New on LowEndTalk? Please Register and read our Community Rules.
All new Registrations are manually reviewed and approved, so a short delay after registration may occur before your account becomes active.
All new Registrations are manually reviewed and approved, so a short delay after registration may occur before your account becomes active.
netcup - did not follow cancellation procedure and now keeps on receiving invoices
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
You obviously haven't read this thread carefully before posting, just like you didn't read another thread carefully before posting "$360 for 3L.Com". Try to stop hallucinating.
And you don't see nothing wrong here? Business with negative emotions towards clients, some sort of 'revenge' via debt collectors, innability to adopt practices which are standard for giants like Hetzner -> if customer does not pay than auto-cancel contract and carry on.
I believe those policies are in place just to f*ck up those customers which has no time to read them. "Let's make extra buck from this fool" attitude. Wrong. Ditch and never go back.
You gotta be kidding me. These are not standard practices beyond a low-end market.
All I'm saying is that had he apologised in the ticket and asked for help instead of demanding OP would have fared far longer way and I'm confident it would have been easier on the OP's wallet.
Since you're so certain about how Hetzner would react, why not test them? Sign up for a server, don't pay the invoices for a few months, and don't cancel. Then let us know what happens. (Until then, it's idle speculation.)
It's a German thing. Contracts and money are serious things here. If you refuse to pay someone the money you owe them, they can confiscate your stuff and/or send you to jail. It's 100% normal in Germany that even one (1) unpaid Euro goes to debt collectors.
As a German you get used to it and cancel everything right after ordering it. For instance, I cancelled my contabo VPS immediately, just to make sure I won't have to pay for another month, if I don't want to keep it.
On the contrary, I have a lot of unpaid invoices. Both as a provider, and as a client. And I believe there are a lot of provider here on LET that have clients with unpaid invoices. But instead of emailing the client and increasing the invoice exponentially every month, they will just automatically cancel the service, delete the data and use the freed resources for another client.
They don't give a shit about client who obviously didn't want to continue using their service. It's just not worth their time to ask the said client to pay for the invoice for every fucking month. But apparently netcup do give a shit about this kind of client.
This is not the first thread about "netcup unsual way of cancelling order". And I have yet to see this kind of thread about, Clouvider, DO, Vultr, Hetzner, Virmach, OVH, Arubacloud or others. Or perhaps that's how it really works for every company in Germany (increasing the unpaid invoices exponentially every month).
I'm pretty sure this is standard across Europe and potentially entire West ;]
I'm not sure that it's only a German thing (contracts and money), but how quickly and often debts go to debt collectors no doubt varies from country to country.
You can cancel a NetCup server with one button in their control panel. No faxing or mailing.
To be fair, sometimes netcup email is confusing. OP is not the first one who confuse the "The refund procedure" VS "The Cancellation Procedure". When netcup ask the OP for the documents, it was for the "Refund Procedure". But OP never intend to, or want to get a refund. He just want to cancel his service, so he assume, that's is a fucked up procedure just to cancel a service.
And again, OP is not the first one who confuse about these 2 procedures.
You're right, and I suspect that there were also language communication issues, which didn't help.
But the main problem is not that the OP was confused about these two procedures at the beginning (back in May).
The main problem is that he waits months and then opens a potentially damaging thread and then doesn't even seem to understand (or to want to understand) what he hasn't understood. This is a hopeless situation.
Just to be clear , I am not defending OP. In this case , OP is clearly on the wrong side by waiting this long.
I just stated my opinion , netcup shouldn't have gone to this extend just to ask some random dude on the internet which is clearly doesn't want to use their service.
If we talk about who's right and who's wrong, netcup obviously on the right one because they have the almighty TOS on their side.
As a non-German who's lived in Germany for years, I agree with you and can attest that this is true. It is a German thing. But it's not simply about contracts and money being serious. These things are also serious in other countries. Germany is not exceptional in that regard.
Rather, the issue is how the contracts are structured. German companies are notorious for creating non-flexible and consumer-unfriendly contracts with long notification periods for cancellation. Why do they do this? It's not a question of practicality -- they do it because they can. German consumers expect it -- in their mind, it's normal and has always been done like that. Nearly every recurring contract is like this. And it doesn't have to be that way.
