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Comments
Hmm I see.
Or just use Matrix
You see how you're full of shit. The staff didn't do anything. I don't own any IRC server, I just parked a bot on one public channel (just like everyone can) and use one of my domains for that matter. Or I could one from https://freedns.afraid.org/ like we did in the distant past.
You're completely clueless about what you're talking about and argue just for the sake of arguing.
Eggdrops and funny Pisg stats have always been part of IRC. I did it as my contribution because it seemed like a fun idea - I wanted to give it that retro vibe only old IRC visitors would recognize and not because some clueless fucks of your sort thinks they can have privacy on a public IRC channel.
Once again, read this slowly and use some brains while reading:
IRC is designed to be private? Nah, IRC's design has nothing to do with privacy. Zero. Nada. Zilch. That's a nowadays myth. A stupid one.
Not a single RFC mentions this. Logging functionality is even implemented in most clients. mIRC, for example, has had it since 1995. If you're on the same channel with other people or in a public conversation, you should always assume that their IRC client logs your conversation. This is a standard feature of most IRC clients.
On the other hand, you can always open your own channel, and from then it's a simple... Either you trust the people you invite to your channel, or you don't. And yes, it's stupid if you do. It's IRC, for Christ's sake!
Besides that, you're mixing things up. An IRC network/server is not the same as an individual IRC channel. Anyone can open their own IRC channel (IRC room) with their own rules.
IRC networks, IRC administration, etc., don't log those things. It's the users, or more specifically, their IRC clients (the numerous different programs individuals use to connect to IRC) that do. Some even log by default. You can always create your own channel and decide what to do with it and who to invite. It’s really simple...
If staff wants to make logs for the public, why use bots? Admins can easily configure a logging block in configurations, whether it is for UnrealIRCD, InspIRCD, or something else.
I won't ever trust lowendirc. I was there on its beginnings, I know how the founder was thinking, and seeing logs of channels makes me extremely doubtful about its privacy implementation from staff (not about the privacy within some visitor's client software).
EDIT: Good luck with using that network, or whatever network makes you happy.
Oh, for fuck's sake... I'm done with your nonsense.
You should have told me in the beginning that you have some unrelated personal issues or something, instead of wasting my time explaining the most basic things to you...
Thank you for taking the time to explain the most basic things to me. I did not know I needed this. But anyway, thanks. Good luck with that network and I strongly hope you will enjoy it.
This is a perfect example of how one [put here something random] can shit on something meant purely as a joke and harmless fun, just like we knew it twenty or more years ago, and try to ruin it with their negativity.
Nobody needs that. This IRC thingy was meant solely as fun and nothing more than that. The things you're trying to discuss have always been part of IRC iconography where my interest and contribution is solely from an enthusiastic point of view. Some may appreciate that, time people invested in that and some... if it's not your thing, that's okay too.
There is no negativity. You literally made that public to show how good is that network. You come with advertising, and then you get saddened when faced with simple privacy. Afterwards you try to derail it into clients being able to log it, when you knew from the get-go what I was referring to. All this is to say that you wanted your advertising, and when compelled with clear evidence posted by you about privacy and how servers can be configured to log things, now you blame of negativity.
Fine. I'm negative, but I am negative precisely about privacy. I consider privacy highly important nowadays - but I don't think I need to derail this topic into the importance of privacy even on a free service.
Yes. it was for fun. But in the beginning IRC was meant to be a private fun between a group's members. Again: by default IRC servers do not log anything. If some visitor logs something on purpose then displays it online for everybody to see (even people who were not on a channel), then trust is out the window towards that visitor. If I were an operator, I would ban him. Call me negative for caring about my (and other's) privacy.
Nowadays you need someone's consent to record them, using privacy rules and terms. Surely this can not be applied to IRC in informing people every time how they can be recorded on a channel by others - but making that log public by staff just because they can do it without consent and without privacy terms - it is a big issue. Again: call me negative.
Oh, boy... Sorry, but with all the crap you posted I am pretty sure you don't know a shit what IRC is and how it work...
