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★ VirMach ★ Black Friday & Cyber Week 2019 ★ RAID 10 SSD ★ KVM ★ Check inside for offers! - Page 122
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★ VirMach ★ Black Friday & Cyber Week 2019 ★ RAID 10 SSD ★ KVM ★ Check inside for offers!

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Comments

  • @tetech said:

    VirMach said: 4. You must be a VirMach customer for at least 6 months.

    Seems a bit odd that this requirement is removed mostly for non-US customers (who I'd assume are likely to use credit card/PayPal). I'd imagine this will significantly increase the number of transfers, but maybe I don't know anything.

    You know there are no dispute things like Paypal if Chinese buyers choose Alipay, if you pay , the transaction is done.

  • @tetech said:

    VirMach said: 4. You must be a VirMach customer for at least 6 months.

    Seems a bit odd that this requirement is removed mostly for non-US customers (who I'd assume are likely to use credit card/PayPal). I'd imagine this will significantly increase the number of transfers, but maybe I don't know anything.

    The root problem is not 'service' transfer as I said before.

    It prevents a situation: Original owner may dispute on PayPal after his VPS transfered to the others. Sometimes this happends caused by cheating activity or account theft, Virmach will lost the dispute on PayPal without providing evidences (Like the authorization letter and personal ID from the original customer) and lost money.

    However, lots of Chinese customers (include me) rather our VPS being theft than provide personal ID to Virmach. However, some of who are barefaced may dispute on Virmach. So they finally find a way to solve the problem: Remove identity check if the customer uses AliPay to purchase.

    As you may not know, AliPay is a Chinese purchase tool, once you dispute, your will never get your money back. That fits our culture, once sell, never chargeback. Everyone happys now.

    (I'm eating lunch while writing the thread)

  • FAT32FAT32 Administrator, Deal Compiler Extraordinaire
    edited December 2019

    @VirMach this took me a long time to translate because I have to make sure it has the same meaning, I will be posting it to the Chinese community soon

    我们为使用支付宝和加密货币的用户删除了手持 ID 和账号需 6 个月的需求。当然,我们还是可以因为觉得您滥用而拒绝转让。我们增加了 2FA 验证的要求,且账号必须是在良好的状态。如果我们发现到任何不妥,我们有可能再修改下列条例。


    如果您需要转让服务给其他人,您需要符合下列的条款和手续,且转让方需支付最低 3 刀的转让费。

    转让方需求:
    1. 您必须要确认您的服务将永久性转让给接收方,这个过程是不可逆的也不能退款
    2. 您必须要开启 2FA 双重认证,确认了邮箱,并有正确的个人资料在案
    3. 您的服务必须是独立的,而不具有任何的附属。若您的服务有附属,那您需要多支付 2 刀

    转让方需求(若您使用 信用卡 或 PayPal 支付):
    4. 您必须要是 VirMach 的顾客 6 个月或以上
    5. 您必须要手持 ID 自拍,并手持一张纸写着 "For service transfer by VirMach"(用于 VirMach 服务转让)和今天的日期
    6. 您必须要有已验证的电邮且与 PayPal 支付电邮符合

    接收方需求:
    1. 您必须要有正确的个人资料在案,通过欺诈验证,并开启 2FA 双重认证
    2. 您必须要有适当的支付方式在案或最低 5 刀的余额
    3. 您必须要创建工单以确认这项转让

    双方账号必须要在良好的状态,并无任何近期的滥用或违规。就算您符合所有的需求,我们保有权利能拒绝任何我们觉得不适当的转让手续。如果我们拒绝了您的转让,我们将退回转让费(如果被征收了)。您要明白我们允许转让是出自于好意而并非有责任的。

    如果您确认双方都符合所列下的需求,那请在工单回复并支付转让费以启动转让手续。就算转让手续不顺利,转让费也是不能退回的。我们不负责任何转让过程中出乎预料的任何错误,如多过一个相同 SolusVM 账号下的服务同时被转移,或转让方能访问接收方的服务。我们不负责任何第三方关于转让的分歧。请自行删除任何小鸡上的私人数据及您不想要和接收方分享的任何数据。确认了要接收后,请确保工单的格式为:"Service Transfer - From Ticket #123456",并自行把 123456 换成正确的工单号码。

