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MXroute no longer seeks or welcomes traffic from lowendtalk.com
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It's none of those. I sent you a PM(to avoid potentially leaking ur info) about the same.
As for the man himself, holy shit.
I was gonna say I personally don't use that guy's service and once I almost did. But something was always off about him even though his services were sometimes cheaper than @Francisco's namecrane. However, due to his general attitude(again, not directly related to an interaction with me) towards others was, what I can sum it up as, bad and unnecessarily argumentative as a LET provider.
Then I decided to read the whole shit.
The doxing is REALLY bad. He did not lookup the info from his DB as @WyvernCo said that he was never the customer, but the way the details were looked up was shady as fuck too. Normally, this is what people call it as "doxing". I can say that with confidence as someone who has worked(although very briefly) with law enforcement.
What he did was really bad and unprofessional. I'm still surprised that nobody has used the word "Karen" in this thread yet because the behavior basically amounts to that.
I also partially agree with that one person who said that given if @WyvernCo had ever registered on MXRoute, I do believe he would've weaponized the customer information to dox him and find his employer and do shit like that.
I'm glad I chose Namecrane over that guy. Great service(close to perfect), decent price and no drama.
Also for some reason, I think he's gonna return once his moodswings are over(days if not months or maybe even in a year). Given what he already did, it's very much possible lol
I agree with the message, but i do have to push back on this.
I could have separated these at the start, even if some of the arguments were about the business handling issues. But then there was the mxroute coupon code thread directly linking the drama back to business, which makes it hard for me to separate them anymore.
That thread, to me, read like a last effort to turn the public opinion regarding that drama against the individuals mentioned and in my opinion, used the mxroute reputation as a shield and to strengthen his side of the argument, which did work for a bit as people were happy about the discount but as the thread continued and the arguments were brought back, he decided to quit the forum.
Not saying that anyone should cancel, or anything like that, but I would not trust mxroute after that.
I think that the worst part is that jar could've simply been silent.
He caused all of this by first talking about how within banning people from service, their reviews play even a marginal role which surprised some people and then he created the is psycho deal and now this and then even writing this trustpilot review.
Nobody questions his service but if he could've just, been silent for sometime and there were multiple times where he doubled,tripled down. He could've simply accepted after he had messed up the first time by saying something like, "I messed up that one time by suspending a service and even taking 0.1% factor of something like a review, reflecting back, I will make sure that from now on, even if someone might leave extremely bad reviews, they can still use the service as I wish to read the reviews and improve them and be better for the people who give bad reviews because they are helping us by telling us the flaws and we wish to improve even more in the future"
A lot, and I mean A LOT of this could've just been prevented by a single message at the right time. I feel like a lot of humanity faces something similar.
I think that there is some weird equilibrium of getting service from, if you get service from LET, then LET drama can be a part of the service which can make or break it, then you have the AWS/Google/Microsoft and somewhere in the middle, you have things like Hetzner/OVH etc.
I remember talking to @default in veloxmedia in some discussion about it and I think that the main consensus was that we wish to support Lowend providers who can be like some of us and I appreciated that sentiment a lot, but these recent incidents kind of show me that, perhaps y'know its a double edge sword if you can talk to a service provider because they can talk back too and yknow drama can emerge and things can go either way (imagine if wyvernco had gotten fired) & (right now, Jar/MXROUTE feeling extremely untrustworthy)
I think that there are some genuine Lowendtalk providers but man, providers need to really chill and back-out sometimes. In that sense, I guess I respect hetzner more because their service rep is pretty chill team and handle most criticisms (for the most part) from their side, fine.
I really love lowendtalk providers but man, a lot of these incidents make me extremely cautious if I ever approach any project professionally in future rather than just tinkering because I like it.
And MXRoute was like a very reputable service, jar was literally the former admin of lowendtalk and if things can go south for someone like him, they really do tell a lot.
@jar could've simply hired a chill guy who could've responded nicely than all of this
MXRoute was a good service because it was independent within the mailing space and it was good, people trusted it. all of this to me personally feels like a million if not a billion dollar blunder from jar, as if you ask me and maybe many others, I had come to know MXRoute before I had known about LET. That speaks something but they butchered it really hard/irrecoverably.
TLDR: Lesson for many people, a lot of this could've been prevented by silence/thinking about what jar was writing once himself just once before clicking post comment. (Just my 2 cents)
Read what is vicarious liability.
I agree with this.
None of that is really how it started. I posted the relevant trigger comment earlier.
Basically, people were attacking some provider for cancelling someone's service and refunding them all the money after they'd complained about it publicly. Jar commented that he'd once done something similar after a customer had caused a lot of trouble breaking the TOS and then then posted a negative review when they were warned. That was the last straw for him, so he cancelled the service and refunded them so he didn't have to deal with them again.
I agree, he probably should have kept silent and never volunteered that information, but for what it's worth, I think he probably did the right thing. If a customer thinks your service is worth the minimum rating possible on a review, plus they've caused you lots of trouble up to that point, it's clear neither side is happy with the business relationship, and ending it and giving a full refund seems reasonable. If the customer wanted the service so much, why were they slating it?
Anyway, that post along with the nuance and explanation, got turned into the one-line "cancelled someone for a bad review", even though that wasn't what he said. He then defended it again, at which point people like @WyvernCo started digging up every single complaint he'd had over the years. Every thread @jar commented in after that, @WyvernCo took the same stuff there and was very literally shitting on every potential customer.
