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Seeking non-US host with reasonable abuse handling

1356

Comments

  • AvaHostingAvaHosting Member, Patron Provider
    edited April 9

    @WiFi said:

    @AvaHosting said: Anything you should contact us through ticket (best way).

    I have already sent you an email with the link to the site. Please review it and reply there, and give me a brief summary: are you ready to welcome me with open arms, or would it be better for me to keep looking elsewhere?

    Hi.

    We already answered.

    All questions have been clarified from our part.

    Kind Regards,
    Ava.hosting

    Thanked by 1WiFi
  • conceptconcept Member

    @WiFi said:

    Not exactly. I am looking for a hoster that either follows local laws under which free speech and mild trolling or criticism are not considered criminal, or has staff who are willing to understand the user's position and push back against bad actors, or is simply not eager to burden itself with endless communication from people sending complaint emails that do not involve any real threat to the life or safety of innocent people.

    I am willing to respond to abuse complaints, and I did respond to Cloudflare on the merits. But they are the ones not replying, while my clock is still running.

    I would also look at and contact BuyVM, Gigahost, Novogara outside the ones I've already mentioned like VSYS, Mevspace.

    It honestly sounds like if a host allows Tor Exit, they more than likely will allow what you are hosting. Tor Exit providers tend to follow the same guidelines.

    Thanked by 1whynotlearn
  • WiFiWiFi Member

    @whynotlearn said: have you heard from the team at autistici.org?

    This is a very interesting initiative, and I applaud these Italians for it.

    However, I have read both the Manifesto and the TOS, and there are several points where our positions do not fully align. My project is not 100% static, because it includes a form for submitting text and files.

    There are also some nuances regarding personal contact data. I am not fully sure that I comply 100% with item 3 of the Conduct Regulation and Restrictions section. Although the contact details were collected from the internet, nobody gave me explicit permission to redistribute them.

    At the same time, I would not want to live without the ability to receive files, because I want people to send me new information so I can continue building the full picture and learn more about the people who wronged me.

    Thanked by 1whynotlearn
  • @WiFi that's completely fine. I personally like glossing over some free options too.

    As @concept has said though, you are gonna find tons of providers who might be able to help ya, Good luck finding the correct provider mate!

    Thanked by 2WiFi concept
  • @WiFi said:

    @muhbootloader said: Yeah I get why you’re frustrated, but what you’re asking for is basically a host that ignores abuse complaints

    Not exactly. I am looking for a hoster that either follows local laws under which free speech and mild trolling or criticism are not considered criminal, or has staff who are willing to understand the user's position and push back against bad actors, or is simply not eager to burden itself with endless communication from people sending complaint emails that do not involve any real threat to the life or safety of innocent people.

    I am willing to respond to abuse complaints, and I did respond to Cloudflare on the merits. But they are the ones not replying, while my clock is still running.

    I did PM @WiFi and he showed me his project. Out of respect for him, I am not going to reveal his site here, but basically, his concerns are legitimate, the evidence he provides is solid, and he's not the only one who's had trouble with the business that his site is documenting. Nothing on the website isn't already public information; he's just aggregating what's already out there. Very similar situation to me and Host.charity.

  • edited April 9

    @whynotlearn said:
    @WiFi have you heard from the team at autistici.org?

    Also, if its a static web page, I also want to mention https://git.disroot.org/

    They are also similar to autistici.org and with this git provider, you can use their pages functionality to use the static pages and then even hook it up to your custom domain (I hope so I haven't checked)

    Disroot.org is also another activist organization. Hope that these two helps your case!

    Both of these organizations are explicitly political and are not shy about their own left-wing political leanings. Autistici requires you to read and agree with their manifesto (as seen on their homepage) to even make an account, and Disroot, while slightly less extreme out of the gate, is run by and for activists.

    While that doesn't have to be an immediate turn-off, if the project is meant to be a source of neutral information for as many parties as possible (as it is, from my understanding), hosting with Autistici or Disroot may not be the best idea.

    Also, they can kick you off for any reason at any time, particularly if you are hosting with them for free.

  • Yea, I agree, these are activism oriented organizations, as I have said before, I believe that what @concept said is the right way to follow within this situation.

