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Flagged for being a dirty weeb
@allthemtings please help me in this campaign
fucking disgusting
Why.... Just why? Production this production that, production what not, the term production should directly be related to daily backups. I mean if I am building something production grade the first thing i do is setup daily offsite backups and better yet multiple offsite backups. Sure host messed up, but where's your production disaster recovery plan? And much are you loosing daily on $5 vps? Yo even think of asking for $8k, that's a big amount to say the least, fuck I can even pay off half my debt with this amount and still have more than enough to pay for my idlers for a couple of years.
I don't understand why people just go without backup for months or even years, just because they can't make backups without being down for maintenance. I guess it's shameful for someone to admit that they don't archive WAL
You had 4 months to back up your work.
Backups are your own responsibility, and sane people back up their important data regularly so they have it in case of data loss.
Your data loss is your own fault, no matter how many mistakes the provider makes.
So stop blaming the provider for your own stupidity.
its simple.
if he had backups, he could not claim $8000
Hi @Mkececi
without doubt that went pretty worstcase.
I can not judge nor do i want to try to how much money you might have lost or not.
But please allow me to give you an advice before you loose even more money:
Naturally if you wont find a solution with @aluy then you might want to sue them at court in germany.
No matter how much you ask them to pay, the german court will ask you:
where this numbers come from. This will have to be proved with invoices or what ever you paid/invested to actually be able to demand compensation ( for this lost investment ).
to proof that you lost this work ( i assume some application / data ) because of the deletion of the server ( were the data at some point even uploaded there? )
if yes, did you destroy the copy you had from where ever you uploaded it? Why did you destroy it?
the project / data were developed on the server? Proof? Why no backup if they have value?
[...]
This will continue like this and essentially it will burn down to a simple fact:
If the data / work / what ever had not enough worth to make a backup, then there is actually no financial damage done by loosing something that was not worth to make a backup of.
In germany you can (usually) not (successfully) claim compensation for a damage that you mainly provoked yourself.
You could, without doubt claim compensation for a lost day as good practice is to backup important stuff every 24h. There is in general a natural balance between " worth of data " and "frequency of backups" which means that the more worth the data are, the more frequent you will do backups ( down to maybe even every hour or even minuet ).
So, before you waste money on an lawyer, court fee's, travel fee's and what ever else, think about it if its really worth risking/wasting even more money.
There are really very very special conditions where you could ask (successfully) for a compensation without having a backup. But it does not look to me like this is the case here.
One special condition could/might be IF you would pay 1k / month for the hosting service and then asking for 8k penalty in case on this kind of issue ( provider falsely deleted your data ) -- even if you would not have had a backup seems (more) reasonable. But that does not really seem to be the case.
So all in all, really really think about it. In any way good luck to both of you to find a good solution!
I'm sorry for what happened to you, but $8,000 in compensation is impossible. I think you can demand a reasonable amount of compensation, then leave this service provider. The data is gone and cannot be recovered.
@aluy
It's not unusual for people to be lax about backups until they experience loss. Hopefully he's now a backup advocate.
This is a very serious allegation, and if everything happened exactly as described, then the core issue here is not just downtime or communication failure, but an irreversible provisioning mistake combined with missing safeguards.
From an operational standpoint, there are a few key red flags:
First, accidental deletion of the wrong active instance without a proper verification step (IP / hostname confirmation) indicates a lack of basic change-control procedure. In any hosting environment, especially VPS where multiple instances belong to the same customer, destructive actions should require explicit confirmation tied to the correct service ID, not just free-text ticket instructions.
If the terms and conditions clearly tell you that you are solely responsible for the integrity and availability of your data, what is the difference between an accidental deletion/hacking or an error that would corrupt the storage?
To have some context, this paragraph is extracted from our T&C:
Besides a tarnished reputation, what does a business risk if it loses customer data?
You're talking to an AI slop bot, I'm sure of it.
