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Our experience with aurologic: fair warning if you're a customer
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I actually think @jh_aurologic is correct here. If the agreed-upon TOS for his case at the moment of purchase - which we are not seeing here - has stated that the contract would renew for 12-month periods, per period, it does mean that any cancellation can be done starting from 90 days in advance to the end of the term.
That could be 92, 103 or 187 days, doesn't matter, would only end at the 12-month billing period's end.
The control panel can show anything and it's quite easy to justify that what shows on the CP it's directed at B2C and merely something not possible to adapt to B2B from a technical standpoint (which wouldn't surprise me, these limitations do exist occasionally).
Aurologic still compromised with 4.5 months and later 3 months as a settlement attempt despite needing to fulfill other agreements/duties with other companies.
I believe it would be quite easy to justify why 1 month is not enough for a settlement - it all depends on the executed investments for the customer and general costs, for example.
But at this scale and level, I'm honestly not surprised a 1-month settlement is not accepted. In fact, it seems naïve to even think that such an offer would be accepted, since we are talking about two full-blown operations here.
Going to court, basically... everyone will lose more time, unnecessarily, and if a TOS is found mentioning the 12-month autorenewal for him or any communication agreeing to it, it's basically over. The sheer fees that apply for this could actually pay... for the remaining 9 months of the contract. And that can't be efficient - in any way.
The 3 month advance payment is perfectly reasonable from Aurologic, considering the expenses run. My 5 cents.
I just woke up @jh_aurologic could you throw a hissy fit again? i need some drama while i’m drinking my morning coffee
I like those “X days notice”. You order for 12 months with cancellation notice before 11 months prior. Like you order some rare, custom made peace of hardware with hand built pcb and everything.
This is “legal scam”. Both gov and ltd’s knows that customers forget, they don’t want to read lengthy terms of service etc. And they feed on that.
Why hetzner able to adapt to normal invoicing practices? It is anomaly, for sure.
A bit delusional. No ToS is higher then local gov policies. And I bet aurologic policy will not stand gov regulation scrutiny when lawyer will dissect it word by word.
It would be good precedent if OP would go to trial and push beyond all settlements (because aurologic will want settle).
if there has been any ambiguity in the clauses that allows one party to interpret accordingly as such, then the other party should just accept and move on, since that will likely be the way it will be interpreted in court of law.
its just a waste of money and resources going to court over this.
@AS203446 Might be wrong because of not understanding the contract or forgetting when to cancel, its possible, it happens all the time. he might have acted wrong by blaming @jh_aurologic by saying its your fault etc, i wont pay etc in starting of this matter. but as a company there is only one option to select, settle the matter, take the money whatever he can pay and let him go.
But everyone can clearly see aurologic handling the matter in wrong way.
He is continuously targeting the OP by calling him Kid when in real he is the one loosing his temper, AS203446 is acting like victim here, he is trying to explain the matter and still solve the problem. But aurologic do not care about AS203446, he keeps giving him attitude like he is the boss. And trying to insult him in every possible way.
Just because @jh_aurologic is in the better position he should not act like this. imagine if AS203446 was not from Germany, then things might have different here.
aurologic Is offended by AS203446 and acting like he will bring AS203446 down to dust.
In real AS203446 dont have anything big to loose here, he is just starting, if he is still 22, then he has long way to go, he will come out more stronger after this incident.
He will learn alot in court, even if he loose the case this time, but next time he will be ready.
But if this type of behaviour continues by aurologic to his client, to his employees who do not do whatever he says, i mean it happens all the time.
Then its actually aurologic who has something big to loose here.
Off course aurologic has designed the contract, he might win the case.
But he will loose the customer, AS203446 wont come back again ever, and now he started this thread due to which we were able to see aurologic behaviour then i clearly see he has done more damage then aurologic could do to him.
aurologic Could just nigociated it properly to handled this.
There are many ways, but this is not correct way.
Okay, this isnt nice! No matter who is right or wrong here.
Most of "we" here on LET started as one man show only. I did, he did, and most likely you did too!
