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How to stop all negative reviews - Page 2
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How to stop all negative reviews

2

Comments

  • knewedgeknewedge Member
    edited May 2021

    DigitalBS doesn't have that ridiculous policy anymore.

  • darbdarb Member

    Slimeball move; definetly not legal anywhere; time to list these providers.

    @kuduku said:
    But the funny part is I haven't seen any major negative reviews or drama about the provider in last 5 months but they cant publicize financial details about anyone by just writing in their updated Terms of Service and Privacy Policy Updates

    You would't be referring to the shytstorm king of LET would you?

  • yoursunnyyoursunny Member, IPv6 Advocate

    @PandoGulf said:
    Well, a provider can put whatever he wants in its own TOS and the customer is equally free to skip it to the next competitor, who happen to provide better service and TOS.

    Customer doesn't have a choice if the provider modifies the ToS after the customer has signed up and agreed to the previous edition of the ToS that did not include such a section.
    Major cloud providers would give at least one billing cycle for the customer to review the ToS (possibly with an attorney paid by the customer), instead of sending an email saying they have a new ToS that take effect immediately.
    Well, at least they sent an email.

    Arguably, existing contracts should be bound to the ToS and AUP accepted during sign-up, which become part of the contract.
    If there's a substantial update to ToS and AUP (e.g. granting the right of publishing private information, decreasing CPU allocation), a new contract must be signed, which should take effect after the current billing cycle (i.e. contract period).


    @jsg said:
    Please, let me know which provider it is.

    I won't name the provider, not even via PM, because I don't want them to break my legs.
    I see a few guesses, but @LTniger and @caracal guessed wrong.

    Thanked by 1brueggus
  • darbdarb Member

    @yoursunny said:

    Customer doesn't have a choice if the provider modifies the ToS after the customer has signed up and agreed to the previous edition of the ToS that did not include such a section.
    Major cloud providers would give at least one billing cycle for the customer to review the ToS (possibly with an attorney paid by the customer), instead of sending an email saying they have a new ToS that take effect immediately.
    Well, at least they sent an email.

    Arguably, existing contracts should be bound to the ToS and AUP accepted during sign-up, which become part of the contract.
    If there's a substantial update to ToS and AUP (e.g. granting the right of publishing private information, decreasing CPU allocation), a new contract must be signed, which should take effect after the current billing cycle (i.e. contract period).

    But the TOS still can't violate the laws of the country that they are operating in and agreeing to the TOS doesn't nullify your rights under law of the country.

    Pure and simple it is a bully / intimidation move by a dirt bag.

  • jsgjsg Member, Resident Benchmarker

    @yoursunny said:
    I won't name the provider, not even via PM, because I don't want them to break my legs.

    Break your legs?! Are we talking about a deranged provider or about a crime gang?

  • pnklzpnklz Member
    edited May 2021

    @brueggus said: According to Google, these terms seems to be copy&pasted quite often between providers' ToS..

    I'm seeing at least 10 - Google search here. Also, pretty sure it's not legal anywhere to dox your customers xD

    EDIT: I just remembered back a while ago when I went in for a free trial of a VPS, the company undid my cancellation and tried to charge me over $500 for supposed overdue payment and threatened legal action. My full name was up on a publicly indexed list titled something like "criminally delinquent" along with over a thousand others for a while, until they either deadpooled, or more likely got shut down. Obviously I didn't pay, but it did freak me out for a hot second.

  • seriesnseriesn Member
    edited May 2021

    @jsg said:

    @yoursunny said:
    I won't name the provider, not even via PM, because I don't want them to break my legs.

    Break your legs?! Are we talking about a deranged provider or about a crime gang?

    Basically what @yoursunny does, if a provider doesn't offer IPv6.

  • @yoursunny said:
    A provider, who shall not be named, has included this section in their ToS:

    We have a zero tolerance policy for posting negative feedback on any public locations about our company and/or our employees before submitting a ticket to our "Suggestions & Complaints" Department to discuss your issue, this will result in immediate account termination without any refund.

    Although it is your right to post feedback without discussing your issue with us first, it is undoubtedly unfair and unprofessional not to, which is not the type of client that we want to deal with. We have the utmost respect for all of our clients, and are more than fair with all of our clients. We will do anything and everything possible to keep all of our clients satisfied. But in the unlikely event you are not satisfied, all that we ask is to discuss your issue with our Complaints Department first. For example, if you are the type of person to run to the forums at the first chance you get to complain, please DO NOT SIGNUP with example.com Inc in the first place.

