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★ VirMach ★ Black Friday & Cyber Week 2019 ★ RAID 10 SSD ★ KVM ★ Check inside for offers!

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Comments

  • plumberg said: So, how to add swap for install via iso?

    What exactly are you trying to do? You're best off forgetting about CentOS 7 on a 128MB VPS.

    Hmm, weird part is that the Centos7 template works fine for the install. ISO mount and install seems to be stuck. Beats me why. I usually end up setting up FDE on bootup for all VPS. So, was trying that.

  • @plumberg said:

    plumberg said: So, how to add swap for install via iso?

    What exactly are you trying to do? You're best off forgetting about CentOS 7 on a 128MB VPS.

    Hmm, weird part is that the Centos7 template works fine for the install. ISO mount and install seems to be stuck. Beats me why. I usually end up setting up FDE on bootup for all VPS. So, was trying that.

    You can achieve that by partition flipping without doing a reinstall - how much disk space do you have total? But the point is that CentOS 7 is not real usable on 128MB anyway, so what is the ultimate goal after setup is complete. At least it is not as bad as OVZ and you can make a swap file to do a yum update, but still, I would guess that persisting with CentOS 7 isn't going to be fun.

  • @tetech said:

    @plumberg said:

    plumberg said: So, how to add swap for install via iso?

    What exactly are you trying to do? You're best off forgetting about CentOS 7 on a 128MB VPS.

    Hmm, weird part is that the Centos7 template works fine for the install. ISO mount and install seems to be stuck. Beats me why. I usually end up setting up FDE on bootup for all VPS. So, was trying that.

    You can achieve that by partition flipping without doing a reinstall - how much disk space do you have total? But the point is that CentOS 7 is not real usable on 128MB anyway, so what is the ultimate goal after setup is complete. At least it is not as bad as OVZ and you can make a swap file to do a yum update, but still, I would guess that persisting with CentOS 7 isn't going to be fun.

    I hear you. Can you share some tips on flipping the partitions to FDE (without reinstall)?

  • tetech said: so what is the ultimate goal after setup is complete

    idling ofc

    Thanked by 1plumberg
  • FAT32FAT32 Administrator, Deal Compiler Extraordinaire
    edited December 2019

    The war on HostLoc is getting worse... Can you imagine there are posts related to VirMach being posted every 10 seconds? Now I feel like LET is much better lol.

    Kudos to @VirMach on still willing to resolve these issues.

  • @sanvit said:

    tetech said: so what is the ultimate goal after setup is complete

    idling ofc

    Then no longer interested. I know that's something of an obsession here, but makes no sense to me.

    Thanked by 1plumberg
  • @plumberg said:

    @tetech said:

    @plumberg said:

    plumberg said: So, how to add swap for install via iso?

    What exactly are you trying to do? You're best off forgetting about CentOS 7 on a 128MB VPS.

    Hmm, weird part is that the Centos7 template works fine for the install. ISO mount and install seems to be stuck. Beats me why. I usually end up setting up FDE on bootup for all VPS. So, was trying that.

    You can achieve that by partition flipping without doing a reinstall - how much disk space do you have total? But the point is that CentOS 7 is not real usable on 128MB anyway, so what is the ultimate goal after setup is complete. At least it is not as bad as OVZ and you can make a swap file to do a yum update, but still, I would guess that persisting with CentOS 7 isn't going to be fun.

    I hear you. Can you share some tips on flipping the partitions to FDE (without reinstall)?

    Depends on what disk setup you currently have. Shrink filesystem (if xfs then do in-place convert to ext4 since you can't shrink xfs). Rewrite partition table to give you room for another partition. Install OS on new partition and boot into it (several options, debootstrap, pivot_root, etc.). Now original partition is non-root and you can encrypt it. Once encrypted flip back.

    Thanked by 1plumberg
  • Please move your discussion to 2018 thread, thanks

    Thanked by 3uptime imok FrankZ
  • .> @plumberg said:

    @Edmond said:
    Can’t you add 128MB of swap to make the VPS work better?