You as an operator can't do a shit about that matter unless you ban and close a whole channel. Your premise that you have a privacy on a public IRC channel where visitors run their own crap in the background is a hilarious as hell...
this is a weird hill to die on
I feel bad that I scrolled thru the last page of arguments without reading but frankly I found it unworthy of my eyeballs. I'm not a consumer of lowendirc but I applaud the effort. I'm entirely too lazy to connect to another server, but maybe someday.
I have irc logs going back to 1997 come get at me bro. It's amusing how embarrassingly I behaved back then. And the amount of mixed case typing, what the fuck was that about?
You don't need to close a channel, but you can always do it if you wish so. Or you can also abandon the network entirely.
However, here are some recommendation from a negative guy who does not know anything:
My premise is on the fact that visitors need to be in the channel. However, this is a derail, because the logs posted in this case are for advertising, therefore done by staff. If I can't trust staff, then I can assume they log the whole network, simply because it is easier than doing it through bots, or through services.
You like to keep logs?
Maybe you should write a book with your life memories if you like holding such data for that long.
ChatGPT? Oh, boy.... When I just thought that you can't serve me more of the random crap...
What a moron. I have nothing to do with running those IRC servers, they aren't mine. Whatever I run, I run it solely as vistor. The same as you or anyone can.
I liked the initiative so I decided to participate the way we did 20 - 30 years ago and that's it. How could I knew that I will get a random clueless idiot on my back...
Now ask your buddy ChatGPT what channel +p and +s modes are compared to a public IRC channel.
...and don't forget...
channel → #lowendtalk
server → irc.libera.chat
Thank you for the assumption that I use AI. I feel smarter. Thanks. You made me smile and made my day. Maybe I am no longer negative today because of this smile.
Of course it's an AI generated text. And mostly not even related to the discussion. It's obvious and relatively random copy/paste.
Yeah, sure it is. I can't possibly be someone who loved IRC since my first PC in 1998, right? I also can't possibly be someone who uses IRC for web implementation as self-hosted support. Neah! It can't possibly be any of this. Therefore I must be using AI.
However, IRC is used to communicate by most open source communities
Lol, what an utterly stupid discussion. If the people contributing to that IRC project, which I find lovely, want to recreate the authentic old-school feeling, then so be it.
Back in the day, almost every self-respecting channel, and especially the largest ones for the general population had its own webpage. Some listing member nicknames, ages, locations, some showing stats (mIRCStats or Pisg used by Mumbly), or something in between. This stuff wasn't run by server owners, but by ordinary people, just like here. There was even an awesome website https://bash.org that collected funny quotes from major IRC networks and channels, and many of us genuinely enjoyed reading it. It became popular in the early 2000s for its user-submitted IRC logs featuring absurd, hilarious, or awkward conversations. Many of the top quotes are iconic in internet culture.
Talking about privacy in a public IRC channel with 60+ people constantly coming and going is just ridiculous. For what? Some people exist to build, and some to burn other people's work down. Which one are you, @default?
First of all, those two channels are public. There's no +private or +secret mode enabled. Anyone on network can see those two channels on /list or /whois, can join, leave, idle, or even park their bot.
Second, there are more than 50 people in there at any given time.
Third, Pisg stats urls are listed in the both channel topics. Anyone present on channel can see them, open them, and have fun reading them.
And fourth, if you prefer certain things not to be visible, say it in private chat window or create a new channel with +secret mode and invite only people you trust.
In any case, @default, you're barking up the wrong tree.
Of course it's a AI generated text. You did not bother much to even hide it when you pasted it... You wanted to give the impression that you understand things, but most of that AI generated text above is completely random, and things don't work exactly like that or address issue I mentioned.
Anyway....
If you type /list you will see that there are currently around 30 public IRC channels on this network. In addition to those, there are also private channels (+s or +p mode enabled) that don't appear in the /list so me or you can't see them. Everyone is free to open such channel.
To my knowledge (I don't know what other people run on other channels), only two of them run this so-called "funny stats" which in reality, aren't true statistics, since they're based on nicknames rather than IPs (which, again, a random Eggdrop not related to server administration can't see, as they are masked). Many of those nicknames aren't even registered or use quick nick protection and can be used by anyone.