    Thanked by 2ServerBachelor oloke
  • WiFiWiFi Member

    I have a balance with BuyVM, so I will see how things go. I will move the domain somewhere other than Cloudflare and then wait for the first abuse complaint. If BuyVM does not handle it in a way that works for me, I will move on to Ava. All the Swiss hosting providers responded with some version of, “Read the TOS and interpret it yourself.” Orange also replied that they do not answer every customer’s “what if” questions and told me to read the TOS, which I had already done before asking them about two specific subsections.

    So my plan is to burn through the balance at BuyVM until they try to push me out, and then continue down the chain from there.

    Many thanks to everyone for the discussion. You gave me a huge amount of new information, and now I need time to process it and put it to work. You are the best. I am glad someone came up with the idea of creating a project about hosting. It is always very interesting here.

  • edited April 9

    @WiFi said:
    I have a balance with BuyVM, so I will see how things go. I will move the domain somewhere other than Cloudflare and then wait for the first abuse complaint. If BuyVM does not handle it in a way that works for me, I will move on to Ava. All the Swiss hosting providers responded with some version of, “Read the TOS and interpret it yourself.” Orange also replied that they do not answer every customer’s “what if” questions and told me to read the TOS, which I had already done before asking them about two specific subsections.

    So my plan is to burn through the balance at BuyVM until they try to push me out, and then continue down the chain from there.

    Many thanks to everyone for the discussion. You gave me a huge amount of new information, and now I need time to process it and put it to work. You are the best. I am glad someone came up with the idea of creating a project about hosting. It is always very interesting here.

    @Francisco is a solid. You'll be in good hands.

    Worth noting that BuyVM was (semi) recently acquired by Cloudzy.ai. I don't believe service quality or "law of the land" content policy have changed, but Francisco has more details here:

    https://lowendtalk.com/discussion/201647/for-immediate-release-buyvm-joins-cloudzy-ai/p1

    Thanked by 3WiFi whynotlearn lothos
  • WiFiWiFi Member

    BTW, domain purchasing, management, and transfers have been disabled on my account. Because of that account restriction imposed by Cloudflare, I cannot transfer my domain. All of this happened over a single small claim submitted in plain text by essentially nobody.

    My experience with Cloudflare was very brief. One week was enough for me to understand that this was the last time I would use them.

  • WiFiWiFi Member
    edited April 9

    @ServerBachelor said: Worth noting that BuyVM was (semi) recently acquired by Cloudzy.ai.

    I did not know that. Thank you for the link.

    So now I understand that BuyVM and Frantech.ca are essentially the same company, and that they may soon be moving out of the Luxembourg location. Well, that is not too bad either, a location change right in the middle of dealing with complaints.

  • @WiFi said:
    BTW, domain purchasing, management, and transfers have been disabled on my account. Because of that account restriction imposed by Cloudflare, I cannot transfer my domain. All of this happened over a single small claim submitted in plain text by essentially nobody.

    My experience with Cloudflare was very brief. One week was enough for me to understand that this was the last time I would use them.

    I think that another lesson is also to not put all your eggs in one basket. Cloudflare is sometimes good sometimes bad but I believe that you had used both hosting/domain at cloudflare if I am correct and they disabled your account because of the hosting concern which then went onto domain too.

    For most normal things cloudflare is sometimes good but I haven't done anything ever similar to your situation so I am not sure how cloudflare responds to that.

    It does seem a bit not-legal for cloudflare to simply remove the ability for you to transfer though, not sure.

  • conceptconcept Member

    @WiFi said:

    @ServerBachelor said: Worth noting that BuyVM was (semi) recently acquired by Cloudzy.ai.

    I did not know that. Thank you for the link.

    So now I understand that BuyVM and Frantech.ca are essentially the same company, and that they may soon be moving out of the Luxembourg location. Well, that is not too bad either, a location change right in the middle of dealing with complaints.

    They are already moved out to Switerland from Lux. Buyvm + Fiberhub (Their Las Vegas colo provider) are both are pro free speech

    Thanked by 3oloke whynotlearn WiFi
  • WiFiWiFi Member
    edited April 9

    @concept said: They are already moved out to Switerland from Lux. Buyvm + Fiberhub (Their Las Vegas colo provider) are both are pro free speech

    GeoIP says AS53667 PONYNET - FranTech – Luxembourg, Luxembourg. Checked with 3 different GeoIP services.

  • conceptconcept Member
    edited April 9

    @WiFi said:
    GeoIP says AS53667 PONYNET - FranTech – Luxembourg, Luxembourg. Checked with 3 different GeoIP services.

    Here is where it is mentioned

    @Francisco said:

    @n00klear said:
    Is there any update on when Lux will move to CH?