3 years long client + fellow provider, and you're not only showing this rude attitude but are also making personal remarks. Even if you're in the right here, I still wouldn't like to do business with you with this kind of behaviour.
Well the "rude" attitude is within germans culture typically to foreigners, seems they don't spare their own citizens too.
Btw, auronologic is in my avoid list just because personal informations that he showed toward his customers!
I’m not sure about other cpuntries, but in Sweden at least you can absolutely buy something personally and if certain checks are in place, you can still get the VAT back.
It’s not a case of always, but not a case of never.
Just saying because usually stuff are quite similar between countries when it comes to things like this. Especially EU countries.
https://www.bjornlunden.se/personal/lyfta-moms-på-anställdas-utlägg__420
i = the individual
we = the business entity
name it!
with sauerkraft, semmel and senf!
🤮
I'd say he needs to pay the 3 months. The terms were very clear that 90 days notice of termination needs to be given. No matter how you interpret anything else, that was clear.
As to whether it was just a 12 month contract, and then a rolling 1 month contract, or renewing for another 12 months (I'd say not because it says "renewal term 1 month"), or just one long contract that extends rather than renewing (possible as it says "minimum term 12 months").
But whatever, the terms still clearly say 90 days notice needs to be given before the end of the contract. Even if that switched to a renewal term of 1 month, that still needs to be adhered to.
I also don't think it's reasonable to argue for more than 3 months. Even if it's a German company with all their legalities in German, if the order page (which is the offer for contract and describes the terms) uses English and they say "renewal term" when what it seems they're arguing it means is "payment term", then that's the provider's problem not the customer's. It also doesn't look like the offer terms were provided in correct German, so the English terms need to be the ones followed.
if first clause was "payment term = 1 month" then provider is right.
since its "renewal term" then imo its in OP's advantage. context is important.
it is also not uncommon in B2B / B2C contracts to have a minimum initial contract period lock-in, after which to be renewed on per month basis
@jh_aurologic in here calling others children while acting like one himself, stay classy.
Basically avoid a provider that belittles others while leaking personal details and modifying terms to fit them.
Yes, you did, but way too late. Shift it and bend it all you like but at least the 90 days ahead cancellation notice for the 12 months period is neither uncommon nor unclear.
Also the allegedly non working cancel button doesn't change the facts. If it was important to you to cancel in time you'd have done so - but you didn't, neither did you use a speedy alternative means to make @jh_aurologic know about your intention to cancel by e.g. sending them a letter. That means that you certainly weren't in a hurry and that's not their fault.
Them responding only near to end of February might be impolite but still is within the 3 months period.
Also: YOU did open this thread here and it's hard to believe that you meant well and just wanted to "inform the community". The way I see it you wanted to create pressure, simple as that. Accordingly you consistently tried to pose as the victim. And yes there are a few negative factors with aurologic too, like e.g. the very unclear terms, github, etc.
But they DID show good will, they did offer to settle the whole thing with you just paying the extra 3 months that are based on their cancellation period for the 12 month term - but you refused and stubbornly insisted on forcing your (frankly, out of the ass IMO) "1 month only" conditions.
So, what was achieved?
YOU BOTH lost reputation and you both acted emotionally and unprofessionally when push came to shove.
If this goes to court you will have to pay at least the 3 months and probably more, even if the court agrees with your interpretation that renewals are monthly. I guess you could dance in joy if you only had to pay the 3 months (instead of 6 months (it's June now) plus the three months, plus legal fees, lawyers etc).
And aurologic will get a slap on the fingers for having unclear conditions and terms in some regard.
It would have been better for you to (a) stay polite and professional, and (b) accept his settlement offer. And aurologic would look a lot better if he had stayed polite and professional (e.g. no "kid" remarks) as well.
Oh, and apologies to aurologic for repeatedly misspelling their handle ('aurologic' instead of 'jh_autologic').
That is not going to happen. The three months are, as I stated before, tied to the initial 12 month term.
Right, their cancellation period for the initial 12 month term. There is no automatic renewal.
The initial term ended in October 2024. If the 1 month renewal term is valid, when should I have cancelled the service? I cancelled in December, so according to you I would need to have cancelled in September.
