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https://zencapital.substack.com/p/sad-story-of-my-google-workspace
Not the thousand dollar horror story but this is literally 2-3 days ago. I think that the thousand dollar horror story was about some german company (I can be wrong though, I usually am) using google workspace if I remember correctly and if I am not inflating it with google's other subpar products like gcp which has people losing thousands of dollars too.
If you have never needed Google support, great, because don't rely on Google support otherwise its a sunk boat nowadays unless you beat drums of it online.
Also:
Do we have the same internet lol, I swear I hear some google support nightmare support atleast once in a week or two.
I have actually talked to them once or twice but not in a situation like that, they were nice and helpful though.
Obviously that shouldn't be something that happens ever but I'm not going to move just because of it.
Vouch for @TNAHosting , Im not at the rate of 500 mail per hours but his DA server work and as long as your mail not spam he would be happy ig.
Hm, could be, I still believe that they are a bit of gamble relying their customer support but hey,atleast its good to know that you are getting support :-)
Same here. Im one of the early adopters as early as 2016. 10 years , if i wanna jump i would have done so already. Im solo user mostly for my self hosted apps, it just works for the price i consider very reasonable.
I have run my own mail server for over a decade, after about a decade of just using gmail and hating it. The gmail was just because my mail server disk hosted at home died once when I was literally the opposite side of the world for a month (UK vs NZ) and I needed to get something working asap, and then I just kept using it for a while.
But those early times were very different to now (back in the early 2000s, I had an opt-in mailman mailing list with about 6000 subscribers and 100+ messages per day, all running from a home server with zero deliverability issues at all!)
Admittedly, now I have a fairly limited set of people I regularly e-mail so I don't have up-to-date experience with many of the bigger e-mail hosts, and I've had the same outgoing SMTP IP for about 4 years now so the ones I do send mail to have probably whitelisted me by now, but I've certainly never noticed any issues with undeliverability. My primary client is on Exchange, and it seems that the Microsoft servers are happy to trust my IP even though OVH as a whole is frequently on blacklists, and similar with gmail.
I'm on my second mxroute subscription, but only ever sent about 4 mails total through either account. I only got it because I'm planning to shift my company's business model from B2B to customers, and so I'll have a broader range of places I'll need to be able to deliver to, and only ever planned to route via mxroute for domains that have rejected mail from my own mail server. MXRoute terms are quite clear about it being for transactional mails, so even with deliverability issues, I'd only ever plan on send mailing list traffic via my own server, and just use mxroute for signup and password link emails. I'll be experimenting with that in the future when the product actually launches and I get people trying to sign up from all over the place (hopefully).
The incident you are describing of the server dying and being on the other side of the world is one of the issues with self-hosting. One needs to be always available to fix issues, which is not viable if email is important, or even mission critical as in my case.
That one has not noticed issues with deliverability does not mean that they do not exist. I suggest using https://glockapps.com/ to test, and you will be surprised at the amount of destinations that your personal mail server can not reach.
Also, lots of mail servers do not actively reject mail, but silently drop it. So you will never know that important piece of email was not delivered, and your server will not be able to attempt redelivery via a external service.
Something like self hosting incoming mail, and farming out outgoing (legit, non-spam) to MXRoute or another provider while also letting that provider be the 2nd delivery option is the way I've gone for years without issue. If I'm overseas, most of the time I'll temporarily make MXRoute the main incoming server just in case. Best of both worlds.
Sure, and if you are working with email and your server goes down, then priority #1 suddenly becomes fixing the mail server.
No matter if you are at home, at the office, traveling for a week, or at the beach. Your email is down and it will not be available until you can diagnose the issue and take appropriate action. Very convenient.
Yeah, absolutely. It's been on my to-do list to add a VM onto at least 2 of my other dedis and route some mail through them, but it's always a lower priority that stuff which earns money, so I haven't got around to it yet.
Yeah, however, I know that the important mail has been received because people are replying to it and actioning it. Will try out that site you recommended (but I'd also be worried that it might lead to an influx of spam to the address I use!)
As above, I'm happy with deliverability for personal e-mails and to my primary client (responsible for about 90% of current revenue), but for the growing business the majority of outgoing e-mails will be sign-up links and login authentication codes. Obviously, if these codes gets used, then that's a clear sign it was delivered (especially as I already have protection against just crawling the links) and when those codes aren't used I guess I'll build some heuristics to decide whether to send the next email via mxroute or not. Obviously, I might get some false errors on that just from people not waiting for the codes and giving up, but that would just push me to use mxroute more than might be required, so not disasterous. If it all goes horribly wrong, I'll just move all those mails to mxroute or look into another solution at that point.
But all good points. Really, all I was trying to do was provide a data point for what seems to be successfully running my own server, without any known mail loss albeit to a limited set of target domains. I'm well aware than many people advise against it though, so I got mxroute as a backup option whenever I see it might be failing.