    请确保接收方也有下列的信息并了解所有条款:

    “我接受来自转让方的服务,并了解 VirMach 并不负责任何转让过程中所发生的出乎预料的错误。我明白 VirMach 不负责任何第三方关于转让的分歧。任何服务转让后剩下的余额是出自于好意而不是欠我的。转让后我将负责所有服务上发生的事情,并由我来负责任何接下来关于这项服务的费用。我明白 VirMach 无法验证任何转让后的配置和价格。如果转让完成后有任何的不满,我明白我唯一的解决方法是在有效期间内取消该项服务。”

  • @Remon said:

    @tetech said:

    VirMach said: 4. You must be a VirMach customer for at least 6 months.

    Seems a bit odd that this requirement is removed mostly for non-US customers (who I'd assume are likely to use credit card/PayPal). I'd imagine this will significantly increase the number of transfers, but maybe I don't know anything.

    You know there are no dispute things like Paypal if Chinese buyers choose Alipay, if you pay , the transaction is done.

    I know. From my perspective part of the requirement was not about disputes but about stopping selling of VM's before invoices have been paid. Now that is gone it seems this would be even easier.

  • lowendclientlowendclient Member
    edited December 2019

    @FAT32 said:
    @VirMach this took me a long time to translate because I have to make sure it has the same meaning, I will be posting it to the Chinese community soon

    Already posted on Hostloc (Not by me) as soon as Virmach posted:
    https://www.hostloc.com/thread-622344-1-1.html
    We watch LET much more than you think :D

  • FAT32FAT32 Administrator, Deal Compiler Extraordinaire

    @lowendclient said:
    We watch LET much more than you think :D

    So what. That's Google Translate and I am translating it manually.

    Thanked by 1exiust
  • @lowendclient said:

    @tetech said:

    VirMach said: 4. You must be a VirMach customer for at least 6 months.

    Seems a bit odd that this requirement is removed mostly for non-US customers (who I'd assume are likely to use credit card/PayPal). I'd imagine this will significantly increase the number of transfers, but maybe I don't know anything.

    The root problem is not 'service' transfer as I said before.

    It prevents a situation: Original owner may dispute on PayPal after his VPS transfered to the others. Sometimes this happends caused by cheating activity or account theft, Virmach will lost the dispute on PayPal without providing evidences (Like the authorization letter and personal ID from the original customer) and lost money.

    However, lots of Chinese customers (include me) rather our VPS being theft than provide personal ID to Virmach. However, some of who are barefaced may dispute on Virmach. So they finally find a way to solve the problem: Remove identity check if the customer uses AliPay to purchase.

    As you may not know, AliPay is a Chinese purchase tool, once you dispute, your will never get your money back. That fits our culture, once sell, never chargeback. Everyone happys now.

    (I'm eating lunch while writing the thread)

    First, I understand you're only the messenger here, so nothing is intended personally.

    I don't care about the ID thing - if there's a solution which is acceptable to both VirMach and Chinese customers then good. Seems things are heading in that direction.

    I'm more annoyed about this idea of treating VMs as some kind of trading commodity, writing bots to purchase BF specials, and so on, and then claiming there is some "right" to do it (which clearly there is not - that's black & white).

    Therefore, anything to discourage this behavior is welcome. For example, limiting transfers to one every X days per user (or per source funding account), not allowing them for 6 months after purchase, adding something to the terms clearly saying "services are not for resale" or "end-user purchases only", charging a decent fee, making pricing not renewable after transfer (i.e. transfer is only for the remainder of the term), and so on.

  • NoCommentNoComment Member
    edited December 2019

    @FAT32 There are many weird expressions but I think the meaning can get across fine. This part however may be confusing:

    1. 您的服务必须是独立的,而不具有任何的附属。若您的服务有附属,那您需要多支付 2 刀

    Maybe you can change it to:

    您的服务的控制面板必须是独立的

    So it is obvious that this refers to solusvm. Great work! Sadly, the hostloc community seems to be pretty toxic so I'm unsure if your work is appreciated there :neutral:

    Thanked by 1FAT32
  • @lowendclient Say, why does checkouts take AliPay and not WeChat Pay anyway? I noticed that some foreign sites have slowly started taking AliPay but WeChat Pay is yet to be a option yet?

