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I wasn't talking about the prices.
I don't quite have the specific article, but to my knowledge (and I know @Damian helped me a ton with this one) the Terms of Service is a contract. In the United States, the terms of a contract cannot be changed without an agreement from both parties (aka Provider and Client both have to approve of the changes). This is why other companies when they change their Terms of Service send out an e-mail and state "If you continue using our services after [date], you accept the changes to the Terms of Service. If you do not agree, we are willing to provide a pro-rated refund of your services for the time remaining." or something.
@HalfEatenPie
Where did you see me saying that including "without notice"?
Yeah. Why provide it otherwise? Business isn't a shiny toy.
@HalfEatenPie
Oh.. I didn't even take notice of "or terms", in my OP I stated "TOS can be changed at any time, notification 30 days in advance" though
Oh ok then yeah that's fine (as long as you follow through on that notifications part).
Sorry I read "or terms" and immediately a red flag went up.
A ToS should not be for that, but for additional insurance to justify any actions you would have to take against an infringing client.
Yes exactly. The whole point of ToS is a better position in legal battles. Which is why @bamn's comment made no sense.
Legal battle = court
Most of your "legal battles" = using CAPS and lots of !!!!!!!s in a support ticket then you threaten the following
The Terms of Service should be used as a tool for the provider to maintain proper use of their services. Its not immediately to say "oh you violated this I'm going to whack you in the head with it." but more of a "Hey I've outlined what I expect from my clients to follow". If your use of the server ruins the other users' experience then they have the right to refuse you service (which is legal under United States law).
Watch it @bamn! I'll e-lawyer you! He'll send you threatening e-mails and got his lawyer degree from an online un-accredited college!
I agree with you both @averell and @bamn
Typically, clients who pay $5-7 dollars won't lawyer up, it's just not logical. Sure they may drag your name through the mud on forums and what not, but those are typically incoherent and often disregarded.
All depends on the level of service you offer. If you're renting out cages in a datacenter, you better be damn sure you clearly represent yourself in your TOS. If you're renting out $6/year VPS, I would still suggest a strong TOS but wouldn't worry about lawyering up.
Yes, that can be a nice benefit, but wobbly ToS clauses like "fair use" and "offensive to staff -> termination" and especially "we reserve the right to terminate a client for any or even without specifying a reason" don't help with that. (Or anything else either)
Well @averell, personally for me (and this is all my opinion), you'd have to trust the provider to work with you to get your VPS working. In my opinion I find the provider perfectly justifiable (if they're a legitimate host) if they have that in their Terms of Service clause.
Also, in the USA its legal right for the provider to not service anyone they don't want to. This wound fall under "offensive to staff".
I'd think you could make a case for abusiveness. But a cancel for any or no reason is just not valid. Of course you can put it in there, but all it does is make your ToS look amateur. You might as well put in there "Any and all client property shall be transferred to GreedyVM if such action is necessary". Also nice from a provider point of view, but if you act on it and get sued, you lose.
Well I don't see it as amateurish. I guess you and I just disagree on certain things.
I like the "don't be a dick" clause that @mitgib invented ;-)
Nevermind.
My personal favorite ToS:
Such language makes it impossible to establish any additional privacy policy for a client's site/service. I am amazed that clients apparently agree to a term like this (the Taz theory probably explains it).
If a radio station (Shoutcast or whatever) is about to be hosted, I'd be nice to let the users know that they need a license and request them to scan it and send a copy to you.
No license = no stream...
Radio station without a license is piracy.
IANAL, but wouldn't this be a lot of work for nothing (at least for US providers) because DMCA means you don't have to give a rat's ass thanks to safe harbor -- and you'd have to at least have a cursory knowledge of which licensing organization applies to what content, etc.
In low end budget segment maybe where "every" amateur write (or rather copy/paste) TOS only to cover own ass however any serious TOS isn't just about rights of company and obligations of customer but about rights and obligations of both parties. It maintain relationships between two (or more) parties. (facebook as example call it Statement of Rights and Responsibilities). TOS should include more than just restrictions and potential penalization otherwise it's just like @averell said "What would you write ToS for? To feel good after terminating a client?".
Or that's only in EU where customer still have some rights?
Uh, bullshit. You realize that there is plenty of music that you can perfectly legally stream without any kind of individual license?
@joepie91: Where are you from? Or where are you atm?
In Germany GEMA will "f**k" you when you have no license for anything.
We have to pay special taxes for listening/playing music in the public aka discotaxes and whatnot.
Youtube: over 50% GEMA blocked videos
Both me and joepie91 are in the Netherlands, so is my datacenter, not planning on going outside the country for hosting :P
You have it good in the NL.
We in Germany are "f****d" by GEMA day by day with video blocks everywhere and more stupid taxes about licensing music and other stuff everywhere.
Thanks good we can't simply start a radio or whatever without the proper licenses and agreements.
I have a question about the inability to sell goods to some countries that the USA hates. Doesn't this rule only include items that you are exporting? When your selling a service your not exporting any goods.
Yes you can, just go with a hoster that is in a country where you can.
Edit: colo, bandwidth and power are all expensive in the Netherlands, not many datacenters and only few affordable ones, everything has pros and cons...
I meant inside Germany
.
I'm in the Netherlands.
No, they won't. Not if you keep proper track of what you are playing and what license it is under. Hell, you can even get an official certificate from services like Jamendo (Creative Commons music) that certify you have the right to play all the music they offer.
Try calling them. Tell them that you wish to unsubscribe for GEMA taxes/fees, and they will tell you that you will need to submit proof that you have a valid license for the music you are playing, or are going to play only music for which a valid public license exists. Go on, try it.