies built their teams. Looking for experienced developers and having a clear roadmap of what's needed. Having mentioned that volume and cash are needed of course, this is very much possible to any major player in the industry. The tech industry have changed a lot. The limitations of 10 years ago in frameworks / stacks are not necessarily the limitations of today. Also there are way more developers nowadays than 10 years ago.

    And as a plus I like to mention the middle sized players that developed their own control panel by themselves. It should serve as example that while it looks impossible is not.

  • HxxxHxxx Member
    edited July 2022

    @afn I believe I was clear when I mentioned those other services/ SaaS. They do share a subset of features and both can help a user manage their server and simplify hosting overall. You can re-read anytime the arguments made in case you missed something.

    Have a nice day sir.

    Hint: make sure you don't take it out of context when looking back, make sure you read to what was replied.

    Thanked by 1afn
  • LeeLee Veteran

    The more important aspect of hosting in general when it comes to consumers is that they want familiarity. They don't want a different panel each time they move. I have experience of that being the case for the last 20 years.

    For clarity, a consumer to me is not one that would use LET.

  • HxxxHxxx Member
    edited July 2022

    @Lee said:
    The more important aspect of hosting in general when it comes to consumers is that they want familiarity. They don't want a different panel each time they move. I have experience of that being the case for the last 20 years.

    For clarity, a consumer to me is not one that would use LET.

    Agree.

    Have in mind that the general customer don't care or know about control panels. Usually they don't know what's cPanel or DirectAdmin , much less Plesk. The big brands usually don't show the cPanel logo, even if they are using it , they have a SSO set, so a customer jumps from one panel (billing) to another(the actual control panel) and the users might not even notice they are now using cPanel (i.e).

    The supposed DA price increase "if we can call it that" doesn't change their billing model. Is still very much a great cPanel alternative, one that I have come to like. Is a fair change IMHO, maybe lot of providers were abusing internal licenses or it was not supposed to be that popular.

  • ArkasArkas Moderator

    In essence though, small providers are also advertising DA when they offer it, and clients get accustomed to it. Please don't tell me that clients can't see the difference between Cpanel, DA, and other control panels. Essentially, Any control panel dev, can take the clients with them, in the sense that clients do adapt to a CP much more than to a hosting provider. So the hosting provider is left high and dry.

  • mwtmwt Member

    @Arkas said:
    Essentially, Any control panel dev, can take the clients with them, in the sense that clients do adapt to a CP much more than to a hosting provider. So the hosting provider is left high and dry.

    I think that this is true. In broad strokes, web hosting is a support contract, a user interface/panel, and a tiny slice of hardware.

    The last piece is hard to compete on without extraordinary scale because it's an open market. A provider's value either has to come from the ability to offer excellent support at a lower price than competitors or some special features that make it stand out from competitors.

    Thanked by 1szarka
  • @adly said:

    @Lee said:

    @Tom_B said: The personal version will no longer receive updates after August 1 2023?

    Wait, what? Surely not. You are paying for that license? Thought this was only about internal licences...

    They’re discontinuing any license without the Pro Pack, including the current Personal license.

    Protection against price increases
    So their escape is to discontinue the product and you'll be forced to upgrade to the next tier.

    Thanked by 1webcraft
  • HxxxHxxx Member

    @mwt said:

    @Arkas said:
    Essentially, Any control panel dev, can take the clients with them, in the sense that clients do adapt to a CP much more than to a hosting provider. So the hosting provider is left high and dry.

    I think that this is true. In broad strokes, web hosting is a support contract, a user interface/panel, and a tiny slice of hardware.

    The last piece is hard to compete on without extraordinary scale because it's an open market. A provider's value either has to come from the ability to offer excellent support at a lower price than competitors or some special features that make it stand out from competitors.

    Agree.
    But to be able to innovate in the interface/panel, well you really can't if you are a provider using and providing the same thing the other 1 million host do.

    However in cases where (Siteground i.e, If you know another one lmk) a custom panel has been developed ( I think BigScoots did this for their wordpress offers), if you do it right you get to innovate or make things even easier.

  • szarkaszarka Member

    @Hxxx said:
    It is boring that everyone uses the same control panels and don't make an effort to give the user a different UX.

    Boring is exactly what I want from a control panel. I don't want to have to figure out where to do something a different way every time I work on a different VPS or modify a site for a customer. Domain registrars are a good example of what a nightmare that can be.

  • MechanicWebMechanicWeb Member, Patron Provider

    Let's keep this thread about DA price hike, folks.

  • Consider the developers salary raised these years, I will take that change since I am one of the beneficiary.

  • MechanicWebMechanicWeb Member, Patron Provider

    A business usually charges more for its products and services when it becomes more established.

    This increase will hurt smaller and new providers wanting to offer DA. I can only hope that all this will result in something better.

  • handyhosthandyhost Member, Host Rep

    This is a setback for small providers like me

  • adlyadly Veteran

    This was 100% expected. It’s not great and I’ve used DA for years which ‘stings’. But this is the only potential result of western capitalism. 🤷‍♂️

  • @Francisco still offering free DA licenses?
    Recycling the old licenses?

  • RickBakkrRickBakkr Member, Patron Provider, LIR

    @dotcomUNDERGROUND said:
    @Francisco still offering free DA licenses?
    Recycling the old licenses?

    Even if he doesn't, the licenses are still available until next year ...

  • @RickBakkr said:

    @dotcomUNDERGROUND said:
    @Francisco still offering free DA licenses?
    Recycling the old licenses?

    Even if he doesn't, the licenses are still available until next year ...

    Internal licences will be available till next year? Thought they were being discontinued from Aug 1.

  • FranciscoFrancisco Top Host, Host Rep, Veteran

    @dotcomUNDERGROUND said:

    @RickBakkr said:

    @dotcomUNDERGROUND said:
    @Francisco still offering free DA licenses?
    Recycling the old licenses?

    Even if he doesn't, the licenses are still available until next year ...

    Internal licences will be available till next year? Thought they were being discontinued from Aug 1.

    Yes, of 2023.

    Francisco

    Thanked by 1dotcomUNDERGROUND
  • verovero Member, Host Rep

    Two years ago I was arguing about DA not issuing any warning before making changes to one's pricing and the existence of personal license, which, in my opinion, is directly competing with web hosting packages sold by hosts, which are offering DA as control panel. Voilà - quests accomplished, time to make some new ones.

  • SiliCloudSiliCloud Member, Patron Provider, LIR

    I think is it the time to develop a new vhost panel. :D

  • IKIHOSTIKIHOST Member, Patron Provider

    Our team is in the stage of designing the framework, models, and features on the control panel which has the exact same function as cpanel, maybe different on whm.

    We are aware of the drastic and rapid industrial changes in control panels such as DA etc. We want to come up with a concept that is practical and friendly. Relations welcome

    Thanked by 1lovelyserver
  • Yes go and make a control panel yourself, sure why not...
    -You will never achieve it unless you got lot of cash and a very experienced team, otherwise your customers are going to get rekt with exploits.

    -Please don't make it SaaS, that's a model that doesn't fit and compromises some security concepts.

    In case that you forgot, DA didn't got a price increase.
    1- The discontinuation is for internal licensing BUT not everyone got affected the same. Some providers secured their current deals and will continue to have internal licenses. If anybody knows more feel free to contribute to this conversation.

    2- Personal got nuked, anyway who the fuck runs shit with admin user?

    That's it. No plan got a price increase. Internal licenses are not supposed to be used as a selling bonus, but some did hence the consequences.

    Thanked by 1tjn
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