  • @smallbibi said:

    So it is obvious that this refers to solusvm. Great work! Sadly, the hostloc community seems to be pretty toxic so I'm unsure if your work is appreciated there :neutral:

    Hopefully they realize that if they continue their "war" that more and more hosts will just stop accepting customers from China, it just isn't worth the hassle.

    Maybe a good idea for the next black friday sale is apart from not offering any (free) support for those deals, also not allowing transfers ;-).

  • @exiust said:

    @smallbibi said:

    So it is obvious that this refers to solusvm. Great work! Sadly, the hostloc community seems to be pretty toxic so I'm unsure if your work is appreciated there :neutral:

    Hopefully they realize that if they continue their "war" that more and more hosts will just stop accepting customers from China, it just isn't worth the hassle.

    Maybe a good idea for the next black friday sale is apart from not offering any (free) support for those deals, also not allowing transfers ;-).

    They did the no support thing last year, I personally didn’t really like it (I open tickets only when something’s really wrong, but then the last one half ended up my fault, misunderstanding happened) because it felt like a ticking time bomb... (and blocked the one or two tickets I might open during a year..) that I might run into a issue and get billed by Virmach anyway.

    I get where they are coming from, especially with what’s happening at Hostloc, but it didn’t really sit all that well for me.

    I use a carrier that has no phone numbers (if your Canadian, you’ll know which one I’m talking about.. Even Fizz has a phone line... but then it’s Videotron in Quebec) so you can’t call them for help but at least I can send them a message on their official website’s forums/community. If I really need it (last time I contacted them was incorrect amounts billed to me), I can reach them but patience is still key.

    Maybe make it so there’s a priority called “Special people offers” (they really are “special” people shitting on a host that’s charging you almost nothing like that, someone still needs a bottomline...) and make three BIG RED prompts saying the ETA for the initial reply on the ticket be like 2 weeks or even a month, if it still becomes a issue. I imagine it doesn’t take Virmach that long to answer but at least, like my carrier, it’s there when I really need it.

  • @Edmond said:
    @lowendclient Say, why does checkouts take AliPay and not WeChat Pay anyway? I noticed that some foreign sites have slowly started taking AliPay but WeChat Pay is yet to be a option yet?

    Wechat (Tencent)’s account system is really hard to deal with. Even us do not know how to add WeChat payment, unless using third-party access.

    If you are not Chinese company, you can only apply for QR code, which payments flow into your WeChat account, it is hard to monitor (Some use robot to monitor but not stable). And the money in your WeChat account can only withdraw into Chinese bank card.

    AliPay has better APIs and international payment supporting.

  • @lowendclient said:

    @Edmond said:
    @lowendclient Say, why does checkouts take AliPay and not WeChat Pay anyway? I noticed that some foreign sites have slowly started taking AliPay but WeChat Pay is yet to be a option yet?

    Wechat (Tencent)’s account system is really hard to deal with. Even us do not know how to add WeChat payment, unless using third-party access.

    If you are not Chinese company, you can only apply for QR code, which payments flow into your WeChat account, it is hard to monitor (Some use robot to monitor but not stable). And the money in your WeChat account can only withdraw into Chinese bank card.

    AliPay has better APIs and international payment supporting.

    How much does AliPay charge for processing payments? I know Stripe has AliPay AND Wechat Pay support but they charge the same as if it's a credit card, 2.9% + $0.30.

  • lowendclientlowendclient Member
    edited December 2019

    @exiust said:

    @smallbibi said:

    So it is obvious that this refers to solusvm. Great work! Sadly, the hostloc community seems to be pretty toxic so I'm unsure if your work is appreciated there :neutral:

    Hopefully they realize that if they continue their "war" that more and more hosts will just stop accepting customers from China, it just isn't worth the hassle.

    Maybe a good idea for the next black friday sale is apart from not offering any (free) support for those deals, also not allowing transfers ;-).

    Actually that will leave more market spaces for Chinese companies who are building own brands and signing contract with Data-centers directly. Many Chinese companies have better ways to deal with dispute and Chinese customers. However, the price will be much higher, and Chinese customers don’t trust Chinese companies.