    Finished months ago.

    Francisco

  • olokeoloke Member, Host Rep

    @WiFi said:

    @concept said: They are already moved out to Switerland from Lux. Buyvm + Fiberhub (Their Las Vegas colo provider) are both are pro free speech

    GeoIP says AS53667 PONYNET - FranTech – Luxembourg, Luxembourg. Checked with 3 different GeoIP services.

    Check the individual IPs of theirs.
    https://ipinfo.io/AS53667 - ASN registered in USA
    https://ipinfo.io/AS53667/104.244.72.0/21 - IP range registered to LU
    https://ipinfo.io/104.244.72.1 - Individual IPs (and servers) in CH

    Thanked by 1concept
  • WiFiWiFi Member

    @concept said: Finished months ago.

    So this ASN is now in Switzerland, and the records simply have not been updated yet, correct?

  • @WiFi said: free speech and mild trolling or criticism

    This may be a problem. You see, the way free speech works is interesting. This is not an absolute term. Your freedom is speech finishes where my begins. In most countries (if not all) there is no legal definition of trolling. What is mild trolling? And to whom exactly it is mild? What if it is not mild to me? Will it account to defamation?

    Criticism is kinda ok but in order to conclude we need a specific example.

    It all started with 'I am fighting with a scam company' and now there are tones like 'trolling'. What do you have in your other sleeve?

  • FranciscoFrancisco Top Host, Host Rep, Veteran

    @WiFi said:

    @ServerBachelor said: Worth noting that BuyVM was (semi) recently acquired by Cloudzy.ai.

    I did not know that. Thank you for the link.

    So now I understand that BuyVM and Frantech.ca are essentially the same company, and that they may soon be moving out of the Luxembourg location. Well, that is not too bad either, a location change right in the middle of dealing with complaints.

    GEO is always slow to update, but we haven't been in LUX since July of last year. There's no secret handshake to get provisioned there or anything like that. Its not a POP any longer, nor will be one in the future.

    @ServerBachelor said: Worth noting that BuyVM was (semi) recently acquired by Cloudzy.ai. I don't believe service quality or "law of the land" content policy have changed, but Francisco has more details here:

    Correct, nothing changed in that regard. Hannan fully agrees with those policies and has no problems with them.

    @WiFi said: BTW, domain purchasing, management, and transfers have been disabled on my account. Because of that account restriction imposed by Cloudflare, I cannot transfer my domain. All of this happened over a single small claim submitted in plain text by essentially nobody.

    Once NameCrane/BuyVM offers domains we won't be the cheapest, we aren't going to give you "$0 markup" domains. We'll be a few dollars more, but we'll do a much better job of protecting users from BS claims.

    I can understand why Enom/CF/etc are quick to yeet users or share details when they're making no margin, or maybe $1.

    Francisco

    Thanked by 1concept
  • conceptconcept Member
    edited April 9

    @oloke said:

    @WiFi said:

    @concept said: They are already moved out to Switerland from Lux. Buyvm + Fiberhub (Their Las Vegas colo provider) are both are pro free speech

    GeoIP says AS53667 PONYNET - FranTech – Luxembourg, Luxembourg. Checked with 3 different GeoIP services.

    Check the individual IPs of theirs.
    https://ipinfo.io/AS53667 - ASN registered in USA
    https://ipinfo.io/AS53667/104.244.72.0/21 - IP range registered to LU
    https://ipinfo.io/104.244.72.1 - Individual IPs (and servers) in CH

    ipinfo is great because it will use it's probes to ping the IP and tell you where it is.
    Shoutout to @Operable4829
    https://lowendtalk.com/discussion/198301/we-operate-720-servers-and-we-are-happy-to-buy-more/p1

    Thanked by 2oloke Operable4829
  • NyrNyr Community Contributor, Veteran

    So I took a look at the site which @WiFi has sent me.

    I am surprised to see that it looks "legit" in the sense that it looks to be a site created by some disgruntled customer with some proof (but not 100% verifiable, there is a chance it could be a competitor).

    BUT the site is DEFINITIVELY illegal in Europe. Could be legal in the US, it is on the edge as far as I can see.

  • matze00matze00 Member

    ihostart.com seems to not really care abou DMCAs.

    We ignore DMCA, DMCA is an American law, not a European one, any person has the right to see free entertainment on the internet or access to education, to projects like z-library or annas-arhives!!!