    I think the biggest limiting factor is most likely the bandwidth. If they said free internal networking at the same location, I’d do it but otherwise... Ouch.

    Well, i could not get to install centos7 via the iso... only the template worked...
    So, how to add swap for install via iso?

    first step is to get boot the "rescue" mode (via SolusVM control panel)

    (... continuing discussion in the One True Thread)

    Thanked by 2plumberg FrankZ
  • lowendclientlowendclient Member
    edited December 2019

    @VirMach @FAT32
    I translate back some main viewpoints from Chinese community which casued most quarrels:

    1. Asking for Hand-hold ID photo is an intolerable behavior, the worst, much worse than scalping.
      (I agree)

    2. Consumers have their rights to buy / sell products they purchased for, as well as modify E-mail address. Dealing with a reasonable price is not scalping, Virmach just make an extra profit from every PUSH action - Rules: Account >= 6 months, cost $3.
      (I think it is acceptable for Virmach to cost $3-$5 from each PUSH, nothing to say)

    3. Some users argue that Virmach suspended their machine and costs them $25 because of resource over-usage after once warning. The reason of over-usage is because of under attack or compile runtime environment, they think these are rational use, Virmach cost $25 for no extra expenses on their own is too stingy.
      (I suggest Virmach to give users a way to backup all their data on suspended machine, so they can choose to leave without purchasing $25)

    4. Scalpers are the guys who won't use Paypal dispute at all. Once they dispute, all their machines under the same PayPal account will be suspended. So most people who dispute are normal users.
      (I agree)

    5. Product dealing can be good for both Virmach and users, Western thinking on business did not fit Chinese customers.
      (In another word, we welcome speculation, even scalpers)

  • I don’t agree with 1) or 2) . An account could be hacked or someone else could use your device maybe and request a transfer. It is there to prevent such things from happening, imagine someone asking to undo the transfer, threatening to sue or whatever. The system is in place so that they can’t fight back the transfer and confirm that it is indeed their action. It also discourages transfer, and I am sure virmach is actually losing money for at least some of the specials they sell. It is better for them that way, fees are fine as is, or can be increased a bit more if needed. I wouldn’t mind. People are just getting too greedy. Not all hosts allow transfer of service, so people should already be grateful that virmach do allow them.

  • lowendclientlowendclient Member
    edited December 2019

    @muffin said:
    I don’t agree with 1) or 2) . An account could be hacked or someone else could use your device maybe and request a transfer. It is there to prevent such things from happening, imagine someone asking to undo the transfer, threatening to sue or whatever. The system is in place so that they can’t fight back the transfer and confirm that it is indeed their action. It also discourages transfer, and I am sure virmach is actually losing money for at least some of the specials they sell. It is better for them that way, fees are fine as is, or can be increased a bit more if needed. I wouldn’t mind. People are just getting too greedy. Not all hosts allow transfer of service, so people should already be grateful that virmach do allow them.

    Enhanced security check like Hand-hold ID can be choose by the customer, if they want, they can even turn on face recognition to keep their account safe. But Virmach just force all to do that, which are unacceptable by us. Most don't care account safety, just wish to have simple way to transfer their products like goods, even if Virmach charges from each transfer.

  • VirMachVirMach Patron Provider, Top Host
    edited December 2019

    For your enjoyment, our very well thought out essay response:

  • FAT32FAT32 Administrator, Deal Compiler Extraordinaire
    edited December 2019

    @VirMach said:
    For your enjoyment, our very well thought out essay response:

    You might want to remove your IP.

    Edit: Removed on behalf of you

    Thanked by 1VirMach
  • @tetech said:

    @Edmond said:
    Can’t you add 128MB of swap to make the VPS work better?

    If you rely on swap then your iops are very likely going to get you flagged.

    plumberg said: So, how to add swap for install via iso?

    What exactly are you trying to do? You're best off forgetting about CentOS 7 on a 128MB VPS.

    Well.. I guess but it might be able to move idle processes in memory into swap and be still acceptable by the host. Virmach does automatically partition your VPS so that there’s a swap partition on it so it’s not like it’s not permitted at all.