I've got that but behind the scenes he/she is confident about what AI is saying.
Sorry, NO, the correct version is "If you value your time, your code, and your business you yourself make frequent backups to off-site"
I'm a developer as well, so let me give you a second hint: a professional developer makes a backup always at the end of a work session. Why? Because "my work has value" isn't just nice words but has a meaning and hence that work deserves to be backuped frequently.
That said, I'm very disappointed by @aluy and in particular Nora.
For a start, if a provider kills the wrong VM and deletes all data on it, they should offer a sincere apology + a decent compensation and NOT a nonchalant "sorry, I messed up and did the opposite of what was asked". That alone very clearly speaks about them and if Julian really cared about their customers he'd apologize for Nora's nonchalant "oopsie".
Also Julian addresses Mkececi by his first name publicly, which is an absolute no-go - plus yet another indicator about their very lax, it seems attitude.
As for the "7 day guarantee" in their TOS/AUP frankly I think, OP is misguided there and particularly so with a provider with such a nonchalant attitude. Plus shockingly obviously they don't care a rat's ass about it. IF they really did they'd have a system in place to stop deletion of all data unless someone higher up explicitly authorizes it.
What Nora did can happen, after all humans are human. That's why professional operations have "safety nets" in place - but obviously not at aluy.
Re the $8000 or $20000, forget about it -or- sue them; because that's the only way to get a serious compensation for damage that is, one beyond what providers typically offer by themselves.
All in all I think OP "sinned" severely by not frequently doing backups himself and to off-site.
But I also think that aluy, of whom I had a good first impression based on what I saw here on LET, actually is an amateur operation with at least one utterly incompetent person (Nora) in the team, and Julian, the owner (AFAIK) seems to be quite nonchalant as well. Very, very negative impression all in all.
They posted it themselves in an imgur album without any names unredacted before the first use by julian
There is probably no actual work session at all, only unreviewed AI slop by someone that does not know code
I don't care. A professional provider and their team have it or at least should have it deeply impressed in them to never basically dox customer's PI, period.
I don't know nor I assume do you, but that's not the point anyway. The point is that customer does consider it important and not easily and quickly recreatable data. Maybe your take is correct but even absolutely worthless data should not be deleted, followed by "oopsie" nonchalance.
Generally speaking (and not having read all comments): I get it, @aluy seems to be well liked here and @Mkececi acted not professionally at all and even indirectly admitted it, but still IMO it's not acceptable to take one side just because for whatever reason one likes them.
Hence my (trying to be) objective view. Yes, OP committed the grave sin of not making backups of his own, but no matter how one turns it, aluy looks really crappy here and with an ignorant and nonchalant attitude.
While the fault clearly lies on the service provider, but your Disaster Recovery Plan (DRP) is really terrible. No backups on production grade app/web. You're literally asking for it.
also naming it "tempdelete-vps"
Im really curious about the $8,000 project. As a hosting provider, the situation is actually quite unusual. I’m not taking sides, but both sides have faults.
When developing a production project, there are typically multiple backups in the background. Currently, projects im doing for Tarisu and myself have daily backups on two different backup infrastructures, Google Drive and an FTP server.
In situations like this, it would be best for both the provider and the customer to keep at least weekly backups, but I’ll say it again. I’m still very curious about the $8,000 project.
Not keeping backups, naming a VPS with "delete", getting mad when the wrong one is deleted, and claiming that they lost $8k? This should be a lesson.
You have now learned the lesson on the importance of taking backups.
This deletion was an accidental mistake. It could just have easily been a failed disk or a datacentre fire or any number of other things that would have had the same outcome with your data.
Your data, your responsibilty. Next time, make backups.
I mean don't get me wrong this should be a lesson and the host made a mistake but to be honest naming a VPS with "delete" isn't a sin in it of itself but that did lead to the confusion on the host part
it was an honest mistake from the provider though but yea, always always have backup for anything to production related. That is the greatest lesson here.