    Furthermore, all of our policies that pertain to keeping information given to us confidential including but not limited to our privacy policy, confidentiality agreement, non-disclose agreement are nullified once you discuss your experience publicly. For example, if you make a negative post in public, then you are waiving your protection of privacy at example.com

    Sheer threatening :D :D :D

  • edited May 2021

    @Falzo said:
    heavily doubt that this would hold up in court anyway (not limited to european), but I also don't think that this is any kind of bigger/reputable host or provider anyway.
    name and shame!

    You'd be surprised. A very visible, publicly advertising, & seemingly reputable company called Platinum Server Management does exactly what @yoursunny describes in not only releasing your info, they make up lies to publicly trash you. They used the same doxing & trashing action on anyone that posted a negative public review so we were in good company.

    It was a long time ago & the details are fuzzy, but after I posted an honest but negative review, they released our info claiming that we had submitted to them some huge impossible number of support tickets totaling something like 200,000 tickets in just 3 months (don't remember the exact amount). Mind you we only had them managing 1 or 2 shared servers with less than 500 shared clients for a period of 3 months while we shifted our business to focus on providing dedicated servers (shared clients weren't as profitable so we decided to shift away).

    They reel you in by claiming in their ads that you can submit unlimited tickets but their service wasn't good and the representatives were rude while providing inferior service. WHT Administrators rarely took sides but I have utmost respect for Bear for taking a side:

    @bear said:
    Anyone that has [posted a negative review], as I recall, has been torn down and attacked, with you never in the wrong. Statistically, that's implausible.
    It should be enough for you to say "that's not the way it happened", without resorting to shaming and exposure of data given in confidence (your terms demand that of your customers: "Platinum Server Management, Inc. furthermore expects that its customers who provide Internet services to others will fully comply with all applicable laws concerning the privacy of online communications."). Those terms then waive that right for PSM, should anyone have the effrontery to post anything negative in public.

    I merely pointed out that the terms and methods employed by PSM serve to stifle all public negative commentary, so not finding much is not at all unexpected.

    Source: https://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?t=1779203&highlight=Platinum+server+management+bear

    Here's a section of their TOS:
    Public feedback
    We have a zero tolerance policy for posting negative feedback on any public location about our company and/or our employees before submitting a ticket to our Feedback department to discuss your issue will result in immediate account termination without any refund. Although it is your right to post feedback without discussing your issue with us first, it is undoubtedly unfair and unprofessional not to, which is not the type of client we want to deal with. We have the utmost respect for all of our clients, and are more than fair with all of our clients. We will do anything and everything possible to keep all of our clients satisfied. But in the unlikely event you are not satisfied, all that we ask is to discuss your issue with our Feedback department first. For example, if you are the type of person to run to the forums at the first chance you get to complain, please do not sign up with us. Furthermore, all of our policies that pertain to keeping information given to us confidential including but not limited to our privacy policy, confidentiality agreement, non-disclosure agreement are nullified once you discuss your experience publicly. For example, if you make a post in public, then you are waiving your protection of privacy.

    T.O.S. Source, scroll to the bottom:
    https://www.platinumservermanagement.com/TOS.html

  • jarjar Patron Provider, Top Host, Veteran
    edited May 2021

    I get the sentiment I guess. Like if your goal is to cost me a customer, we should break up immediately and if necessary I'll be the one to initiate the breakup, that kind of thing.

    I can also understand how it feels from a provider perspective to be bound by secrecy while your customer is allowed to go out and speak freely. Like "I can lie about what you said in a support ticket, and you can't prove me wrong because you'd be violating privacy" is a total dick way to take advantage of a reasonable expectation of privacy.

    There are less hostile ways to go about it. I put FraudRecord in my policy for chargebacks. Two companies I've publicly posted reviews for as a vendor who they entered into a business relationship with because I did business with them, I feel I have every right to give them a review (chargebacks + bad reviews by them). I can also speak freely to a customer who is very obviously not being spoofed in public by using non-specific language. For example "I understand your frustration but we do not take kindly to chargebacks" explains the problem without saying "Joe Dirt, husband of his sister, from 123 Main St filed a chargeback at 3:28pm."

    Thanked by 2Abd bulbasaur
  • zxrlhazxrlha Member

    :'( google tells me many providers have such TOS.