    Thanked by 1plumberg
  • @lowendclient said:
    @VirMach @FAT32
    I translate back some main viewpoints from Chinese community which casued most quarrels:

    1. Asking for Hand-hold ID photo is an intolerable behavior, the worst, much worse than scalping.
      (I agree with this)

    A company has the right to set whatever policy they want in order to be satisfied who they are dealing with. If this is 'intolerable' then the customer has the right not to do business with the company.

    It is legitimate to ask VirMach how such personal information is used/retained. Personally I would not send my information to China either, so fair enough, but I also don't complain that I then can't deal with Chinese companies.

    1. Consumers have their rights to buy / sell products they purchased for, as well as modify E-mail address. Dealing with a reasonable price is not scalping, Virmach just make an extra profit from every PUSH action - Rules: Account >= 6 months, cost $3.
      (I think it is acceptable for Virmach to cost $3-$5 from each PUSH, nothing to say)

    Absolutely not. Customers are not buying a product, they are contracting for a service. The customer does not somehow become a part-owner of the server. The customer has a contract which entitles him/her to service for X months for $Y. The contract is between VirMach and the customer, and you can't simply replace one party in the contract with another at will (unless the contract permits assignment).

    If someone thinks they have the right to assign a contract, they fundamentally misunderstand how contracts work in western legal systems.

    1. Some users argue that Virmach suspended their machine and costs them $25 because of resource over-usage after once warning. The reason of over-usage is because of under attack or compile runtime environment, they think these are rational use, Virmach cost $25 for no extra expenses on their own is too stingy.
      (I suggest Virmach to give users a way to backup all their data on suspended machine, so they can choose to leave without purchasing $25)

    Users of any hosting should maintain their own backups at all times. If their backup process is working, why do they need to access a suspended VM?

  • @dTQzBen8 said:

    @plumberg said:
    I got a few beefy VPSs recently, so this was something to try on the other end :cold_sweat:

    Same here. After this attempt I won't buy(or only 1) < 192 MB RAM and 5 GB disk machines, it's a torture.

    @Edmond said:
    I think the biggest limiting factor is most likely the bandwidth. If they said free internal networking at the same location, I’d do it but otherwise... Ouch.

    Yes, I'm wondering whether communicating in same node count as internal networking or not. But I don't have machines in same node so just sad about $1.

    Typically if you use a IP address that’s also accessible from the internet, it won’t be internal networking. Virmach doesn’t assign any other IP address except a public, internet accessible IP address.

    Thanked by 1plumberg
  • VirMachVirMach Patron Provider, Top Host

    @FAT32 said:

    @VirMach said:
    For your enjoyment, our very well thought out essay response:

    You might want to remove your IP.

    Edit: Removed on behalf of you

    Good luck, I'm behind 7 proxies.

  • TimboJonesTimboJones Member
    edited December 2019

    @lowendclient said:
    @VirMach @FAT32
    I translate back some main viewpoints from Chinese community which casued most quarrels:

    1. Asking for Hand-hold ID photo is an intolerable behavior, the worst, much worse than scalping.
      (I agree with this)

    2. Consumers have their rights to buy / sell products they purchased for, as well as modify E-mail address. Dealing with a reasonable price is not scalping, Virmach just make an extra profit from every PUSH action - Rules: Account >= 6 months, cost $3.
      (I think it is acceptable for Virmach to cost $3-$5 from each PUSH, nothing to say)

    3. Some users argue that Virmach suspended their machine and costs them $25 because of resource over-usage after once warning. The reason of over-usage is because of under attack or compile runtime environment, they think these are rational use, Virmach cost $25 for no extra expenses on their own is too stingy.
      (I suggest Virmach to give users a way to backup all their data on suspended machine, so they can choose to leave without purchasing $25)

    1. GTFO. Scalping is a negative thing and hurts everyone, verification is a good thing. Taking a picture is a slight hassle but very much tolerable. I just had to do that to order hash online (I'm Canadian, it's ok) and took maybe a minute. I think that makes me a better customer and reduces risks by the seller, which means lower costs for me and everyone.

