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Opportunists don't ask questions. They jump in headfirst and deal with the consequences afterwards.
I'm not reading all of this, but is it the majorities opinion that over provisioning dedicated cores is wrong?
@hosthatch said on their sales thread that the definition of dedicated cores is that they won't be limited.
I think both "core that 100 % belongs to you" and "core that we won't limit" can be valid ways to interpret "dedicated cores".
I'm honestly having a hard time accusing @dataforest of any wrong-doing here.
If I were to sell dedicated cores at a low-end price point, my goals would be to:
1. Offer servers where I never limit CPU usage
2. Offer as little steal as possible given (1)
I'd not assign each VM a physical core. As long as there's an idle core that's ready for work 99,99 % of the time, that's good enough if it can mean a 2x over provisioning on CPU and therefore A LOT cheaper servers. People just don't use 100 % of their allocated resources. No need to waste perfectly good hardware because of it.
If you can't handle a tiny bit of steal a fraction of the time, get a dedicated server.
However, that's all in general. In this case, Avoro DID do something wrong, but I don't think their whole business idea is wrong, the wrong thing was to not have a hard-coded limit of one client not being too high of a % of a full hypervisor. I also disagree with their solution of provisioning a hypervisor only for this client. They should have spread out the VM's so that each group of VM's don't account for more than say 10 % of the load on that very hypervisor, or, if they don't have those resources, refund.
The logic of over provisioning don't work when a very high % of a hypervisor is the same client.
The benefit for the client when over provisioning, is that he or she might use "others" resources that they're idling, so that they may use "your" resources when you're idling. This, in the end, benefits clients just as it benefits providers. If the provider can provide more resources for less, everyone benefits. However, this win-win turns into a win-lose where the provider can keep their over provisioning margins and the client ends up not being able to take advantage of others idling when their VM's are deployed like that.
Also, I hate that I'm here calling threads cores. The VPS market destroyed the last bit of my common sense.
That's truly a terrible example, as it actually speaks in favor of your client.
When I rent a hotel room with a bathroom (toilet), it's really not my concern if all the other guests want to use the public toilets at the end of the lobby at the same time.
They wait in line, but I don't, because I can use my private bathroom whenever I want and for as long as I want as I paid for a room with a private (dedicated) bathroom.
I am not limited by other people's usage in any way. I can shit all day long without being limited by others who also need to shit at the same time.
If you want, we can offer you VPS with dedicated cores, we did the math
400x VPS x 9 eur/month = 3600 eur/mo (payment need minimum 6 months in advanced)
We build a big cluster with 22x HP Gen 9 servers with 2x e5-2699 v4 per server (Total 1936 cores) and 256 GB ram per server
Total cost of all this servers: 22k eur
We hosted similar projects recently we have lot of customers with this requests and all work fine
Never CPU go 100% https://uptime.ihostart.com/report/uptime/8eebef2e2db99c63e3f67503f3face1d/ we have a total of 5 nodes with this type of customers with crypto mining or LLM Projects
Since you are a big customer and all these nodes will be allocated just for you, we will give you full access to the Cluster of these 22 servers and you can see in real time the use of resources to see that we are not overselling
Regards,
Calin
Well either this or just not use 10+ year old hardware and deploy about 4 EPYCs...
>
They are for nothing CPU from the new generation, it makes a lot of CPU Usage which will be unstable, you need to keep a few VPS per server in order not to make a big load / be CPU steal
So they are for nothing new generation CPUs because they will perform worse than e5 2699 v4 because it's hosted more VMs per single node
Regards
Highly doubt that if you actually lock the VMs (and the system) to dedicated threads so they stay out of each others way. Obviously IO might be another topic but still.
Maybe. It's still a boat load of metal for what could be accomplished with a couple boxes. Even the EPYC cores/threads are weaker overall that doesn't make them any less dedicated.
Hey @dataforest how do you define
dedicated server? Is that a server that you have access to 100% of resources... as long as not all customers use 100% of all of their CPU cores dedicated server 24/7?Conclusion of this thread: The real 2 fast and 2 furious
Completely agree.
In fact, the website says that the cores are dedicated, as in actually dedicated. This is downright false advertising if it is not true.