So this so called stats that inclue only random publicly said excerpts should be used for amusement purposes only, not as anything serious or reliable.
I really didn't know that I will have someone on my neck because of that... And for what? For a freakin' Perl IRC Statistics Generator, that is part of an old IRC culture.
As if it's my fault that you're grumpy, always complaining about everything as if the world owes you something...
These were good times, but also unregulated times. Nowadays we have privacy laws on internet. A very positive and happy guy was searching earlier for RFC legislation with regards to IRC, but privacy back then was not so tight. New privacy legislation of internet applies to IRC too.
This thread is not about me, or my opinion, or channels having many users. I simply raised the issue of privacy as it appeared. My intent is not to destroy an IRC server. I want IRC to thrive. With regards to building: I mentioned earlier about using self-hosting IRC for integrated support over the web.
Well, the channels are public within the network, inside the network, on the actual network. The network did not define itself as public or private in any meaningful way with regards to privacy. There are no privacy rules on website, nor at connecting, and neither in MOTD.
With that in mind, it made public logs which were inside the network, to outside the network, therefore no longer being valid within the network privacy (regulations) assumptions. Data from the network has been made public to the whole internet, without users from within network being clearly informed in advanced (again: no rules).
The modes +s and +p which Mumbly also mentioned earlier, I did not bother to debate on. I will not bother now either; because this has nothing to do with trying to protect a channel from leaking information, and neither with making conversations from within channel public. These modes are more for restricting public display of a channel name within network, whether it is from public listing or from "whois" info.
I don't care. I won't comment on that either. You may have 1 million if the network allows. Congrats!
If there is a topic stating that continuation to stay on channel is considered as consent to share the data outside the network's boundaries, then so be it. I don't know of such topic, or such messages.
The network might be configured to log and share data. I don't think I can personally trust such network if it logs and shares the conversation from its main channels.
Wof... wof... I guess.
Once again, thanks for the compliment. I previously explained myself. I will not backtrack or modify my explanation.
I would add to my comment that I completely forgot about the SSL channel mode which can also be used to enforce privacy of conversation in channels by restricting users to join only if they connect through SSL.
I won't even bother to explain how +s and +p do not affect the channel's activity inside. It only affects the display of its name and topic within the network.
I can't comment, because I don't know either.
With consent or without consent of users? This is where it gets tricky for privacy.
An IRC culture long gone, and loaded with legislation nowadays. Sorry, I just signalled the issue. Feel free to ignore me and call me negative - I won't mind.
This is your view about me and I respect it. However, I will also completely ignore it, but thank you.
Ignore? But you just commented it. With a whole bunch of nothing.
I guess you feel the need to win an argument no matter what, even if it requires random bullshitting and completely ignoring what people try to explain to you.
But that's nothing new. There will always be someone with an big ego who finds something negative in everything and prefers to ruin rather than cooperate, help or do something meaningful.
Obviously not as you're bothered with that exact IRC culture there. :P
I did say thanks.
You called me grumpy and complaining. There was no argument. I simply said thanks and mentioned that I respect your opinion (even though I was also honest about ignoring it).
I did not ruin anything. I did not attack your network, instead pointed out a problem in privacy. The fact that you got so triggered about it... that's on you.
I do consider it long gone. The reason why I consider it long gone is because of its success which clearly is no longer the same. Back in the early 2000s IRC was very popular, with millions of users across many networks. I even remember mIRC being one the most downloaded software in 2003, along with Winamp. There was even the joke of starting Winamp from IRC using "/part Winamp". So yeah, it's a culture long gone - even though IRC can still be used successfully in modern times. It still has a special place, at least in my heart.
LET where shitting up even the most bland and uncontroversial threads is a requirement.
Hello just wondering if the creator of this IRC chat will also receive a severe warning for "Directing to other hosting community" the same as @Rubben did for starting a Matrix group chat?
does @Rubben need to pay 200$ to not get warn
+1, why IRC chat allowed and Matrix chat not ?
Tbh Rubben was a bit annoying with his invitation (but I didn't report him to LET staff)