    I’m thinking if I register a company in Seychelles, rent Data-center spaces in CoreSite LA1, use my own servers, direct access to Chinese routes (China Telecom / China Unicom / China Mobile), serve Chinese customers according to our rules (in service), will it works on well?

  • lowendclientlowendclient Member
    edited December 2019

    @Edmond said:

    How much does AliPay charge for processing payments? I know Stripe has AliPay AND Wechat Pay support but they charge the same as if it's a credit card, 2.9% + $0.30.

    For people who inside China it costs payee 0.1%, others I don’t know.

  • VirMach said: 5. You must provide photo ID,

    This is onerous for a PayPal verified account.
    The only photo ID I give out is to the passport & driver licence authorities - both government bodies.

  • lowfrontlowfront Member
    edited December 2019

    So the Chinese bots won all the sales. Customers that would have happily paid didn't get the chance to. Now all the sales have been sold to bots that will not be paying and doing charge backs. What a mess and waste of time.

    VirMach provides great service I hate to see this.

    Thanked by 2corbpie seizure
  • @lowendclient said:
    @VirMach @FAT32
    I translate back some main viewpoints from Chinese community which casued most quarrels:
    3. Some users argue that Virmach suspended their machine and costs them $25 because of resource over-usage after once warning. The reason of over-usage is because of under attack or compile runtime environment, they think these are rational use, Virmach cost $25 for no extra expenses on their own is too stingy.
    (I suggest Virmach to give users a way to backup all their data on suspended machine, so they can choose to leave without purchasing $25)

    I've compiled some stuff (including CentminMod) on various @VirMach single vcpu setups and never got any warnings. I dont think you can get your VPS suspended too easily just compiling common/rational stuff

    Thanked by 1tetech
  • @VirMach said:
    For your enjoyment, our very well thought out essay response:

    I only opened this image to see if there is any hidden egg.

  • @FAT32 said:
    @VirMach Someone from HostLoc would like to suggest some ways to solve this issue.

    The current official way to transfer services is fine but they hope that it doesn't involve the taking of photo ID because of privacy issue.

    In addition, a better way in their opinion to solve the changing of email address can be done by phone verification (2FA). It will requires the SMS code to change their email address. If they can't provide the code, then only a photo ID is required.

    Lastly, they hope that the transfer process can be automated with fees (such as fixed $3 per service + 10% of that service) or something like that.

    It seems like they don't mind completing the KYC verification, which includes submitting a copy of their id + selfie, when opening a crypto exchange account just to claim free crypto.

    Just add watermark to the photo, vir can't do much with it but to delete them after verification.

  • @lowendclient said:

    @TimboJones said:

    Bottom line, your comments come across as tone deaf and ignorant of the problems.

    Sentences in () are my comments, remains carried from others.

    Whatever you said, Hand-hold ID photo is still unacceptable in a large amount of Chinese customers, that's the fundamental difference. There can be other ways instead of that for real-name authentication, PayPal itself is one, we do need real bank card to register.

    For dealing, some rather give up 'future support responsibility' to exchage for free transfer ablitiy. Guarantees you said vail in the U.S. did not apply to China, even we can sue in U.S. when dispute happens, most Chinese do not have the chance flying to the U.S..

    I used to do hosting business, pack customer website+data per week and open download to them in the control panel. Of course it is different with VPS, but I think it may be a reference. Whatever I'll say nothing if my VPS suspended by Virmach, they stipulated in the TOS, just others think the price for unlock is too high.

    I understand Virmach do business for people from all countries, but the thing I'm discussing is the conflict between Virmach and users from Chinese hosting forums. I just explaining the huge gap between the way of your understanding between us, whatever you say to me, the gap still exists. Until Virmach do some change, there will still be conflicts and disputes.

    But are perfectly fine with living in surveillance state? I'd believe that if there was more pushback against the government. It's not clear to me what exactly is the issue with photo ID. The hassle, the potential misuse of it? Ugly faces? Do people where hoods to prevent their faces from being seen with companies they do business with in person?

  • TimboJonesTimboJones Member
    edited December 2019

    @lowendclient said:
    @tetech @Edmond @FAT32 @VirMach

    Topics I just saw, good enough to explain our way of understanding:

    "Buy / Sell activities can increase visibility of the brand, of course benefits the hosting company."

