New on LowEndTalk? Please Register and read our Community Rules.
All new Registrations are manually reviewed and approved, so a short delay after registration may occur before your account becomes active.
All new Registrations are manually reviewed and approved, so a short delay after registration may occur before your account becomes active.
Comments
My VM arrived today, yay! Before the deadline, which makes me even happier! Thank you @hosthatch!
@shaikhmanal I flagged this post, hopefully mods will see it.
@hosthatch
I am a very satisfied customer of yours. I have had absolutely no problems, and when there have been minor issues, your customer service has sorted things out quickly.
What I don't like about you is your lack of knowledge. It's just shocking!
My dear young friend @hosthatch, it is a very well regulated EU law - in fact in every single country - that anyone selling goods or services online cannot offer them in circumvention of EU laws.
Every company must comply with this EU legislation, the so-called right of withdrawal.
The reason why an ordering person has their "right of withdrawal" is the place of performance. If this place of performance is anywhere within the European Union, the place of jurisdiction is in the city where the data center is located within the European jurisdiction.
Due to the jurisdiction of the place of performance within the EU, the EU applies and the "right of withdrawal" can be asserted.
In addition, it is also very well regulated in the EU that all general terms and conditions of a service that violate EU law are null and void.
It does not matter whether the T&Cs were agreed at the time of the order or not. What was illegal at the time of the order cannot be turned into something legal just because one person did not know it.
In principle, an agreement that contains something that violates a law does not become legal by one party agreeing to it and the other party claiming it is legal.
No, that doesn't work in any country, including the United States of America. Tampa is no exception. The same is true of the U.S. Civile Code.
So I don't understand where your legal knowledge comes from, @hosthatch. It would be much better if you educated yourself about such things first.
Well, as your benefactor who appreciates your business offers and consequent services with full respect, I'm simply trying to expand your knowledge. So this is not a complaint or any form of attack, to be clear.
This is equivalent to kicking the queen in a beehive.
Get ready for the onslaught.
It's not so simple.
For a business, there are two questions here:
Even the EU itself is doubtful that a non-EU business will follow EU law:
Source: https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/guarantees-returns/faq/index_en.htm
Good to know and I am glad our service works well for you.
For the remainder of it: I would recommend consulting a lawyer. You may be able to sue and win huge sums of money if your knowledge is correct.
LowEndClassAction remains unlikely.
do I smell popcorn?
not in hosthatch thread ... they don't have popcorn. It mostly the smell of
As someone who studied EU law I know the basics, but I'm not a lawyer and so take this with a grain of salt. I also haven't looked up if there's any precedent on this already.
Point is, it's not certain that hosting services would be qualified for a 14 day refund anyway. Unless you find precedent, arguing for that without being a lawyer is just silly.
There's this exception on the EU website (I won't read the directive and how that's further defined):
I suspect that's the exception domain registrars for example would point at to deny a refund after their cost has already occurred.
EU directives are extremely open to interpretation and often written with the purpose of letting a court interpret the directives in a very broad way, based on the "purpose" of the directive etc.
One could definitely argue that the exception is meant to allow merchants to deny a refund for already consumed digital content, now, is allocated VPS resources "consumed" in that sense? I don't know what a court would decide about that.
To be clear, I'm definitely not saying that HostHatch is 100 % right, I don't know, but any claim that interpreting EU directives and their enforcement for companies located outside of the EU is easy is plain out wrong. If interpreting EU directives was easy, becoming a lawyer would be an evening course for enthusiasts and not a university degree.
You think that an authority has the power to enforce foreign law on a business based abroad.
No, that is a misconception. It is the European courts in the cities where services (or products) are offered. Let me explain how this works.
For example, if a person has paid 100 USD and is a resident of the European Union. He declares that he is exercising his "right of withdrawal". After refusing, the European customer will do the following:
I don't need to consult a lawyer because I have never claimed any kind of refund based on the right of withdrawal from any server provider.
Even in the future when I order from you, I will never care on such a right of revocation. I will order services from you in the future because I am satisfied with the extra-ordinary services you provided.
If I made a mistake, I will stick with my mistake and not revoke the order.
And it's not about large sums of money as a loss either. The procedure described above allows a maximum of 100 USD, which was the original sum.
Nothing beyond that, as in the US, where the courts award punitive damages to the complainant. There is no such concept in the EU.
I am making a general debate on the issue. It isn't any complain, as said before.
By definition, an "EU Directive" is not a law for citizens. It is a kind of agreement between governments within the EU who agree that each government will do the same as decided in that EU Directive.
No EU Directive is applicable "as law" anywhere in the EU.
One can invoke a fundamental aspect in a court case that controls "another law", where there is a fundamental deviation of aims setup in that directive and the other law, therefore, does not comply with the EU Directive.
