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And they should be, but only of they're intelligent enough to do it right
We started YDGH with the 'No Overselling' tagline... and we actually did it....but then we said... 'hey why are we not overselling again? our nodes are sitting X% idle at all times.'
@jarland thank you! Well said. The only way to make a profit in this business is to oversell, but you have to set logical limits and review each server to make sure it is not being way over subscribed.
@Corey Seriously. At what I call nearly oversold capacity I'm seeing maybe 30% of the resources in use.
@pubcrawler - This:
@jarland @24khost, agree that overselling happens to some degree.
Overselling on idle nodes that are predictable, settled and lingering is fine. But, it is a fine art. Can't just pack 20 newbie offer takers onto a fresh node or even a populated node without regulating heavy initial use (benchmarking, speed tests, MySQL populations, etc.).
The overselling I am talking about is people packing already too busy servers with too high load, 75% of the RAM hitting swap and transfer speeds that are pathetic.
We definitely don't do that. It's insane. The risks are too high. Not worth the extra money.
How does that apply to me when I colocate all my machines and own them? My colocation is not near $200/month. If I was renting, it wouldn't be possible, yes.
None of our RAM EVER hits swap or even comes close to it. I wouldn't consider transfer speeds of 100+ pathetic either? Again, making allegations over an alias with no proof to backup your answer, just slander, and that's all it is.
@pubcrawler, do you have some sort of personal vendetta against CVPS? Every post I've see you made in this thread has either been speculations, fiction or just pure slander with little to no proof. You have no idea about their business operations, so just stop speculating and let it be.
CVPS gets credit for having good bandwidth. Thank Colocrossing for that and Chicago. Won't kick them on that.
Now this gem:
That's a joke right? Or is it an empty node?
Your VPS'es have a long history of hitting swap and hitting it hard. Saw the same sort of heavy swap numbers firsthand. Routine reboots were the hack temp fix. System IO? It's busy swapping.
see: http://www.lowendtalk.com/discussion/1404/chicagovps.net-overselling-lies-and-overall-customer-fraud/p2
by: @Coolin
date: February 9, 2012
Surely, tons of others from more technical side out there.
I won't go into the economics of colo'ing populated servers, it's better margins, but it isn't free enough to justify $5 plans at 2GB. Yeah, even with full rate folks in the mix. 32GB boxes hold 16 legitimate 2GB plans or 32 at 200% overselling = $224/mo.
@Victor, nothing personal. You are a Colocrossing customer aren't you? Seems like a lot of the CVPS defenders have a dog in CVPS/Colocrossing kennel.
I've been over the the issues here with CVPS getting ample positive coverage just because and loading the deck unfairly with other mock brands and resellers hawking their goods. BuffaloVPS is numero uno example. End of Reality keeps coming up.
Stuff like the LEB ad frequency for CVPS on LEB is legendary:
ChicagoVPS, 5 offers on LEB this year.
ChicagoVPS + BuffaloVPS offers on LEB last year = 9 + 7 = 16 offers last year
Compare that to BuyVM, with 3 LEB offers in 2012 and 4 in 2011.
As the notable @Aldryic said back in February about CVPS:
BuyVM never has stock, hence why they never post. Second, BuyVM is a ColoCrossing customer, did you forget that?
We had an issue back in January yes, but since then was fixed. Again, your forgetting all the positive things said about us and pointing out the....
Of course if grows from just a few to 30,40 and 50... WERE GROWING.
I cant make everyone happy, but 99.9% are. So what exactly are you getting at?
Actually for the last few months they've had stock quite often. They just don't need to push it with LEB offers, as it sells out very quick.
Fran mentioned not being happy about possibly being lied to about your relationship with Jon & CC in the other thread. He's put a lot of equipment and infrastructure in a data center that's essentially run by someone who's good friends with a competitor.
I personally know a LEB host who moved to CC (who hasn't?) in Buffalo a few weeks before this and doesn't feel great about the relationship between you & Jon, regardless of the further relationship that's been insinuated.
they have
@Kris,
Your last response is null and void. No one lied about anything on my end. Myself and Jon are friends in real life, and have been far before ChicagoVPS or ColoCrossing were even thought of.
