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It's fun to read that, since for many western countries Russia is just as much fraud as Ukraine or the other countries that you've mentioned. In Russia and Ukraine there are many payment processors that do not charge back, but you're likely insisting on using trash like Paypal just for the sake of having as many clients as possible.
This inevitably results in a decrease in quality of service which explains the use of trash to filter your network.
No you don't, you were filtering William's server's connectivity without his consent. The only thing that makes your company a little better than others that are filtering their network unbeknownst to their clients/users is that you have a page that says you have a "firewall". But I highly doubt that this is made evident when ordering a service.
Lies, there are way more organizations fighting against this. You obviously don't because if you would participate in those conversations I would have already seen you there and you would have never considered establishing some filtering on your network.
How its related to spammers?
they pay via all kind of payment gateway, problem is "SPAM" and "FRAUD" and not the charge back or how they pay to us. And no, we dont insist on nothing, we accept paypal, webmoney, bank cards, wire transfers, yandex money, qiwi and in couple of month will accept bitcoin officially (because we are moving some of our parts out of Russian jurisdiction)
I highly doubt that you know the difference between censorship/"following country order" and security.
We are protecting our infrastructure and our clients here and you are insulting us in censorship. Again - these measures help us drastically to fight against spammers/malware and other threats and its nothing to do with "net neutrality".
Any client who is experiencing ANY problems will be white listed right away (we had 4 problems total in 1 year:) and all of them were whitelisted without any questions asked)
Im sorry, i didnt know that you are an ambassador of "freedom of the internet league"
I'll tell you more, its us who created first precedent that uplink provider doesnt have a right to filter a downlink (according to Роскомандзор "list") and at the moment we dont use RETN for IP transit because of this (they technically cant remove their filters)
If you really really want to talk about this I can say that for us typical customer from "RU" is a pain in the ass too
Our client base is 80% non-russian/non-CIS and we prefer it this way. Pure math/business - its far more "expensive" to give qualified service to ex-USSR than to other clients/countries.
p.s. we also looking for a way how to get rid of paypal, we tired of their behaviour and 4% tax.
What? So you're are not serving the United States of America I presume, since that's where most spammers reside.
You are not protecting clients, that's an intellectual fraud. If you would really be protecting them because you firmly believe that this is how they should be protected then you would give them the ability to activate this on their very service and you would inform them explicitly.
The obligations were lifted because of a large pressure by hosting providers - Not just you or "2" others companies as you mentioned.
It does not matter, you are sponsoring the blacklisters and you give them the power to facilitate their extortions.
It seems that USA citizens are not using our services for spam) they have their own ways I think so no problem with them.
I agree with your second sentence. When we will be able to give this option to every client personally we will do so and it will be perfect situation (we are working on it)
Can you give me a link as an example please ( think you can PM me because it is starting to be personal discussion )? When we came (as a hosting and as ISP) to Retn and Roskomadzor with this issue it took them 3 month to make a final decision and they also told us that it was a first precedent (we did it 6 month ago). Local branch of RKN (roskomadzor here and after) in Saint Petersburg told us that Retn has no right to do so then they moved this case to Moscow and there Deputy Head of RKN O.A.Ivanov wrote us that RETN did nothing wrong when they filtered our clients for us(we are not using RETN anymore). Next stop for us will be "Ministry of Telecom and Mass Communications" but its another story ))
I believe that you are talking about SPAMHAUS here? Maybe you meant that we are "supporting" them by using DROP lists and not sponsoring? We are using their DROP list as a part of emergingThreats lists. All I can say that they never blackmailed us, threat us or our colleagues in hosing/telco market, I know there are stories from spamhaus ex-workers and etc but this is what i think :
1) situation with spamhaus should be changed ASAP before it will be too late.
2) stories about them should be taken with a pinch of salt (they are still bad guys)
It looks like you're still looking for the ideal world and want to be white and fluffy in any situation, there is unlikely to succeed.
Don't worry @vStoike, there are many trolls on this forum, don't take them seriously, we know you're a good provider. @William was even banned before.
Not at all, just explaining our position and trying to be as much objective as one person could be.