But that EU Directive can never be in full force and effect and also never ever be enforceable. In other words, it is not available for citizens.
Since every EU Directive is an agreement between governments, they are also very vague and open to interpretation because that is the way the governments in the EU want it. They have agreed in this way, which should be open to domestic interpretation, because the national laws in the Member States differ drastically.
However, an "EU Regulation" is applicable "as law" anywhere in the EU.
Damn, I have just qualified as EU lawyer after reading this thread.
I’d say you’re overqualified
Where I live we also have the "right of withdrawal" but with one week instead of two weeks. But to be honest, I don't expect it to apply when I'm purchasing things outside of my country's jurisdiction, such as when I'm purchasing stuff from here and the reason for that is because I don't think the regulatory body of my country can impose it over HostHatch, or UltraVPS or any other provider I have used in the past.
Whenever I read an offer that states that no refunds will be given under any circumstances, I think very thoroughly whether I'm going to buy their service. This last promo from this thread, I bought it about 1 hour and half before the timer expired.
No, I didn't write that and in fact I don't think that.
And this is where you have your problem. Who's going to enforce it? If a business has nexus in the EU or property in the EU, then maybe you've got a chance. But if it doesn't? You'll never collect on that judgement.
Now, if countries have a bilateral treaty that would provide for enforcement measures, then that's different.
LowEndWithdrawalMethod
where them dealz at?
yeahhhh.
winning in a legal case depends on many factors, even if one has stronger ground
-- not a legal advice. Just sharing my opinion.
I see that you have problems understanding aspects related to the Hague Service Convention. You are not the first. Even many lawyers do not know what is available to every citizen residing in the signatory countries.
For example, if you are a U.S. resident and have contracted with a company in Bulgaria to provide certain services in the U.S., you can sue that company in the U.S. in the court that has jurisdiction over performance.
No foreign company can claim to be exempted from domestic laws on the grounds that their domicile and address is abroad. That company is providing services in competition (for example in the USA) in parallel to other companies (in the USA). Thus, all the laws applying to the domestic company (based in the USA) MUST apply to that company based in one of the Signatory States of the Hague Services Convention.
As of August 2023, 82 signatory countries are parties to the Hague Services Convention, as listed in Wikipedia below. It is an international instrument available to all citizens living there.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hague_Service_Convention
The Hague Conference on Private International Law (HCCH) has currently 91 Members: 90 States and 1 Regional Economic Integration Organisation, as seen on their official website below:
https://www.hcch.net/en/states/hcch-members
Below, you will find the Recognition and Enforcement of Foreign Judgments in Civil and Commercial Matters
https://www.hcch.net/en/instruments/conventions/full-text/?cid=78
As soon as an enforcement court (based in one of these 91 signatory states) has issued a judgment in favor of a plaintiff, this judgment can be enforced against a company (based in one of these 91 signatory states, for example in Bulgaria). To do so, an application for recognition of a foreign judgment in civil matters must be filed (in Bulgaria). The (Bulgarian) court will not examine whether the judgment in question (of the US court) was correct on the merits.
After the court (in Bulgaria), where the company is based, has issued a recognition order, enforcement of the claim (in Bulgaria) can begin.
In these 91 signatory states, there are hundreds of attorneys and agencies that carry out the recognition and enforcement proceedings as well as the final recovery against all companies domiciled in these states. The plaintiff must contract with them and initiate recovery (in Bulgaria).
It may take one or two years to obtain coverage. At the time of recovery, interest and costs must be borne by the defendant company (e.g. in Bulgaria) against which the judgment has been issued. The plaintiff (e.g. in the USA) must enter into contracts with lawyers or recovery agencies (in Bulgaria) and coordinate further action.
As mentioned in the example above, for a monetary claim of USD 100 (against the company in Bulgaria), the total cumulative monetary claim could easily reach USD 2,000 at the time of recovery due to the international proceedings.
I am informing you without referring to any specific dispute, company, etc. This is just a general discussion, as mentioned earlier, to share my personal experience with you all.
lowendlawyers
dude thinks this is chatgpt dumpground
no one gives a fuck tho
@MrWonder Welcome to lowend. You're supposed to buy things you don't need and idle them, not complain about buyer's remorse.
Sales Department — #606687
Please reply my ticket
Interesting. Good luck for incoming mental gymnastics.
This is a thread for people who prefer quality at a good price. We don't see many of you iHostArt fanboys here. Anyways, welcome!
The deals will be available for 24 hours again as promised (a couple of days late, sorry). They will be available in an hour from now and will expire tomorrow.
is it only 4GB compute available ?
All deals from the OP will be available for 24h. I will add this here for better clarification. https://www.tickcounter.com/countdown/5879281/sale-renewal-finish