  • yoursunnyyoursunny Member, IPv6 Advocate

    @darb said:
    But the TOS still can't violate the laws of the country that they are operating in and agreeing to the TOS doesn't nullify your rights under law of the country.

    yoursunny summer host Inc is planning to open our next location on Jupiter.
    There are no laws or courts or police departments on Jupiter.
    Any disagreements may be discussed at Starfleet Headquarters.


    @seriesn said:

    @jsg said:

    @yoursunny said:
    I won't name the provider, not even via PM, because I don't want them to break my legs.

    Break your legs?! Are we talking about a deranged provider or about a crime gang?

    Basically what @yoursunny does, if a provider doesn't offer IPv6.

    There are 19 providers on the No IPv6 hall of shame.
    Whose leg did I break?

  • seriesnseriesn Member

    @yoursunny said:

    @darb said:
    But the TOS still can't violate the laws of the country that they are operating in and agreeing to the TOS doesn't nullify your rights under law of the country.

    yoursunny summer host Inc is planning to open our next location on Jupiter.
    There are no laws or courts or police departments on Jupiter.
    Any disagreements may be discussed at Starfleet Headquarters.


    @seriesn said:

    @jsg said:

    @yoursunny said:
    I won't name the provider, not even via PM, because I don't want them to break my legs.

    Break your legs?! Are we talking about a deranged provider or about a crime gang?

    Basically what @yoursunny does, if a provider doesn't offer IPv6.

    There are 19 providers on the No IPv6 hall of shame.
    Whose leg did I break?

    I don’t know. Lately I have been having hard time walking. It hurts.

    Thanked by 1drunkendog
  • jsgjsg Member, Resident Benchmarker

    @jar said:
    I get the sentiment I guess. Like if your goal is to cost me a customer, we should break up immediately and if necessary I'll be the one to initiate the breakup, that kind of thing.

    I can also understand how it feels from a provider perspective to be bound by secrecy while your customer is allowed to go out and speak freely. Like "I can lie about what you said in a support ticket, and you can't prove me wrong because you'd be violating privacy" is a total dick way to take advantage of a reasonable expectation of privacy.

    There are less hostile ways to go about it. I put FraudRecord in my policy for chargebacks. Two companies I've publicly posted reviews for as a vendor who they entered into a business relationship with because I did business with them, I feel I have every right to give them a review (chargebacks + bad reviews by them). I can also speak freely to a customer who is very obviously not being spoofed in public by using non-specific language. For example "I understand your frustration but we do not take kindly to chargebacks" explains the problem without saying "Joe Dirt, husband of his sister, from 123 Main St filed a chargeback at 3:28pm."

    I get your point and I can feel with you.

    But: at least in my books, a (ex-)customer smearing a provider based on lies hands that provider a free pass to defend himself; if falsified private communication is published by customer then provider obviously has the right to defend himself by publishing the true communication (as discrete or not discrete as customer chose to handle it).

    But if I'm not mistaken that's not what this thread is about. It is about some provider(s) utterly illegally trying to keep customers from (truly) reporting their experience and, so it seems, even using threats.

  • YmpkerYmpker Member
    edited May 2021

    @Mr_Tom said:
    I assume it's not an EU based host from the last bit.

    I just thought the same.

    @Falzo grab an ice-cold beer of your choice and have a good laugh, mate :)

    https://www.chango.ca/weird-terms-and-conditions/

    https://www.digitaljournal.com/business/report-finds-only-1-percent-reads-terms-conditions/article/566127

    Thanked by 1Falzo
  • raindog308raindog308 Administrator, Veteran

    @jar said: There are less hostile ways to go about it.

    @jar doesn't retaliate if you post "Jarland is stupid".

    Thanked by 1jar
  • @yoursunny said:
    I won't name the provider, not even via PM, because I don't want them to break my legs.

    Think of how much better your push-up form will be with casts on your legs!

  • jarjar Patron Provider, Top Host, Veteran

    @raindog308 said:

    @jar said: There are less hostile ways to go about it.

    @jar doesn't retaliate if you post "Jarland is stupid".

    I play the long game. The hole I put in your tires is so small you won’t feel until next year, but come next year, I get the last laugh.

  • yoursunnyyoursunny Member, IPv6 Advocate

    @jsg said:
    But if I'm not mistaken that's not what this thread is about. It is about some provider(s) utterly illegally trying to keep customers from (truly) reporting their experience and, so it seems, even using threats.

