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Should we reinstate the account? - Page 3
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Should we reinstate the account?

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Comments

  • My I do believe I got a few bites.

  • deankdeank Member, Troll

    @Lee said:
    I will take 97%, where did I loose 3%?

    L, e, e, thee alphabets, thus 3 point deductions. :D

    Thanked by 1Lee
  • lazyt said: My I do believe I got a few bites.

    Good for you.

  • randvegetarandvegeta Member, Host Rep

    @deank said:
    I agree 97% with @Lee. This thread should have never existed. Shame on the host.

    Shame for what? I revealed no personal details here about the fraudster. Since when was it a faux pas to include an alternative veiw point? You're of course entitled to your opinion and disagree what I may (or may not) have done, but exactly what part is shameful and why exactly should I lose the provider tag? What rules have been broken?

  • deankdeank Member, Troll

    The fact that you don't see the whole affair anything wrong is what saddens me. Lee already pointed out what I wanted to say in a more delicate way, and you are still wondering why?

  • randvegetarandvegeta Member, Host Rep

    deank said: and you are still wondering why?

    Wondering doth butter no parsnips.

  • Client is obviously Chinese by the unreasonable expectation of the service and the action they took

    Thanked by 1lazyt
  • randvegetarandvegeta Member, Host Rep

    doughmanes said: Client is obviously Chinese by the unreasonable expectation of the service and the action they took

    I'm not going to confirm or deny that, but as a Chinese person myself, I am saddened that this is the opinion people have. I'd be offended if I cared... or was a SJW who thinks being offended is a genuine thing...

    Thanked by 1lazyt
  • randvegeta said: but as a Chinese person myself, I am saddened that this is the opinion people have. I'd be offended if I cared... or was a SJW who thinks being offended is a genuine thing...

    Anybody in this industry knows the song of your people "refund now or I dispute!!!"

  • randvegetarandvegeta Member, Host Rep
    edited February 2018

    doughmanes said: your people

  • If they are being intentionally dishonest it would cause a lot more trouble for you if they were your client. Could be a scammer, or could be genuinely apologetic. But with your experience with them so far I would be cautious. Good to hear you are reporting them so they can't scam someone else as easily.

  • XeiXei Member
    edited February 2018

    Why on Earth is this a thread? So unprofessional. Good thing I don't host with Asian companies...asking LET for feedback on how to manage their business. Smh.

  • ClouviderClouvider Member, Patron Provider
    edited February 2018

    doughmanes said: Anybody in this industry knows the song of your people "refund now or I dispute!!!"

    Let's not generalise. I recently had a British who figured it would be prudent to raise a chargeback instead of cancelling their service, before even contacting us. Then surprised we took action against them.

  • randvegetarandvegeta Member, Host Rep

    @Clouvider said:

    doughmanes said: Anybody in this industry knows the song of your people "refund now or I dispute!!!"

    Let's not generalise. I recently had a British who figured it would be prudent to raise a chargeback instead of cancelling their service, before even contacting us. Then surprised we took action against them.

    What kind of action was that?

  • ClouviderClouvider Member, Patron Provider

    @randvegeta said:

    @Clouvider said:

    doughmanes said: Anybody in this industry knows the song of your people "refund now or I dispute!!!"

    Let's not generalise. I recently had a British who figured it would be prudent to raise a chargeback instead of cancelling their service, before even contacting us. Then surprised we took action against them.

    What kind of action was that?

    Suspension of the service, recovery of chargeback fees and costs involved to process it and naturally debt collection to recover all of the above at Customer’s expense, all as per contract naturally.

    We take fraud very seriously and pursue all avenues of recovery against fraudsters.

    Thanked by 1hostdare
  • randvegetarandvegeta Member, Host Rep

    @Clouvider said:

    @randvegeta said:

    @Clouvider said:

    doughmanes said: Anybody in this industry knows the song of your people "refund now or I dispute!!!"