I try to support companies with a more customer-centric view in the hopes that these policies will slowly take over, and the old style contracts will die. It's simply a question of flexibility and reasonableness in dealing with clients.
None of this excuses the original poster, who surely is at fault for not reading and understanding what he agreed to. Everyone has that responsibility. But every time I see one of these posts, I'm reminded of the German "tradition" and feel that some modernization could really help everyone.
I use Hetz 5 years now and counting. Multiple servers cancelled without any button pressing, just payment not submitted. Same with their cloud.
As I said much earlier in this thread, the OP didn't provide all of the details, so it's hard to know what exactly happened (other than that it took the OP three months -- until the end of August -- to locate the cancellation button in the control panel).
I'm also a bit puzzled why netcup hadn't already terminated the service before the OP clicked on the cancellation button, but I suspect that it's because the OP paid the first invoice (for the first month), and so netcup was still assuming good faith on the part of the OP and didn't terminate his service immediately after the second invoice wasn't paid (which is not what most low-end providers would have done).
In sum, you can say that netcup should have acted like a low-end provider (and that it's a negative point that they didn't), but you can also say that they attributed good faith to the OP (and that it's a positive point that they did).
Am not sure that we want to go down that road in this thread ... yes, no doubt that there are cultural differences between countries ... and it may be the case that debts are pursued more systematically in Germany than in some other countries ... but at least in the EU, contracts for similar services are similar in many respects, so on paper there aren't significant differences ... I would leave it at that ... at least for the purpose of this thread.
So are you saying that you've had multiple servers at Hetzner over a number of years and that you have never ever once explicitly cancelled a server? That is, you've never cancelled explicitly and that you always simply stop paying?
Just to point out -- since you appear to be oblivious to it -- that Hetzner's ToS says:
Yes. TOS:
I don't think that 9.3 should be interpreted as overriding 9.2, but I give up.
(I'll concede that Hetzner's ToS is less strict than netcup's ToS in this respect.)
OP isn't damaging Netcup.
This is an advertising thread for them. Negativity, drama, and pointless arguments are what brings in customers nowadays especially in LET market.
Oh really, opposite to you defending netcup fucktards I read this thread very carefully, stop trying to look 'smart' please, because you are that dumb that you didn't even understand that my '360 for 3L' post was sarcasm to bring up attention of mods, and it worked (they changed the subject). Yeah, bringing 'facts' out of context because you lack arguments (lol you needed to check my other posts to make me wrong) is a normal practice of trolls such as you, but this time you picked wrong one, asshole.
There is an easier way to talk to mods. See the "flag" link? Use it. A mod will PM you back in minutes.
Dat was how my affair began with ..., ehm, ... Nevermind. 💋
Yeah, I see, you're a real badass, checked your previous comments earlier just to confirm this, for example, remember when you were spouting nonsense in an exchange with @KuJoe? And then in this thread, playing the I-hate-all-contracts badass, who feels entitled to services but expects them to be contract-free -- something like this, right? You have no love for the OP, you're just using this thread as an opportunity to vent your frustration (anger?) against contracts in general, which limit your sense of entitlement.
Why is this thread still a thing ?
Good question. (Too bad that you can't close it.
)
haha, I would not have closed it tbh, I probably would have sunk it though.
edit: you also assume I do not have about 50 hidden mod/admin accounts
Is it just me or is it always billing that comes up in threads about problems with netcup?
I have had my fair share of netcup and been recommending them in the past and then at some point ceased to do so because they got on my nerves with their "hourly billed" sorta thing. Their servers have however always been performing well and I feel like people still don't know that billing is the only thing to look out for if you are a foreigner and not used to german practices. But even then you can cancel your contract in the cp with a click of a button and pay maximum 2 months (due to that 30 days period thing) as @Falzo already pointed out. What is required in written form and in paper/mail is the document for the satisfaction guarantee and/or Widerrufsrecht which isn't a normal way to cancel your service.
For what it's worth if there is a plugin for this forum software that shows a pop-up to anyone entering a thread about netcup or going to netcup homepage from this forum I'd have the pop-up say "I do understand that netcups billing is different and in order to make use of their awesome specs and pricing I'm fully aware that I will have to deal with it." --> "I agree" .
wanted to try netcup, but decided to not giving them a cent after reading this tread.
Good for Netcup.