The only lies being told here are how ColoCrossing and ChicagoVPS are one. We are seperate, we conduct our own business, and have our own clients. When Fran sent his stuff to Buffalo, I wasnt even allowed to go in the room they were in for security purposes, and respect of fellow providers.
I have nothing to hide, I am doing nothing shady. The only reason it seems that way is because people want to make it seem that way and spew out lies.
Now people are looking at me and coming down hard on me, saying I'm lying etc. etc. Lets just give me the benefit of the doubt for ONE second and think about this....
If I am indeed telling the truth ( which I am ) how is any of this fair at all to ChicagoVPS? I have went out of my way to provide a good product at a price point that up until recently was never touched. We have been doing it for 2 years with minimal to no downtime until the past incident.
Again, this is just me trying to explain things but know @pubcrawler will just come back and say something else that is fantasized and untrue just to try and bad mouth us some more.
But before you go ahead and jump on his band wagon, just think about the other side of the story, or dont, that is up to you.
You're playing with fire young one. Careful.
When it comes to us and colocrossing it's strictly business. It's rare either side does any favors for the other. They bill me for any tech work that they do, in full, and in return we hold them to everything our contract states and expect reasonable timelines be met.
Jon's also aware that if he's caught lying to us that it'd put an end to anymore growth with colocrossing and we'd simply grow with one of the other 3 - 4 offers I got on the east coast that near matched his.
As you can see I've yet to come to defend either side in the matter because I've always questioned much of what the community does. I praise CC for the good service they provide me but it's extremely rare that it's Jon that jumps in on my ticket unless he's PRing it up. Usually Chuck or Jeremiah chewed through most of my tickets and both deserve either a raise or a severance package and a break from the no-compete.
But hey, that's my take on things.
Francisco
Ok guys just stop this hate crime/circle jerk already.
No point insulting Chris, I think we did enough of that in the last 14 pages.
As far as I know Jon doesn't do tickets that much unless its more related to billing. Yes he has the knowledge to do anything tech related at ColoCrossing, but he has put his time in while building it to what it is today. They have expanded their team to over 8 the past few months and think Jon deserves a break and let the people hes PAYING to do the work while he focuses on other aspects of the business.
Hetzner EX10 (i7-3930K, 64GB RAM, 2x3TB HDD, 10TB@100Mbit) = 109E/mo + 149E setup
-19% vat = 91.60E/mo + 125.21E setup
Convert to USD and round up = $117/mo + $160 setup
Of course it excludes IPs and a single RAID1 array isn't optimal, but you asked me for a 64GB server under $200, I delivered. The setup fee can easily be spread across multiple months if you feel it's cheating. Hell, add on $16 for the flexi-pack, plus two /28s and a /29 ($30) — that's only $163/mo, and it now has all the IPs you need. At that point, you're only missing RAID10, and with RAID1, you could probably squeak by (those drives would be murdered though). Pay a little extra for two more drives, toss on a few more VMs and bump up the overselling by a bit — tada, there's your VPS node!
It's a lot more than that. Insurance, SolusVM license, support costs, other operating costs. And that's Hetzner. Seen enough issues here @ LET.
You know what Chris, I think you are capable, as a sale person. You could sell ice to Eskimos.
Your VPS service is fine for folks who aren't paying attention or who like to have 2GB of RAM they never use and show it off as their e-penis. Yeah, it's a bargain for that audience. Everyone else, well, buyer beware. Hobbyists, fine, maybe. Business use, maybe if serving flat HTML with Nginx.
I am sure you are playing games to magnify the limited servers you have deployed. 32GB of RAM servers are being beefed up likely with SSD's as RAM. Explains the cost points as well as the flaky IO on the servers.
Colocrossing has been outed at least once for being versed in and recommending this to customers:
"Our initial communication didn't lead anywhere as what they were offering/suggesting for us to do with the proposed servers just didn't make sense (Selling 50k IOPS SSDs as Swap in place of memory to customers)"
[see: http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?t=1111564]
That said, the Colocrossing / New Wave NetConnect relationship is going to continue to be a big pain for both companies. Folks like Colocrossing's network, but many have issues with them and you from a sell the sky and deliver the ground heavy sales blowjob to get the business. Plus, your relationships are more than weird. You've worked for Jon in the past as a sales person. The two of you live down the road from each other. Walking distance in my world. You grew up together. You both "employed" Jeremiah, at the same time. I'll stop there with just facts.