For sure, Jar would have been better not saying anything at all in the first place (because nobody even knew about this incident until he volunteered it), and just let the other provider continue to get bullied instead.
But they point remains that he hasn't (as far as I know), simply cancelled someone JUST for a review. As he said in the original post, that was just the final thing that caused him to decide the business relationship was over.
As for this TrustPilot thing, yeah, that seems like a pretty stupid and immature thing to do. However, people are now accusing him of snooping on people's mails, when it seems that wouldn't explain it because they were never even his customer, so there weren't any mails to snoop.
Blud is really need disconnect from internet for a moment, I know jar was have some weird personality that why I avoided it as my mail server / recommended it from first place.
Also who party think doing dox and orchestra bad behaviour is funny, f*ck off and get some help.
You better read it yourself also
If I start a fight with a bouncer at the bar (my fault or not), bar's owner can't get me fired because I created an event on their premises. It's my personal life.
IF I cause reputation damage to my employer, like if I am wearing my employer's merchandise and act in bad faith, then it's something.
Looks like everyone who has ever said you’d have to be at least a bit crazy to want to run an email service was right.
I'll cancel my account
I agree with you in the sense of trouble caused and I feel like it can be fair but I think what most people really took an issue with was how a bad review can even be even just a minor part of the final decision.
I had read the discussions previously when they had happened, but I will try to read them again when I get more free, so pardon me if I can be wrong about anything.
But I sort of (respectfully) disagree with the framing that its a bit of wyvernco's or forest's fault and especially calling them psycho and now this was an extremely distasteful thing to do.
I think that there was nuance 100% its not black or white but I feel like jar could've genuinely made a nice comment accepting feedback/criticism but I believe he may had some trouble doing that which eventually also caused this final meltdown of MXRoute essentially.
In that sense, there were multiple chances (countless) given to @jar to respond peacefully and stop the drama, especially when it was his reputation / business in the end which was on the line but he really didn't do that and of course even then things could've settled down even after somehow calling these two people psycho, but like jar also didn't need to do the trustpilot thing which you also mention and I think everybody finally once again agrees was an incredibly bad thing to do.
My point, which I wish to stress again, is that, Jar had multiple chances to redeem himself and his service yet each time he kicked the bucket again and again finally leading to him firstly creating a specific deal to call two people psycho and then later write this trustpilot and everything. This feels to be the last kick on the bucket as to me and others, the trust is fundamentally eroded and I understand the nuance but man, jar did have chances countless times yet here we are, so this final outcome also reflects a series of choices that in the end, only he made.
Even if we might disagree on a few things especially about forest and wyvern, I still appreciate your comment because it captures some nuance and was interesting to read and is worth having an discussion over.
The thing is it will be not for you to decide, Mr Also
i feel sad
11 pages of this question yet again.
That being said, there's probably a very good reason @jar has sent that e-mail regarding traffic from LowEndTalk. Or to leave such reviews. You don't usually want to wake up the dead...
On what pertains to anything else, @host_c said it all. Though it must be said I have nothing against @jar, in fact, I do respect him for what he's built, I don't know the guy but that is to be respected, most certainly.
We are missing the other side of the story here and probably very relevant proof of evidence in the process. As per LET tradition.
That being said: leaving a review on an employer of a user is excessive (could even configure GDPR abuse, because why are you using that information?) and I won't even start on creating a promo with a code around two users and calling them psycho... regardless of who they are.
Trustpilot incident aside, he's consistently brought the same level of energy to LET throughout his tenure. You've either said his form of entertainment is not for you, or you think he's exactly the type of personality you want manning the helm.
IMHO, he foresaw this reaction and it's playing out exactly as he hoped.
@Francisco Namecrane stock 📈📈
This should be the red line.
i bet @Fransisco is smiling right now
That happens not because of email, but likely because they announced domain registrations.
I thought that they still have some testing before they officially launc (currently just 1$/yr is just beta-testing within their own private network or something similar) https://namecrane.org/domains/search
but I think that they might launch very soon though which can be interesting to see.
I wonder where jar has been getting advice on this, I fear he may be relying on some kind of AI companion for advice and support.
Anyway the results are catastrophic for him.
you are absolutely right! /s
on a serious note, some of the other people I used to have high respect for whether in this hosting industry or others are also essentially succumbing to some form of AI psychosis so it isn't entirely left out of the table, but right now, its speculation at best.
I'll just say this: Gathering all your customers through LET and then leaving without making a statement is unacceptable. I hope the services continue with the same quality as promised. This lack of trust will cause many LET customers to abandon you.
First, respect the place where you earn your money. Don't let your ego get the better of you just because you're making a lot of money.
Have a good time on the forums...
yes of course, he didn't accidentally write a post on his blog about how horrid let is lol.
Excuse me but, what the fuck.
So far MXroute isn't banning accounts created by LET users.
If he makes users choose between terminating MXroute plan or closing LET account, it would be tough.
I think half of LET already moved to CraneMail over the past 18 months.
We are clutching $3/3y Black Friday plan.
There are also several resellers such as @MichaelCee and @webhorizon locked in.
What would @host_c choose between MXroute and LET?
Oh no