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Hi,
not really as it makes a difference if you are in B2B or B2C ( business to business or business to customer ) relation.
While its assumable that customers will not do their homework and check exactly what they buy/do and because of this the law wants to protect them from their own failures...
... this protection does not go for B2B. If a company buys from a company the law assumes that both are grown up and adult and MUST know what exactly they are doing -- no mercy there ( in opposite to customer handling where there is some protection for fails ).
So while a business might be obliged to refund to a customer if the service/product is not working as it should, with business to business, this is simply not the case. No obligation for refunds between businesses for this kind of "missunderstandings" as the information is in fact available by HP.
Towards customers i also see that a bit critical. On the other hand the provider wrote it that there are no refunds for dedicated servers and that if in doubt, they should contact before ordering. But i think the way the provider put the words are a bit unlucky... as he builds in a condition "if in doubt" while the customer had no doubts at all, as the setup works with him at home. The customer ( and provider ) could not have known thats specifically HP for specifically this model has this limitation. So thats actually a point where the provider could think about if the way he put the words are not problematic.... maybe writing something without this doubt condition would have been better and this way, maybe taking over responsibility for this edge case, for a customer who has also other services might worth thinking about...
... B2B vs. B2C... leaseweb might just say f u... but its worth a try without doubt.
How you are putting this case into not as described ?
We never described iGPU to be working.
Here is a ChatGPT reply for you..
Hi,
ok so if you order a car / motorcycle and somewhere in its firmware its written that you can not drive with it in another country ( or something else that should be obviously clear to work ) then you will not complain?
I mean according to your logic it was not written in the offer that you can also drive in another country ( or your neighborcity or to your girlfriend/boyfriend ( what ever u prefer ) ... so no reason to complain.
Maybe i am wrong, but as much as a provider does not need to list what does NOT work with the product, a customer can expect that ALL works that should be possible by the nature of the product IF its not explicitly written that it does not.
I mean imagine... buying a pen that can only write on white paper... but not on green one... was not part of the product description
Should we also be asking the provider if the CPU is running at stock speeds, and can turbo as well? they are not listed in the ad, but they could just limit it at 800Mhz speeds so it uses less electricity. really?
if something is default in the product you are selling (which iGPU is for this cpu), then you should not be expected to be asking for motherboards or chassis that they are using if the defaults have changed. if its not a default setup then that should be disclosed.
There is a reason Leaseweb went B2B.
What prompt did you use there? Why does ChatGPT specifically refer to HPE DL20 Gen10 Plus? Is this something that was mentioned in your original offer?
It's a server. And usually in servers you don't have the need to use a GPU except maybe when you're in a DC yourself and you want to hookup a monitor. So yes, my logic (in my opinion) still applies. Using GPU capability/capacity in a server is something out-of-normal behaviour.
And if you apply that to your example of a car: I live in a flat country. If I buy a small car, with a simple, low power, motor I don't expect it to behave well or at all in a mountain area. If I want to drive into the mountains with it I'll ask the seller if it's capable of doing so. And I certainly don't come back to the seller saying "I bought that car yesterday, didn't ask if I could but I'm trying to go into the Alps with it and I don't get up the mountain with a 25% slope".
My main point is: being able to use the iGPU wasn't mentioned in the offer; OP assumed it'd work. If it's that important for someone: ask. Especially when there is a no-return policy.
I have a few VPSes with the seller and before I ordered them I asked if I could use it for the purpose I needed because their ToS weren't really clear about it. And I got a prompt answer. If the answer was "no" I wouldn't have ordered them and I would search another one.
And yes, I also think that in the end it would be a nice gesture of the seller to just refund and get the discussion stopped. However, I can also understand that you don't want to encourage people to "just assume and try" and hope for a refund when you explicitely told them sales are final. Margins are low on these kind of offers, and if we, as a LET community, want to keep those offers coming, we have to accept that sometimes we buy and the conditions of selling are kept in a strict manner.
guys why is this thread still going?
to answer OP ( @bingo567 ) question:
You should accept the fact you didn't contact the provider beforehand and take some responsibility for accepting the terms where it is clearly stated there are no refunds on dedis. I hope you only paid monthly 35 eur for this.