Thank you, now we worry a little bit less) Its first negative thread about us in 2+ years (maybe I missed something else?) and we are not used to be under pressure. Next time when we want to implement something radical we will first do investigation in the "field" and ask our customers.
Reminiscent of the story of the white gloves and dirty shit. I advise you to establish a World PIA association with active members
Good one
@vStoike so what's the promo code?
Always surprised how some stubbornly want to hate those who keep them alive
Only for you. Code "giveussomelove"
You won in sarcasm battle. I give up.
Try ''fornonpiamembersonly''
I see the usual regulars are ganging up on people again. Seems to be status quo around here these days.
Done right, public blacklists are a useful tool. People who discount them outright don't know what they are talking about. I'm not familiar with the one mentioned here though.
And it just comes down to "if you don't like it, don't use it" - no one is forcing anyone.
I am very familiar so do not discount my experience if you have zero idea.
Blocklist.de is proven unreliable and questionable.
I think that the blocking IP addresses due to spam is a bad idea if shared hosting for example uses a lot of people it is impossible to block all because one spammer.
Is proven by who? Can you share a link please, maybe there is a solid discussion about it on reddit or somewhere else.
And when you writing that you are "very familiar" how can I check or trust it? Maybe your name is Richard Bejtlich or someone else well known in "IT security" world?
Its a bad idea of course but we mainly discuss blocklist.de here and its not a spamlist. Blocklist.de is fail2ban(network attacks, malware, abuse and etc) in a first place (its reports of course can be used to filter spam)
I think @vStoike does not want you as customer anymore @William.
While i do realize that using commonly found community blacklists to avoid spam and whatnot is a bad practice.
However this thread served only the purpose of getting @William´s way, even tho he tried to hide it behind the fact and manipulate the readers. Bring out the tar and pitchforks gang then stepped in.
Since your helpdesk was polite enough to get to the point.
Customer is always right , @vStoike. Remember that.
However you as a business also reserve the right to refuse the service.
lion, trust me hell cry foul, if hes service would be terminated instantly due to the thread.
Good ol´ @William eh. Forgive me for beeing blunt.
I agree, terminate his services for causing this drama! If I was VStoike he would be gone with 7 days notice.
+1 for VStoike from me I've been with them for maybe near a year now. I currently have 3 plans with them and never any issues and good support (rarely needed).
They most certainly are not.
The problem here is that the only thing you should or want to be dropping for the most part is bogon/hijacks (so spamhaus DROP).
It's unreasonable and completely insane to consider using SBL/XBL. It's even more insane to use blocklist, which isn't even spam. These are meant strictly for application level blacklisting.
Blocklist is literally just a feed of fail2ban logs, which means any user submitting can get any IP banned, you could even be listed on it for typoing your password a few times on a different hosting provider's control panel. It has nothing to do with spam. Their delist page is a bloody affiliate link and covered in ads.
Typical Ebay and PP practice,but not always.
If this was a different provider the thread would go to Off-topic days ago.
Jesus Christ . . . it's basically a list of fail2ban logs and these guys are using that for black-holing? I mean, everyone has the right to run their network how they see fit, but . . .
I am not normally one to defend people, but I totally disagree here. I think the issue @William brought up was a relevant one. No provider should without telling you randomly use some blocklist (especially the one that is being mentioned here) that they don't even control to block things on their network, that just ridiculous. The list mentioned is meant to be used by small/medium business who want extra protection on their firewall, not on an ISPs firewall where they have thousands of customers behind it. Granted they have taken the correct action in this thread of either offering to remove blocks and/or have removed that blocklist completely, though they should probably not be doing this to start with. If you were one of the people who had a false positive on that list using their services you would come here and complain too, just so happens you haven't been that lucky yet.
I think the thread had the desired effect as it seems @vStoike has rethought their use of that blocklist. So I see no reason why this would be moved to off topic, if anything is shows that @vStoike is trying to be helpful/cooperative in fixing the issue. I think most people can see that for them selves.
If people reading this thread can't figure that out for them selves then they probably shouldn't be purchasing/managing a VM/VPS anyways, so I am not sure who you are trying to protect here.
my 2 cents.
Cheers!