    2. No they fucking don't have a right to resell. It's a service, not a good without future support responsibility. Virmach entered into a purchase agreement with you, not some third party. Being able to transfer it is a privilege, not a right. Many products and services are non transferable unless specifically stated so. My high end AKG headphones do not have a transferable warranty, and that's many hundreds more than these servers.

    It's already been stated they lose money on $3 transfer (revenue isn't profit, in case you didn't know), so what you think is acceptable is moot. It's a drain on support resources. Go start your own hosting company and run it how you feel is acceptable.

    1. Which was it, suspended after a warning, or no warning at all? Because that makes sense if the problem isn't resolved and they've already advised on the problem and the action they'll take if the problem reoccurs. That's just logical, not bending over and being stupid. This isn't baseball, no three strikes. When a server gets a warning, that's to prevent many other customers from suffering, so you'll get no sympathy from most people for being a shit disturber.

    Allowing user to retrieve data from a suspended server is just brain dead stupid. It removes incentives to maintain and secure servers and to recover losses when those issues do affect their business. Taking regular backups is the user's responsibility, not Virmach after bad shit happened.

    Bottom line, your comments come across as tone deaf and ignorant of the problems.

  • @Edmond said:

    @tetech said:

    @Edmond said:
    Can’t you add 128MB of swap to make the VPS work better?

    If you rely on swap then your iops are very likely going to get you flagged.

    plumberg said: So, how to add swap for install via iso?

    What exactly are you trying to do? You're best off forgetting about CentOS 7 on a 128MB VPS.

    Well.. I guess but it might be able to move idle processes in memory into swap and be still acceptable by the host. Virmach does automatically partition your VPS so that there’s a swap partition on it so it’s not like it’s not permitted at all.

    Agreed, it is certainly permitted to have swap, and if stuff isn't being swapped in/out very much then it is fine. The issue is that excessive iops is not permitted, and swapping in/out of memory increases iops. It is probably fine if that lasts a little while (like a yum update), but if you add 256MB of swap and then run services on the VM as though it had 384MB of RAM, the iops will go through the roof.

    Thanked by 1plumberg
  • @tetech said:

    1. The customer has the right not to do business with the company.
      That's why they dispute, saw the limit after purchase, want their money back.

    2. Customers are not buying a product, they are contracting for a service.
      I agree, but most think we are buying a product like good, not service. That's the different of comprehence.

    3. Users of any hosting should maintain their own backups at all times.
      Most do not, but not me, I have 3 backups.

  • EdmondEdmond Member
    edited December 2019

    @tetech said:

    @Edmond said:

    @tetech said:

    @Edmond said:
    Can’t you add 128MB of swap to make the VPS work better?

    If you rely on swap then your iops are very likely going to get you flagged.

    plumberg said: So, how to add swap for install via iso?

    What exactly are you trying to do? You're best off forgetting about CentOS 7 on a 128MB VPS.

    Well.. I guess but it might be able to move idle processes in memory into swap and be still acceptable by the host. Virmach does automatically partition your VPS so that there’s a swap partition on it so it’s not like it’s not permitted at all.

    Agreed, it is certainly permitted to have swap, and if stuff isn't being swapped in/out very much then it is fine. The issue is that excessive iops is not permitted, and swapping in/out of memory increases iops. It is probably fine if that lasts a little while (like a yum update), but if you add 256MB of swap and then run services on the VM as though it had 384MB of RAM, the iops will go through the roof.

    Well if some idiot treats swap = RAM then, aside for getting suspended for abuse, it’s simply not going to run well anyway since, no matter how fast your storage drives, it’s going to be slow.

    Your better off finding something that can run on almost no memory but if it’s borderline minimum memory usage, you might be able to scrape by with swap without any abuse of resources.

    It’s simply not feasible even if it was permitted by any host.

    Thanked by 1plumberg
  • tetechtetech Member
    edited December 2019

    @lowendclient said:

    @tetech said:

    1. The customer has the right not to do business with the company.
      That's why they dispute, saw the limit after purchase, want their money back.

