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The only thing of any relevance in this thread is that now we know one of the parties is lying about how overdue the invoice was when the servers were shutdown.
Mao you do the same thing as incero.
That thing is following your own terms.
Why is that hard to accept?
Confused.
For the record so do I but I don't even give 1 second of grace time. I give a load of reminders instead.
No one is wrong here apart from the person who should have paid the invoice which has been established as simple human error. It happens.
End of story.
Another accusation which means the point is not clear. Let's try again:
Someone said we do the same and that is simply not true. I proved that beyond any reason of a doubt, so I suppose the only point remaining is if a ToS should be used as a weapon against a customer or not.
Many people expressed the view it should, I disagree, but other than that I do not deny for a second it was Incero's right to use their ToS and corrupt the data on all services when one was not paid, even for a minute, so it is irrelevant if they were late 1 minute or 36 hours. They were 100% right within the terms of the ToS. I agree with this point, was never an issue and I am sure the ToS also makes it clear no data is guaranteed, so the corruption is also within the terms of the ToS even on the servers which were not late on payment.
As for why I am discussing this here well, it is a public forum where free people share free ideas.
I made my point, others made theirs, lets not take this personally, I am sorry if i got carried away by some of the accusations. Some people know that is one of my weaknesses :P
... is that someone made an oversight and was late paying their invoice (by one minute, one hour or one day - whatever) and someone else followed their TOS to the letter and did things the easy way (for them) with no care in the world.
I have no axe to grind here, I barely know Fliphost (I'm a client) and never heard of Incero until 2 days ago.
@Incero: Hi Gordon
I think you could use some help with your billing system, which does not allow you to turn things off selectively 
@Fliphost: for the sake of your customers, it's always a good idea to read the small print and assume that your business partner will follow it to the letter - as is their right. Given the hassle, I'm pretty sure you have already undertaken steps to forestall a repeat performance
EDIT: oh, and thanks for making this public pour encourager les autres
What's done is done. CloudShards accepted their mistake. Incero followed up with further details. We cannot force them to change their policy on disengaging power supply to all servers. It's up to them. Why not just move on folks?
@Maounique
"The customer we have is more valuable than the one we could have."
That is something more people should understand and why I love Prometeus
dear me Mao.
What part of what I said was an accusation?
I am just going to put this down to a language barrier and you being on the defensive as all you have done it talk 'around' what I said.
I "accused" you of following YOUR tos, nothing else.
Saying we do the same as Incero is offensive to me when that is not the case at all.
And I proved to you that we do not. Ask any customer of ours, you will see NOBODY ever paid late fees nor was asked about, that we do refunds, full if there was a fault of ours even after some months or proportional and taking back the fees we paid to paypal mostly if it wasnt.
You have to admit that if all ToSes were applied to the letter nobody would host with anyone.
I give up, you win
Does this empathy come along with an automated notification email to the client who defaults payment, warning of the impending "action"?
I agree. You need it for your protection, but no one enforces the most brutal of their policies at all times. At least no one popular.
Incero did nothing wrong, only following the terms their customers agreed to. You people are out of your mind blaming Incero for this.
Nobody does as I clearly wrote it, they were within their right to do it.
The discussion is phylosophical.
They had the right, but was it right ?
Honestly, find someone else.
Gordon is just a sweet talker and then dumps lies and delays once he has your money or sometimes even rude or charges $10 ("Bump Fee") for opening a 2nd ticket relating to IPv6 after a month (despite him saying it'll be ready 'next week' after ordering)
Most likely cheap to get more ARIN space quickly and likely doesn't care about anyone from his somewhat good deals.
Unlike a company here whom maybe hated by a lot but the service is delivered and no front up lies or bs and will gladly help you expand.
@Maounique - I get what your are saying, but it's the wrong crowd for phylosophical discussions.
@Incero so you have no knowedge to gracefull shutdown a server? I know some people they do this with there home computer and they just plug off the power but they havent't the knowedge to find the shutdown button..
Since at least one person got it it is not
This forum is not as dumb as people claim. There are many people that only read and get the conclusions without a need to be explained in detail.
Took me a while to reach this conclusion.
@serverrian that was sarcasm and you didn't get it,
Exactly! And what bothers me most is that Incero appears to have plainly powered the server down. Not a graceful shutdown, instead just pull the power cable out. I find that quite unacceptable, even though the customer has an overdue invoice. Even more so, it seems they have pulled all the servers, not just the one that wasn't being paid. I mean, come on? Does Incero even want to keep them as a customer or do they want to scare them away?
Sure, it's all in the ToS. But your ToS doesn't make you keep customers. Your service does.
If I made a wrong assumption in the above, please let me know.
From what they say, they do an IPMI shutdown and reset.
It is likely they are not spaced well and the reset comes during the shutdown when everything is written to disk like crazy, creating the perfect storm.
Actually, it "depends".
http://puu.sh/5m4VN.png
There is:
Power Off Server - Immediate
Power Off Server - Orderly Shutdown (the graceful option)
we don't vote through arguments. we vote with our money by our decision in purchases.
I'm curious which option they used. I'm thinking the former, because the latter would probably not have caused data corruption/loss.
From my experience the one time I was asked to suspend a service manually because the users messed up their IPMI. I was asked to gracefully shut down. Can't speak for this experience as I was not there, but I know in all cases I have been told to gracefully shutdown because of issues that can happen with Raid. Honestly in my opinion it was probably a glitch in the IPMI shutdown code (possibly wrong option) and if that was the case I will personally ask that we look into that today and prevent a future occurrence that might result in data loss.
See, it is not that hard, we can all learn and become better.
A person is the sum of his experiences throughout life.
A problem is always an opportunity to learn. I really hope we can sort things out in the end.
To be honest Gordon, every time you open your mouth and every time a customer complains about your service, it makes you appear like a greedy little child.