But since the 12 month term was over in October, the contract went into a month to month term. I can't cancel 90 days before 1 month contract ends. That is not possible.
But which 12 month period are you talking about? I think you missed something in the initial post.
There was no automatic renewal info in the initial order.
I just want to mention this again:
aurologic changed ALL of their service / product overviews in their customer portal to automatic renewal, no matter the type of service. For all customers. And they changed this after I complained.
Notice is almost never tied to just specific term. If the contract is month to mont hand you have 90 days notice, probably effective at the end of the monthly term, you will pay for up to 119 days from the day you issue the notice.
Either voluntarily, or involuntarily with additional recovery costs.
Pay up and take it as a lesson in contract law before working with any bigger players that will not entertain this kind of approach.
That is not stated in the aurologic TOS. I work with companies that are much much larger than aurologic(Liberty Global, Cogent, NTT and so on) and none of them:
good luck!
@AS203446 you're in the wrong here. From @jh_aurologic's page it's clear that the cancellation notice required is 90 days, the fact it rolls into a month to month is not uncommon. It's the same way with most sensible datacenter operations, if you tried to pull this stunt on another DC, let's say Equinix, you'd face the consequences accordingly.
Now, that doesn't excuse @jh_aurologic calling you a kid or this being fundamentally childish in nature. I'd recommend you both swallow your pride, come to an agreement and move on.
@AS203446 if you disagree with @jh_autologic, that's what courts are for. LET is not a court of anything but public opinion, and so far you both are getting shit on equally. This thread was only a good idea if you already had a court order saying you're in the right, but you don't and you may never get one.
You should count your blessings that @jh_aurologic doesn't want to come after you for defamation or similar laws depending on what's available in Germany, because in my opinion you're riding that defamatory line like a cheap hooker.
Can anyone confirm if netcup has also implemented this kind of practice?
Those private information are all public such as: https://www.imos.net/unternehmen
I'd suggest to go full-time your company and avoid that, if you dont want that someone knows that your work for Imos. Just my two cents and nothing private with that at all, first page Google ;-)
Btw: I dont know your contract, but it seems you are quite responsive during the day.
To be fair, the title 'kid' was maybe not so nice, however I've been young(er) on my own and the behavior you start here, is not nice at all, not matching mature one. If you are sure the contract is terminated, why do you apparently start such a theater and waste (our) time? Official (court) way is there to find out who's right and who's wrong, it's as simple as that.
I understand about the 90 days cancellation part, but could you explain the change here:
The first area shows nothing about it renewing for 12 months, only that it seems to revert to a month-to-month basis with a 90 day cancellation period.
Was it clearly shown (at the time of purchase) or communicated during the contract that expiring contracts renew for 12 months, instead of the otherwise stated 1 month?
I don't care about you sharing this information here. I just mentioned that there is no reason for you to share this here. It has no relevance. Aren't you the one that isn't mature?
My lawyer just confirmed everything again. We'll see how this is going to end in court.
My post, and I've said this probably like 10 times now, is to prevent others from having the same issues with your "contracts". Your contracts are not clear enough.
That's the only thing I mentioned. I even included that I was satisfied with your service.
If you don't mind keep us updated either win or lose.
AS203446 You should be glad you're German, otherwise aurologic could argue that you're a foreigner who doesn't understand German contract rules. At least now he's spared from being in such a disadvantageous position.
On the other hand, I've noticed that even Germans don't always quickly grasp their sometimes baffling contract customs.
It’s encouraging that a significant number of German businesses have begun to align with global standards, adopting contract terms that are easy to understand and similar to those used by the majority of consumers (or companies).
As for the contract itself, it naturally carries legal implications.
However, in practical terms, I believe a contract is a tool designed to facilitate transactions between parties and should not prioritize form over substance.
For those who defend such contracts, I would say—this is undoubtedly a bureaucratic mindset.
Before you become a truly large company, it is best not to develop such habits.
@AS203446 where is your impressum on AS203446.net ?
Redacted for privacy reason.