    I do not have a current negative experience with this unnamed provider.
    This thread is a neutral discussion on this section of the recently updated ToS.


    @raindog308 said:

    @jar said: There are less hostile ways to go about it.

    @jar doesn't retaliate if you post "Jarland is stupid".

    There's a video titled "Jarland is stupid" on https://pushups.ndn.today

    Since this video was posted, MXroute inbound servers are adding "spam" tags to emails that contain the word "push-ups" and sent from a server without RDNS record.


    @TimboJones said:

    @yoursunny said:
    I won't name the provider, not even via PM, because I don't want them to break my legs.

    Think of how much better your push-up form will be with casts on your legs!

    I had casts in 1999 and crutches in 2013.
    Neither is a pleasant experience.

  • PulsedMediaPulsedMedia Member, Patron Provider

    @JoeMerit said: the best way to stop negative reviews is to engage with all negative reviewers and secretly give them more resources and/or remove limiting off their cores/storage etc in exchange for switching to a positive review.

    Kill them with kindness approach? :D

  • raindog308raindog308 Administrator, Veteran

    @jar said: I play the long game. The hole I put in your tires is so small you won’t feel until next year, but come next year, I get the last laugh.

    image

    Thanked by 3jar jsg Aidan
  • wotetiwoteti Member

    Terminating a business relationship can be done for any fucking reason.

    Not refunding (where/when it's required) and violating customer's privacy is illegal in most of the developed world.

  • yoursunnyyoursunny Member, IPv6 Advocate

    @woteti said:
    Terminating a business relationship can be done for any fucking reason.

    Not refunding (where/when it's required) and violating customer's privacy is illegal in most of the developed world.

    What if, the provider deletes your VPS and refunds you to store credit only?
    Then, they let you keep your account, but if you try to order a new device with the store credit, you would be forced to agree to their new terms that include sections you disagree with.

    I had a similar scenario happen to me, in a different universe.

    I bought a restaurant gift card, but the restaurant closed all their locations within 100km from me.
    I had to complain to the attorney general office, who wrote a letter to the restaurant corporation.

    Eventually I got a refund via cheque, but it's their goodwill and not really a legal requirement.

  • JoeMeritJoeMerit Veteran

    @PulsedMedia said:

    @JoeMerit said: the best way to stop negative reviews is to engage with all negative reviewers and secretly give them more resources and/or remove limiting off their cores/storage etc in exchange for switching to a positive review.

    Kill them with kindness approach? :D

    Happens here all the time with shady hosts here. Someone complains about not being able to do something on a massively oversold plan and then magically the host 'fixes' them up and the complainer has never been happier.

    Thanked by 1yoursunny
  • wotetiwoteti Member
    edited May 2021

    @yoursunny said:
    What if, the provider deletes your VPS and refunds you to store credit only?
    Then, they let you keep your account, but if you try to order a new device with the store credit, you would be forced to agree to their new terms that include sections you disagree with.

    I had a similar scenario happen to me, in a different universe.

    I bought a restaurant gift card, but the restaurant closed all their locations within 100km from me.
    I had to complain to the attorney general office, who wrote a letter to the restaurant corporation.

    Eventually I got a refund via cheque, but it's their goodwill and not really a legal requirement.

    It's all shades of grey that have to be argued in court case-by-case on a big enough dispute.

    Most of the time, LET disputes are too small to matter that they end up with one side conceding randomly, wrong or right. So we'll never find out who has the stronger legal argument.

  • raindog308raindog308 Administrator, Veteran

    Just covered this thread on LowEndBoxTV, and gave mentions to @yoursunny and @pnklz

  • HosterlabsHosterlabs Member
    edited May 2021

    Who doesn't love drama :)

    Thanked by 1skorupion
  • yoursunnyyoursunny Member, IPv6 Advocate

    @Hosterlabs said:
    Who doesn't love drama :)

    We need three drama threads every week!

  • DPDP Administrator, The Domain Guy

    @yoursunny said:

    @Hosterlabs said:
    Who doesn't love drama :)

    We need three drama threads every week!

    Have we been getting that lately? 😄

  • @yoursunny said:

    @Hosterlabs said:
    Who doesn't love drama :)

    We need three drama threads every week!

    I like you because although you troll me/us a lot, you help us a lot find loopholes, errors and misunderstandings. You have earned your free services with us.

    Thanked by 1brueggus
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