If you contacted @HostDZire , i'm pretty sure they would check it saving you from making uninformed purchase. If they said you can use iGPU, then you would have at least some basis to open this thread.
It's not like HostDZire is not reachable here. I left them a PM on LET about 3 months ago asking about one particular use case for their VPS (Tor relay).
They responded within 20 minutes saying it's not possible according to their ToS and that's it, I respect that. No need to make a drama thread about not getting something they didn't even promise in the first place.
From what i understand, you bought the dedi from HostDZires' promo offer. I don't see any basis why you should get a refund from them, there is nothing they did wrong on their part.
We should be grateful for making this special deal. If there will be more such situations in the future, I doubt providers will take us (LET) seriously and just stop making deals here. It's usually not even profitable for them to sell here.
tldr; Just accept your loss, take responsibility and move on with your life. Next time you will know to ask provider beforehand. Bad choices/purchases happen to all of us. It's about what you learn from them.
Here you go.
Your prompt specifically points ChatGPT in the direction that there could be an issue in a very specific configuration (the customer is not aware of at all).
I guess a prompt like "So I am a hosting provider, I listed a server in website with CPU E2388G in order page. So does my server will come under not as described if iGPU is not working in server?" would reflect the actual situation a lot more accurately.
FWIW, as a casual consumer, I would give the customer a refund. Even though terms are clearly stated, and the customer is not entitled to a refund, this is an unusual circumstance and the public relations popcorn drama isn't worth the ~60$ a month. Reputation is worth more than that.
One person's opinion.
Really? your prompt is more accurate how ?
I always try to give full information to chatgpt only then i can expect a accurate detailed answer.
But here you go with your prompt.
What a pile of BS!
@jsg when you buy a server you don't expect it to work? i mean this is LET, it happens here, but anyway...
@HostDZire
You damn scammer! Neither the fans in the server on which your west coast VPS is running nor those on your Singapore VPS are blowing to Europe! I can't feel their breeze here at all!
I hereby send a work order for half an unpeeled banana as both compensation for my hurt feelings and as proof that there are proper fans in your nodes!!1!1!!
angry reguards
P.S. The fact that I do not even have a west coast or SGP VPS from you does not mean that my complaint or my work order are baseless! Proof: You did not clearly state on you website that your fans inside the server chassis are too weak to blow across oceans and continents!!1!
Request a refund
Nope, I do expect that they work - and OP's server does work. I do not expect any features though that are not specified in the offer and the website.
Your home computer
While a rented server or VPS
In fact special code is required to transfer the graphics output over the network (and also to show it on your screen).
This is one of those cases where everybody is right (Leaseweb for stating what they offer, HostDZire for not specifying GPU, customer for assuming that the CPU will have all its features available).
But for the love of God, why would HP include a CPU like E-2388G which has a GPU integrated in that chip, and then disable its feature by not having a proper motherboard or chassis? Why? Just why? That chip is specifically designed with those graphic features in mind! It is like using only 3 fingers of a hand every single day, even though the hand has 5 healthy fingers.
People compare this with bananas and apples. I would compare this with a menu of pasta at a restaurant, but without sauce. You assume pasta comes with some sauce, but there is no sauce; while the chef thinks customer wants just plain pasta; as the manager wants to reduce costs from sauce so he accepts the design of the menu.
In my opinion someone at HP needs to be fired for such blasphemy in such design and assembly. This is a complete disrespect towards the passion of computing, and towards providers in having to put up with such improper product lineup.
That's because you haven't discovered other uses yet.
I am currently specifically looking for servers with integrated graphics or the option to pay extra for a dedicated graphics card. You can check my other comments on posts from other vendors in the offer section.
You have this hardware, but you can't use it. You didn't make it clear, which is somewhat problematic, isn't it?
Your analogy is inappropriate. This is a power issue, which should correspond to the CPU frequency, while the iGPU is a different function altogether. It has nothing to do with power; they are completely different things.
I am also using their VPS and have purchased several units without any issues.