  • buzzyLETbuzzyLET Member

    @OpaqueRegistrant said:

    @WiFi said:
    I will resolve the hosting issue one way or another. In the worst case, there are options like Moldova, Ukraine, and so on, although I am waiting for your options first.

    At the same time, I have another question. The domain is also with Cloudflare. If I remove the content and leave only the domain there with DNS proxying, would Cloudflare still take any action against me? And if so, where would be the best place to move the .COM domain?

    As a rule of thumb, you should never, ever, ever have a domain with Cloudflare unless you're ok that it could suddenly vanish or be redirected to a completely different website or one that impersonates yours.

    can you explain more about this? I thought Cloudlfare was pretty well regarded as a registrar other than the fact that you're forced to use their infrastructure/DNS

  • SaragoldfarbSaragoldfarb Member, Megathread Squad

    @WiFi said:
    BTW, domain purchasing, management, and transfers have been disabled on my account. Because of that account restriction imposed by Cloudflare, I cannot transfer my domain. All of this happened over a single small claim submitted in plain text by essentially nobody.

    My experience with Cloudflare was very brief. One week was enough for me to understand that this was the last time I would use them.

    Escalate it to ICANN (if Gtld). a registrar is in breach with their registrar agreement if they don't allow you to transfer out.

    Point that out to CF at first (just request the EPP code), if they won't comply escalate with ICANN.

  • mike1smike1s Member

    @WiFi said:
    Hello,

    I am looking for a hosting provider that would not react to simple text complaints or vague letters from law firms, or from people presenting themselves as lawyers, meaning ordinary letters without any court involvement or action by government authorities.

    Let me clarify: there is nothing illegal involved. There is a company that, over time, stopped shipping orders but continued taking prepayments. They cheated us out of thousands of dollars. For the past two years, they have not responded to claims or anything else. We left reviews everywhere, contacted the BBB, and so on. In the end, rather than let this go, we created a reveal site exposing them and the beneficiaries of that scam business. There is nothing improper there, just public information we found through Google, along with screenshots of evidence that personally belongs to us.

    Cloudflare suspended our main account after the very first complaint, which they did not even show us, and gave us 48 hours. Meanwhile, the fraudulent company, which is hosted on Fastly, continues to operate. I sent abuse reports to Fastly and GoDaddy, and they did not even reply for six months. Our provider, Cloudflare, took action against us immediately. In other words, without even looking into the matter, Cloudflare is protecting a fraudulent business.

    I do not want to give up, and I want to move the hosting somewhere else, to a place where this kind of complaint would be ignored completely.

    For some reason, Switzerland sounds appealing, but I am open to other options outside the United States.

    The site is a one-page site, so even shared hosting would be enough, or a VPS with around 4 GB RAM and 40GB+ SSD/NVME storage.

    Many hosts in the US (that actually read "abuse" reports and know the laws would have no issue with this. @Francisco @NameCrane would be a solid option most likely. He does have EU servers.

    Thanked by 1OpaqueRegistrant
  • @matze00 said:
    ihostart.com seems to not really care abou DMCAs.

    We ignore DMCA, DMCA is an American law, not a European one, any person has the right to see free entertainment on the internet or access to education, to projects like z-library or annas-arhives!!!

    iHostart is also isn't the most stable or reputable.

  • matze00matze00 Member

    i head some stuff about ihostart. and yes their uptime is not the best. but OP wants to host a semi legal website. so you have to make compromises.
    ony my opinion.

  • @matze00 said:
    i head some stuff about ihostart. and yes their uptime is not the best. but OP wants to host a semi legal website. so you have to make compromises.
    ony my opinion.

    I saw his website. Nothing on it is "semi-legal." It is 100% public info. There's no need to turn to iHostart.

    Thanked by 1lothos
  • matze00matze00 Member

    so then he can use any provider like netcup, ovh,..

  • WiFiWiFi Member

    I removed all Cloudflare-dependent code, disabled R2 Storage, set up another host, and migrated the site there. But Cloudflare has still not responded to my requests after 24 hours. Impressive.

    They instantly restricted ALL operations for ALL of my domains, before even receiving any explanation from me. And now they are simply not responding. That says a great deal about them and makes me think very seriously, going forward, about project architecture and whether Cloudflare should be part of it at all.

    Now I cannot redirect the domain. The grand finale would be if they seized it and re-registered it in their own name, like Njalla. LOL.

    Thanked by 1OpaqueRegistrant
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