    Let's not generalise. I recently had a British who figured it would be prudent to raise a chargeback instead of cancelling their service, before even contacting us. Then surprised we took action against them.

    What kind of action was that?

    Suspension of the service, recovery of chargeback fees and costs involved to process it and naturally debt collection to recover all of the above at Customer’s expense, all as per contract naturally.

    We take fraud very seriously and pursue all avenues of recovery against fraudsters.

    What do you do with non UK/EU clients who do the same?

  • ClouviderClouvider Member, Patron Provider

    Replace our usual debt collectors with the ones local to the Customer

  • randvegetarandvegeta Member, Host Rep

    @Clouvider said:
    Replace our usual debt collectors with the ones local to the Customer

    Does that actually work?

  • ClouviderClouvider Member, Patron Provider

    @randvegeta said:

    @Clouvider said:
    Replace our usual debt collectors with the ones local to the Customer

    Does that actually work?

    Very often, yes.

    That’s of course if the fraudster is the real card owner playing a victim. If the card was stolen there’s naturally no point in wasting your time.

    No one wants to drag a case to court after committing criminal fraud towards their bank by providing false information to secure chargeback.

  • randvegetarandvegeta Member, Host Rep

    @Clouvider said:

    @randvegeta said:

    @Clouvider said:
    Replace our usual debt collectors with the ones local to the Customer

    Does that actually work?

    Very often, yes.

    That’s of course if the fraudster is the real card owner playing a victim. If the card was stolen there’s naturally no point in wasting your time.

    No one wants to drag a case to court after committing criminal fraud towards their bank by providing false information to secure chargeback.

    I'm surprised it's worth the time or effort.

  • ClouviderClouvider Member, Patron Provider
    edited February 2018

    @randvegeta said:

    @Clouvider said:

    @randvegeta said:

    @Clouvider said:
    Replace our usual debt collectors with the ones local to the Customer

    Does that actually work?

    Very often, yes.

    That’s of course if the fraudster is the real card owner playing a victim. If the card was stolen there’s naturally no point in wasting your time.

    No one wants to drag a case to court after committing criminal fraud towards their bank by providing false information to secure chargeback.

    I'm surprised it's worth the time or effort.

    It’s always worth the time and effort to deal with the fraudster in the right way. Zero tolerance policy towards fraud.

    Allowing the fraudster to run free, with no consequence, is only incentivising them to scam another business, maybe yours will be next.

  • LeeLee Veteran

    randvegeta said: I'm surprised it's worth the time or effort.

    It's worth the time and effort, many who commit fraud (in its many forms) are often likely to tell others about their success which encourages more. Send out a message that you don't just claim to take action but actually do it and others are not so keen.

    Thanked by 2Clouvider hostdare
  • randvegetarandvegeta Member, Host Rep

    @Clouvider said:

    @randvegeta said:

    @Clouvider said:

    @randvegeta said:

    @Clouvider said:
    Replace our usual debt collectors with the ones local to the Customer

    Does that actually work?

    Very often, yes.

    That’s of course if the fraudster is the real card owner playing a victim. If the card was stolen there’s naturally no point in wasting your time.

    No one wants to drag a case to court after committing criminal fraud towards their bank by providing false information to secure chargeback.

    I'm surprised it's worth the time or effort.

    It’s always worth the time and effort to deal with the fraudster in the right way. Zero tolerance policy towards fraud.

    Allowing the fraudster to run free, with no consequence, is only incentivising them to scam another business, maybe yours will be next.

    The "right" way? Ours next? We see enough fraud as it is.

  • randvegetarandvegeta Member, Host Rep

    @Lee said:

    randvegeta said: I'm surprised it's worth the time or effort.

    It's worth the time and effort, many who commit fraud (in its many forms) are often likely to tell others about their success which encourages more. Send out a message that you don't just claim to take action but actually do it and others are not so keen.