    "Virmach increase the difficulty of transfer because they want more people leave their VPS unused (Lots of Chinese buy VPS just for hoarding until it can be sold in a good price), so it can reduce the load of the server (To sell more to the others)."

    Expecting a portion to idle is exactly how prices can be low. I thought this was pretty well known and expected.

    You can see everthing in our culture can be hooked with profits, the rules you formulated we don't think it is guarantees or what, just greedy capitalists' trick to earn more money.

    So there will be a long time to deal with the gap, explain to me is useless :lol: I'm going to lunch...

    Glad I don't need to do business with China.

  • I haven't logged in to my account since sniping deals, thanks @VirMach for fronting up on BF/CM even though as per usual the aftermath is carnage.

  • @VirMach said:

    @FAT32 said:

    @VirMach said:
    For your enjoyment, our very well thought out essay response:

    You might want to remove your IP.

    Edit: Removed on behalf of you

    Good luck, I'm behind 7 proxies.

    Yeah, and they're all in Buffalo :P

    Thanked by 3imok FrankZ uptime
  • MasonRMasonR Member
    edited December 2019

    As an ignorant Westerner, it's interesting seeing the Chinese community's uproar over the picture ID requirement for transfers "for privacy reasons". Like mate... you live in China, what privacy are you talking about?

    Edit: I wouldn't be willing to hand over my ID willy nilly on the net either, but I just found that part funny.

  • MasonR said: As an ignorant Westerner, it's interesting seeing the Chinese community's uproar over the picture ID requirement for transfers "for privacy reasons". Like mate... you live in China, what privacy are you talking about?

    Those VPS provider could be another Chinese or even China Gov, "for privacy reasons" means they don't trust you...

  • @webdev said:

    MasonR said: As an ignorant Westerner, it's interesting seeing the Chinese community's uproar over the picture ID requirement for transfers "for privacy reasons". Like mate... you live in China, what privacy are you talking about?

    Those VPS provider could be another Chinese or even China Gov, "for privacy reasons" means they don't trust you...

    Right, and I get that. I don't trust me either. I'm more commenting on the fact that the user-base that has the biggest issue with the ID requirement are the same users that have their government cataloging them, tracking them though cameras/other biometrics, and has a social credit system scoring them on those public and private actions.

    Not saying you should roll over and accept it, just pointing out the irony.

    Thanked by 1TimboJones
  • MasonR said: Right, and I get that. I don't trust me either. I'm more commenting on the fact that the user-base that has the biggest issue with the ID requirement are the same users that have their government cataloging them, tracking them though cameras/other biometrics, and has a social credit system scoring them on those public and private actions.

    I don't understand your logic, do you mean you and China government are equal, right?

  • @webdev said:

    MasonR said: Right, and I get that. I don't trust me either. I'm more commenting on the fact that the user-base that has the biggest issue with the ID requirement are the same users that have their government cataloging them, tracking them though cameras/other biometrics, and has a social credit system scoring them on those public and private actions.

    I don't understand your logic, do you mean you and China government are equal, right?

    No, it's just interesting to me that privacy is such a high concern when they literally have none in their own country.

  • .> @MasonR said:

    @webdev said:

    MasonR said: As an ignorant Westerner, it's interesting seeing the Chinese community's uproar over the picture ID requirement for transfers "for privacy reasons". Like mate... you live in China, what privacy are you talking about?

    Those VPS provider could be another Chinese or even China Gov, "for privacy reasons" means they don't trust you...

    Right, and I get that. I don't trust me either. I'm more commenting on the fact that the user-base that has the biggest issue with the ID requirement are the same users that have their government cataloging them, tracking them though cameras/other biometrics, and has a social credit system scoring them on those public and private actions.

    Not saying you should roll over and accept it, just pointing out the irony.

    I'm guessing that Chinese citizens don't get HBO and Vice to see their recent reporting on Chinese surveillance. That's mostly why it's fall out of chair funny to me. Not sure if they are just so unaware, or the capitalist propaganda.

    I'm all for a Chinese Revolution. We don't need 1/7th of the planet convinced human rights are bad.

    Thanked by 2MasonR tetech
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