    If this is for opening an account and the requirement is not in any published policy or T&C that the user has a chance to know about before paying, then (IMHO) fair enough to ask for a refund, I'd be with you on that.

    If it is for transferring a service, then there is no 'right' to transfer. So VirMach could even say "enough of this, we're completely banning transfers", and since the user was never promised any right to do it in the first place, they have no basis for a complaint. Similarly, if VirMach places any restrictions on transfers, users have no right to object. This is something VirMach allows because they're being nice, not because they're required to by law.

    1. Customers are not buying a product, they are contracting for a service.
      I agree, but most think we are buying a product like good, not service. That's the different of comprehence.

    That may indeed be a misunderstanding which requires some people to learn. But it doesn't change the legal situation that the user has no 'fundamental right' to sell on a contracted service.

    1. Users of any hosting should maintain their own backups at all times.
      Most do not, but not me, I have 3 backups.

    Maybe something else for people to learn. TBF, VirMach says "zero tolerance" on the signup page and publishes their limits in the T&C, so it is difficult for anyone to say their use is 'legitimate' if it exceeds the limits.

  • lowendclientlowendclient Member
    edited December 2019

    @TimboJones said:

    Bottom line, your comments come across as tone deaf and ignorant of the problems.

    Sentences in () are my comments, remains carried from others.

    Whatever you said, Hand-hold ID photo is still unacceptable in a large amount of Chinese customers, that's the fundamental difference. There can be other ways instead of that for real-name authentication, PayPal itself is one, we do need real bank card to register.

    For dealing, some rather give up 'future support responsibility' to exchage for free transfer ablitiy. Guarantees you said vail in the U.S. did not apply to China, even we can sue in U.S. when dispute happens, most Chinese do not have the chance flying to the U.S..

    I used to do hosting business, pack customer website+data per week and open download to them in the control panel. Of course it is different with VPS, but I think it may be a reference. Whatever I'll say nothing if my VPS suspended by Virmach, they stipulated in the TOS, just others think the price for unlock is too high.

    I understand Virmach do business for people from all countries, but the thing I'm discussing is the conflict between Virmach and users from Chinese hosting forums. I just explaining the huge gap between the way of your understanding between us, whatever you say to me, the gap still exists. Until Virmach do some change, there will still be conflicts and disputes.

    Thanked by 1plumberg
  • VirMachVirMach Patron Provider, Top Host

    We've removed the ID requirement and 6 month requirement for Alipay and Cryptocurrency. We still reserve the right to reject transfer with these if we see any potential abuse. We've added a two factor requirement, and "account in good standing" requirement.

    We added some extra clarification as well. Any further feedback appreciated, and this might change.

    To process service transfers securely, we have certain requirements and procedure in place, as well as custom billing fees to handle your request. The sender (you) will be billed a minimum $3 transfer fee, per service, if you wish to proceed.

    SENDER REQUIREMENTS:
    1. You must confirm that you are giving up any duration of service owed to you, permanently, without any refund.
    2. You must have two factor authentication enabled, a verified e-mail, and valid billing information on file.
    3. Your service must be on an independent panel, not combined with other services. If your VPS is combined, there's an additional $2 fee.

    ADDITIONAL REQUIREMENTS (CREDIT/DEBIT + PAYPAL):
    4. You must be a VirMach customer for at least 6 months.
    5. You must provide photo ID, held up to a written message "For service transfer by VirMach" and today's date.
    6. You must have a valid confirmed e-mail address matching your payment e-mail address or instead verify your other e-mail manually.

    RECEIVER REQUIREMENTS:
    1. Must have valid billing information on file and pass fraud checks and have two factor authentication enabled.
    2. Must have valid payment method on file, or a minimum of $5 credits on VirMach account.
    3. Must create a ticket confirming receiving the transfer.

    Both accounts must be in good standing, with no recent abuse or breach of terms of service. We reserve the right to deny a transfer if we do not feel comfortable processing the request, even if requirements are met. In this specific case, we would refund the transfer fee (if charged.) Please note that transfers are done out of courtesy, and we are not obligated to process them.