The world catches you and John and other personas who you aren't in ownership or partnership mode with but are in the very same business as, hanging out on the same shared IPs, posting back to back. Jon wastes time on WHT doing lead gen for you? WTF? Colocrossing offers their own Cloud/VPS solutions. Makes no sense.
It's weirdness, all the time. That's just all gonzo. Nothing has that much coincidence. It's like telling me you didn't inhale when I saw you taking that hit.
Now, ignore all that @CVPS_Chris, answer the one important question everyone wants to know:
Why are you keeping Jeremiah from opening his mouth with a likely legally unenforceable NDA?
@JTR, that Hetzner box while capable isn't in the parking lot of what a VPS should be.
Start with that unacceptable 100Mbit connection. 10TB? That's good for selling 30TB worth. That might work if you find dead folks who need VPS'es.
Plus it's Hetzner.
No one said it was on your end. There's nothing that's been said about the relationship between the companies, shared IPs that promote both companies, your home in Buffalo, etc. that I will bother restating.
I just hopped in because of the BuyVM comment, since I use them now as a primary box, and signed up in the last few months. Honestly, all I said was things may not have been presented or disclosed fully to Fran when he signed up at CC, again not you.
They provide a solid network, just some shady things have come to light in terms of their somewhat understated relationship with you and, other things brought up in this thread. I never said you misstated a thing.
Simply put, BuyVM has stock quite often.
Their lack of offers on LEB merely seems to suggest they usually do sales for special occasions or holidays, rather than the normal "Let's fill her up guys, it's Wednesday" special, that we see so often.
Look up the meaning of it. You sound so bored with these biased walls of text.
If you're going to mention me, at least do it properly so i know you have said something. At the end of the day i started this whole thing regarding Chris posting undercut promos on providers offers which was and still is wrong, it wasn't about anything else which has been brought up.
Everything else came as it came, through Chris's attitude more than anything.
Then @Chief goes and proves my point, acting like a child and insulting us (Like he has done multiple times with other smaller hosts) instead of actually addressing any of the points raised in this thread.
The old LEA would have been behind us all the way and would have probably had a front page post shaming CVPS by now, greedy Chief only cares about the cash money involved and doesn't want to bite the hand that feeds him.
That's the last thing im going to say on the matter, especially since i will probably get banned by the powers that be for actually speaking out.
Comment removed. I no longer think it's bashing.
@Ishaq cause he has done it? I am not kicking him anymore had my fun with him. Now I hope he gets everything fixed up.
Mhm. Right.
In all fairness, it's a bit expected. Chris has always done it to other providers here. I'm not saying that I don't respect his tactics, because sitting at the bottom and crying foul at the person on top just stinks of jealousy. Doesn't matter if you won fairly if you're the one holding the trophy and no one is taking it from you. The one holding the prize money doesn't care how you feel about it. However, when you fall off that pedestal, even if only for a moment, better believe there's a beating waiting for you at the bottom
What goes around comes around, Chris would have known perfectley well that if something like this happened to him the shit would be flying at him from all angles for a long stretch and that's precisely where we are.
I have a box with them, only a DNS server but it perfoms well and does it's job, I am happy with that but I can also understand and appreciate why this post has grown so big
@Zetta,
NDA's I am real familiar with. Use to deal with acceptance and filing of them for venture deals from both sides
Jere wasn't some standard employee. He did have an equity role, unless he's a liar too
But that I REALLY doubt.
Seen this 1000 times, bogus NDA that says if you leave our company for any reason you have a year cooling off period where you can't work for competitors. But, often this means anything to with said industry very loosely.
Courts frown more and more heavily about such bullying.
"California's courts and legislature have signaled that they generally value an employee's mobility and entrepreneurship more highly than they do protectionist doctrine."
The solution to such BS is to lash back with legal bullying of your own, when push out the door comes to shoving.