I'd recommend the OP escalate the PayPal dispute. It would be the right thing to do at this point.
As i said to many times in LET , yall should avoid at all costs them dataforest or php friends.
But wait until you see another thread like this for Layer7 , because they crazy oversell.
lmao I love this
A good idea.
I hosted similiar Projects. For crypto. Something called Meson.
Customer needed 2000 VPS. So we built custom Cluster as Well where we could Optimize The nodes based on the needs of customer and made win win Situation. And of course additional subnets where rented too Back during this time.
Then we made custom OS Templates for customer and working with tools like ansible to Bring everything up with less work for customer and preinstalled his Software
@JabJab said:
Our dedicated servers are defined in the defacto manner for providers offering dedicated server at this price point... /s
translation: our new dedicated servers are actually dedicated core vps which actually are just regular run of the mill shared cpu best effort VPSs..
Someone used to work in timeshare sales I think, just waiting for the old scratch card to appear...
I hope the OP has been fully refunded after this blatant deception.
What did Hamlet say by Shakespeare?
I'm not saying he's right, but I think you misunderstood the example. I believe he meant the pipes etc.
It's pretty much the same, just on a bigger scale as this would still fall under overselling, not guaranteeing dedicated resources that are charged extra.
So, if that's the case, he made a case for overselling - again, not for guaranteeing dedicated resources that he charged extra.
The only exception to that could be some force majeure case, but this has nothing to do with overcommitment either
Timeshare sales guy would do the dedicated trick sometimes.
If they got someone unfamiliar with the scam, which is basically everyone they manage to get to presentation that wasn't a professional freebie seeker, they'd be invited to the resort, prizes and praise and shown a poolside apartment for what seem like hours, all very impressive, these would never mention it was time-share even when it came to pricing, old John and Mary would be it's not a bad deal with 80k usd oneoff, how nice is this... But at least the timeshare people would then declare it was partial ownership for X weeks per year, but you could buy other weeks if no one else was using it... Unfortunately the OP wasn't told at any point during the purchase.
You only get a dedicated toilet on which you can sit on, if the pipes get clogged by their other users then you'll have a very fun time. xD
You are a school, you rent all hotel rooms and all kids arrange to flush the toilet at the same time. What do you think it will happen, genius?
As always with lowendtalk, common sense has left the chat on this thread.
"dedicated" should probably be renamed to "unlimited".
It's not "unlimited" since provider takes effort to have zero steal per customer.
Now 100% dedicated is virtually impossible (pun intended) in any virtualized environment.
I thought that everybody knew how dedicated cores are achieved by these providers, apparently not.
Can you double my unlimited CPU?
provider on a side,
but if you're dropping >1000 euros, I think opening a sales ticket would be helpful, and there's chances you might get priority deployment and support.
try this out with your next adventure ^
My toilet in my home is dedicated. I expect the toilet available to me 24x7. Nobody allowed to use the toilet even when it's idle.
If anyone can use my toilet when it's idle, it's not dedicated, it's public toilet.
If everyone in the world go to toilet at the same time, the public toilet will have a long line queue, everyone else who have dedicated toilet will doing just fine.
This has nothing to do with dedicated cores (toilet seats), genius, but with, let's say, internet speed... which, again, has nothing to do with dedicated cores.
So much for common sense in blindly defending a host where it does not deserve it.
Exactly. They use completely irrelevant arguments like port speed/toilet pipes.
that to me is unlimited.
>
all the more it should be advertised as "unlimited".
i knew that, just since we on this topic, technically speaking its more unlimited than dedicated. this is not a bad product since its a good balance between price and bashing the CPU but advertise it as is.
Huh?
Yeah, Karen, go cry at the hotel manager that all kids had dedicated toilets.
At some point there should be a lowendictionary. I am used to think that codabo, wishhosting=unlmited, avoro, phpf, hetzner vds, netcup root = dedicated
Still irrelevant.
I am not defending host, in fact I dont like @dataforest , I still have a collectors dept for a php friends vds I forgot to cancel.
But throwing your shit in a thread disconnected from how the world works, just to attack to a host, is different.