    If you are certain you and the receiver meet the requirements above, please reply to be billed and begin the transfer process. Any transfer fees are otherwise non-refundable, even if the transfer is not properly completed. We accept no responsibility for any errors in the transfer process that may result in an unexpected outcome, such as other services being transferred on the same SolusVM account, or the sender being able to access receiver's service. We are not responsible for any disagreements in third party agreements pertaining to the transfer. Please wipe any private data off your VPS you do not want shared with the receiver, and have the receiver create a ticket titled "Service Transfer - From Ticket #" to confirm receipt.

    Please also have them copy this message, after reading and understanding it:

    I would like to accept a service from a third party VirMach customer.

    I understand that VirMach is not responsible for any unexpected outcomes resulting from the transfer, or any errors. I understand that VirMach is not responsible for, and will not honor, any third party agreements pertaining to the transfer. Any remaining credits on the service are only provided as a courtesy (and not owed to me.) I understand I am responsible for the service and what occurs on the service, and the payments owed for the service renewal. I understand VirMach cannot verify the specification, pricing, or other details of the transferred service. If I am unsatisfied with any of the details and outcome of the transfer, once it is completed, I understand the only resolution is cancelling the service in a timely manner.

    I confirm that I have valid billing information, and also either $5 of store credit or valid payment method on file.

  • @Edmond said:

    @tetech said:

    @Edmond said:

    @tetech said:

    @Edmond said:
    Can’t you add 128MB of swap to make the VPS work better?

    If you rely on swap then your iops are very likely going to get you flagged.

    plumberg said: So, how to add swap for install via iso?

    What exactly are you trying to do? You're best off forgetting about CentOS 7 on a 128MB VPS.

    Well.. I guess but it might be able to move idle processes in memory into swap and be still acceptable by the host. Virmach does automatically partition your VPS so that there’s a swap partition on it so it’s not like it’s not permitted at all.

    Agreed, it is certainly permitted to have swap, and if stuff isn't being swapped in/out very much then it is fine. The issue is that excessive iops is not permitted, and swapping in/out of memory increases iops. It is probably fine if that lasts a little while (like a yum update), but if you add 256MB of swap and then run services on the VM as though it had 384MB of RAM, the iops will go through the roof.

    Well if some idiot treats swap = RAM then, aside for getting suspended for abuse, it’s simply not going to run well anyway since, no matter how fast your storage drives, it’s going to be slow.

    Your better off finding something that can run on almost no memory but if it’s borderline minimum memory usage, you might be able to scrape by with swap without any abuse of resources.

    It’s simply not feasible even if it was permitted by any host.

    Right, and my expectation would be that putting CentOS 7 on a 128MB+swap VPS means that swap would be used so much that it is almost treated as RAM. Maybe slight exaggeration.

    Thanked by 1plumberg
  • VirMach said: 4. You must be a VirMach customer for at least 6 months.

    Seems a bit odd that this requirement is removed mostly for non-US customers (who I'd assume are likely to use credit card/PayPal). I'd imagine this will significantly increase the number of transfers, but maybe I don't know anything.

  • lowendclientlowendclient Member
    edited December 2019

    @tetech @Edmond @FAT32 @VirMach

    Topics I just saw, good enough to explain our way of understanding:

    "Buy / Sell activities can increase visibility of the brand, of course benefits the hosting company."

    "Virmach increase the difficulty of transfer because they want more people leave their VPS unused (Lots of Chinese buy VPS just for hoarding until it can be sold in a good price), so it can reduce the load of the server (To sell more to the others)."

    You can see everthing in our culture can be hooked with profits, the rules you formulated we don't think it is guarantees or what, just greedy capitalists' trick to earn more money.

    So there will be a long time to deal with the gap, explain to me is useless :lol: I'm going to lunch...

    Thanked by 1Edmond
  • Don't buy vir anymore.

  • @jimi said:
    Don't buy vir anymore.

    That's right, buy VirMach instead.

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