Literally never been an issue. If my self-hosted server goes down, MXRoute starts receiving the mail instead. I don't use webmail, and all email clients let you check multiple accounts, caching received mail locally. But like I said, when I travel I tend to set the main incoming server to MXRoute just in case.
If it's mission critical you better not have a single-server set up to begin with.
But that goes both ways - if you use a third party, you can never be sure that you are receiving that important piece of email that was sent.
That is not "self hosted" but "partially self hosted". And a super weird approach which assumes that you are not managing folders, filters, spam training, contact sync... among many other stuff.
This is the weirdest setup I have read in quite a while, wow.
Guys, self-hosting email is just not worth the risk. Please, if you have spotted good alternative: share it.
I'am working as email admin in very large ISP. Doing that only 12 years, but I can say that it is insanely hard to properly manage email server (and all chain of it). If you can successfully, stress-free manage it your-self - hat off, you are true postmaster.
I couldn’t agree more with @Nyr that running a self-hosted mail server is a hassle, it’s just stressful to know that it might go down in the middle of the day or night for whatever reason. When I had my own mail server back in 2014-15, I was already banging my head against a wall with deliverability + spam despite having a clean / non-blacklisted IP and DMARC, DKIM, SPF records all set correctly. I can’t begin to imagine how much harder that is to manage these days.
Since MXRoute and Namecrane are US-based companies and Fastmail is Australian, is there a reliable, privacy forward email host in the EU that complies with GDPR?
I’m intentionally excluding ProtonMail since they’re Swiss and also because their CEO seems to have become a Trump apologist so that doesn’t bode well for privacy.
I’ve been looking at Tuta (formerly Tutanota) and Posteo.de which are German. There’s also Mailfence in Belgium but a few years ago their UI was clunky to use, I don’t know if they’ve revamped it since then. Of course all of those are more expensive than MXRoute or Namecrane.
I don't think it's -insanely hard-
You can setup your own mail server using chatgpt :-D
For outbound emails you can use amazon ses
Honestly it's just self-hosted with a backup to address any potential problems so that I'm never in the situation you originally described.
Most small email hosting providers use the single server setup I am describing, MXroute included. They use what would equate to a single-server setup for hosting the emails.
Sure, you can have backup MX and storage for backups, but other than that, having active redundancy for the main mail server adds lots of complexity and costs (both economical and technical).
How many aliases/domains do you have that you wish for mailing purposes.
Also you can get tutanota account for free.
If you only have 1 domain and want many aliases, depending on the pricing of domain on infomaniak, I feel like it can be good stuff.
You should reconsider your position as it is the best European provider (in my opinion, of course). There are more options, but nothing super good: Infomaniak is worse, Inbox.EU, the German privacy providers are worse... everything else is very subpar.
Developing a good email hosting service is very costly, so there are no "hidden" or "unknown" alternatives.
I have 5 domains, also Infomaniak is a Swiss company.
Personally using proton but its recent proton.me meet being actually under Cloud act and just a shim layer on top of aws/oracle datacenters etc. when they literally promoted it to be the opposite has removed some points from them recently.
Also the time that they refuse to intentionally add monero and so some are paying with card and depending on threat model, there was a recent case around that.
Essentially within all E-mail providers, there is trust factor involved. There is no zero trust thing especially when the protocol itself is inherently insecure for the most part (from my understanding)
What did Switzerland do if I may ask? I think that its better for privacy/atleast comparable to germany/netherlands? Maybe I am out of loop about swiss itself.
We do that and have absolutely no issues at the moment, but we will see once something happens.
Personal stuff runs on Tutanota, imo better Proton.
Swiss courts and Infomaniak aren't really keen on privacy it looks like:
https://lowendtalk.com/discussion/215108/proton-mail-cooperation-helped-the-fbi-reveal-identity-of-stop-cop-city-protester/
https://www.tomsguide.com/computing/vpns/infomaniak-breaks-rank-and-comes-out-in-support-of-controversial-swiss-encryption-law
https://lowendtalk.com/discussion/comment/4752888/#Comment_4752888
https://lowendtalk.com/discussion/comment/4756230/#Comment_4756230
What stack do you use?
Swiss jurisdiction being a privacy friendly place is an old myth.
Just like Germany. Actually both of them are some of the worst regarding internet surveillance.
For what its worth, Germany is part of 14 eyes as well.
https://tuta.com/blog/fourteen-eyes-countries (An article literally by tutanota)
I think that Switzerland might've self sabotaged itself long term by even proposing that new law even if it wouldn't pass because of how decentralized swiss is but people now generally have some less trust within swiss privacy.
I think what I dislike about Tuta is that when I read its articles or read about it, sometimes it feels very snake-oily or something similar to it especially when it comes to quantum encryption.
Personally I like both germany/netherlands.
how so? They are creating an right to encryption iirc, and what are your thoughts on netherlands?