    Exactly what actions do you deem as appropriate?

  • ClouviderClouvider Member, Patron Provider

    @Lee said:

    randvegeta said: I'm surprised it's worth the time or effort.

    It's worth the time and effort, many who commit fraud (in its many forms) are often likely to tell others about their success which encourages more. Send out a message that you don't just claim to take action but actually do it and others are not so keen.

    Aye, since we actively started pursuing fraudsters, and that was when one laughed in our face and listed aliases he used to re-open an account after chargebacks when we caught him, we noticed the number of cases fall to almost nil. From a couple a month at peak to <5 a year now.

    Thanked by 1Lee
  • LeeLee Veteran

    randvegeta said: Exactly what actions do you deem as appropriate?

    Depends on the individual case. For example early last year I had a client owing £28, not much, he did a chargeback 2 months after payment claiming he knew nothing about it.

    5 months later, £28 is now £300 with costs for the collection agency applied and a small claims pack prepared. He paid. Tough lesson for him.

    Thanked by 1Clouvider
  • hawchawc Moderator, LIR

    Its more about the principal, then the actual amount.

    Thanked by 4Lee Clouvider Zen MCHPhil
  • EdmondEdmond Member
    edited February 2018

    @randvegeta now I want to buy one just to see what the stupid people are complaining about. I would, but I can't figure out what I'll use with it for afterwards unless the GeoIP is within mainland China.

    It wouldn't make sense to reactivate the client. The client has already costed you more than $6.50 in labor for the dispute anyway. So why reactivate anyway? Would make no sense to me..

  • huntercophuntercop Member
    edited February 2018

    Honest answer? Put your feelings aside. Yes he disputed and he lost, that's fine. He technically still paid for the VPS, and you have a legally binding contract to fulfill said services because the money was not returned to the buyer. Now you do not need to give him extra days unless he asks for it. Then you kind of have to since the service was not available while refund was never issued (dispute irrelevant at this point).

    Your options:
    1. Do not reactivate the account, at this point it is a breach of contract and he can dispute the transaction again. First dispute was wanting a refund. The second dispute will be a failure to deliver services.
    2. Reactivate account, and tell him he will have service till the current renewal date, however, he is not allowed to renew as your terms claim you can terminate any clients (discretion to deny services). However, you will need to update your ToS first. When you tell him this, I would offer a courtesy extension for maybe a week to give them enough time to move things off the VPS if needed. Be a good host, even with a shitty house guest.
    3. Let him re-activate, and continue purchasing more services. Take note of the issue on his internal profile and watch for repeat offenses. If it continues to go south, exercise option 2 above.

    For #2 and #3, I would recommend calling them and having a conversation with them. Tell them the outcome of the dispute, be empathetic and offer to try and understand what actually happened (more likely to get the truth from a conversation), and tell them you will still let them use the service for the period contracted, and you expect him to follow the ToS/purchase agreement moving forward. Be nice about it, tell them that you are always available to answer any questions he may have and he should not hesitate to reach out.

  • @randvegeta said:

    Hoost said: Funny thought but it's quite a different scenario really

    lazyt said: Oh is it really?

    It probably is actually. Service providers are normally (and should be) held to a higher standard than the general public.

    Though I find it interesting that some of the comments here have been quite negative about the idea of inviting the 'client' because they see it as a form of bullying or shaming. And yet, what is the function of services like FraudRecord? Providers use it to report bad clients, and in this case, our client committed fraud by submitting false information to Paypal in order to obtain a refund.

    Perhaps the higher standard for which hosts are held to precludes them from naming and shaming on public discussion forums. Which makes me wonder why FR is different?

    And for my critics, who call me unprofessional, among other things, why fight so hard to protect the fraudsters?

    Interesting what people consider right, wrong, good, bad, professional, unprofessional...

    Because fraud record is not a public forum where everyone can post, bully, and shame. Totally different than LET.

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