I think that HP can speak for themselves but I don't think their spokesperson is on LET on a regular basis, but if I take a quick look at the CPU lineup of Intel, I only see a couple of non-G versions (2378 is het "highest") in the Xeon E Rocket Lake lineup. The 2388G is the highest clocked 8 core one, and compared to the 2378 it has a higher clock frequency. So it could be a performance choice to offer the highest clocked processor and just not using the GPU.
I would agree with you if the CPU was a E-2378G since that one also has a non-G counterpart.
A fan only has one function: to blow air. But a CPU has two functions. The main one is well-known and varies in performance (just like how far your fan can blow), but the other function—the iGPU—is needed by a minority of users. I specifically sought out a CPU with an iGPU and verified on Intel's official website that it included an iGPU before purchasing, because without the iGPU, my project wouldn't work. You can also check my comments in the offer section—they're all related to graphics cards.
@bingo567 - I am deeply and honestly sorry for what you are going through. I love computers and I like to think people who design computers want to make homogeneous systems with parts that compliment and help one another to maximise computing capacity and features as best as possible. This is why I love low-end systems.
In this case you might want to blame the provider, but HostDZire was clear in their terms as well as their offer. You might want to blame Leaseweb, but they merely took a server and integrated it into their datacenter, offering stable and reliable connectivity from multiple peers.
The discomfort you experience should be pointed towards HP for doing such a mess in that server's design. They took the brain of a computer and disabled its left hemisphere. I am so mad at them, and so mad for your misfortune in what you have to put up with. I hate HP at this moment, I hate them from the bottom of my heart because this decision comes from their top management there, not from some simple assembly worker. I hated them before for bad peripherals, but now I am mad at them.
There is nothing any of us can do. There is nothing a provider can fix. It is simply poor design of a machine. What you can do is cancel the server, and move on. Meanwhile you could donate some of that computing resources (just the right hemisphere of that brain, to keep expressions imaginative) to some non-profit project online as you wait for the end of billing term. Maybe that donation to some great human cause will take away from the feeling of misfortune you experience.
I am deeply sorry you got screwed by HP. It could have happened to anyone. And this is what troubles me even more, because this is not the end, as I will likely get to see more such bad design from some managers who don't deserve their job.
Before buying the dedicated server, I had already been using several of their VPS instances. Recently, while searching for a server with an integrated GPU or the option to add a dedicated GPU at an additional cost, I rented one from Fiberstate. Their 5700G didn't specify the iGPU in the description, but it worked. Then I rented a server from HostDZire with an iGPU - I confirmed on Intel's official website that the E-2388G does include an iGPU, so I (perhaps naively) assumed the server's iGPU would simply work. Who knew it would end up like this? I originally hoped to find a solution on LET (the customer service said they couldn't resolve it and asked me to figure it out myself. I've also tried searching for related solutions and using AI tools to address the issue).
The lineup of VPS instances is created by the provider and assigned automatically. For VPS it is provider's fault how they configure their cloud. This though has nothing to do with your case, because your case is related to a dedicated machine.
I absolutely understand you. I really feel sorry for you. It could have happened to me or anyone else. But this is the disrespect of HP towards the providers. Some servers come really well made and structured with components who benefit one another, other servers seem designed based on throwing some compatible sockets in a mixer and see what comes out (like HP did).
LET can't help you. I am bewildered just like you are. I believe AI can't help you either, but AI has no emotions. What happened to you is a complete disrespect towards the very passion of a technician's work.
(emphasis mine)
Did you buy a processor? No, you didn't. You bought a dedi. So you should have checked not with intel but with @HostDZire.
I think that since using the iGPU is proven to be impossible on that server, the only question which was still open was, will the provider do a bit of "the customer is always right" and refund the OP to enjoy some customer satisfaction, or stick to their policy and not risk opening the gate to many refund requests. They have chosen so that’s it, OP moves on.
Since the customer has no use for it, and if @HostDZire has no use for it either, and if Leaseweb would not do refunds, maybe @Not_Oles could have a use for it at his project with free VPS, that is if @HostDZire would feel like helping.
The interesting part is that we all learned a bad story from this, about some HP servers.
I've now purchased a dedicated server from Fiberstate. Their servers support iGPU functionality.
Is that HP?
I don't know, as long as it works. I rented this server.
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