netcup nice offer

ZweiTiger

@didtav said:

@ayukas said:

@mehargags said:

@didtav said:
Tried to grab one and asked for the VAT to be removed but got this reply.

sinc3 you do not live in Europe you have to pay tha German VAT of 19%.
The VAT of 19% have to charge in your own country with your Financial Department .

What is this mean? I don't understand

Try to escalate the issue to another rep/manager. If you do not live in EU you don't need to pay VAT. I have a server with them without VAT. Sometimes the holiday replacement new comers are not much informed.

I met this problem too, and two of their staff insist that I should pay the VAT if I'm a private user.

have you got your vat removed?

I decide to cancel my order since they don't want to remove VAT from my invoice in anyway even after i sent my id card.

and the 80Mbit/s cap. if I really decided to go with them, I seriously need to transfer some files that depending connection will need more than 15 minutes. I think they will throttle me before I finish the transfer

VAT+80Mbit/s cap = good stopper

I will stay with hetzner

Sometimes i transfer 800GB. Over 80mbit+ over 15 minutes. The support said the 80mbit is a "virtual limit" 10TB include in all package, after that they limit your connection.

Thats all.

They are not bad at all

willie

ZweiTiger said: Sometimes i transfer 800GB. Over 80mbit+ over 15 minutes.

800GB at 80mbit would be about 24 hours.

Falzo

@willie said:

Falzo said: place of fulfillment

Well what exactly is the place of fulfillment? Is it where the server is? Where the hosting company is? Or is it where the customer is?

THAT exactly is the point it is all about! Regarding to the german law this depends on the customer being a business or not. Complicated... but not netcups fault. After all that's what I wanted to point out.

For the bw limit I also did some extensive tests and never got limited, while also using more then that average 80mbit for longer than 15 minutes. Yet I also never pushed more than a TB per month over...

They probably have no interest in telling how and when exactly the limit occurs to be some kind of flexible ;-)
And they changed that limit at least for their newer product lines lately like @ZweiTiger already pointed out to have included bw before the other rule even applies...

willie

Falzo said: Regarding to the german law this depends on the customer being a business or not.

Well, which way? I don't think I signed up with Hetzner as a business. I don't think they asked.

Falzo

@willie said:

Falzo said: Regarding to the german law this depends on the customer being a business or not.

Well, which way? I don't think I signed up with Hetzner as a business. I don't think they asked.

Paragraph 3 of Umsatzsteuergesetz says place of fulfillment is where the service is delivered. In case of servers that is most probably the location of the datacenter as it's a "Betriebsstätte" of the provider. EXCEPTION to this is the case of servicing another business which makes the location of that other business the place of fulfillment.

There has been a lot messing around this with MOSS and such lately, but those are the general rules in germany as I am aware of.

Regarding hetzner I can't tell what or how they are doing, as I am within germany and get billed locally. Maybe they have a non europe branch which bills you in case you are from foreign country? Like with OVH having branches located in different countries doing their own billing...

willie

My bills always come from Hetzner with a German address. I don't know what they're doing either. I'd have guessed the services are delivered to my billing address, but it sounds like I'm wrong.

Falzo

@willie said:
My bills always come from Hetzner with a German address. I don't know what they're doing either. I'd have guessed the services are delivered to my billing address, but it sounds like I'm wrong.

Interesting to know... I'd assume they may treat all foreign customers as business customers or something like that? can't tell... also I mighr need to look again into the changes brought along with MOSS. there have been some special declarations about electronic services...

After all I justed wanted to point out that there is nothing shady about either netcups or hetzners behaviour. I am pretty sure they are simply trying to comply to the german law which indeed may be complicated and even different for them whysoever ;-)

ayukas

@Falzo said:

@ayukas said:

>

Since you are a private customer ordering not from within the EU, we will have to charge you German VAT. Thank you for your understanding."

I replied with:
"Is that your company's policy or any laws in Germany says this way?

As I said above, that's simply the german law. It's called Umsatzsteuergesetz and you might want to read the paragraph 1 and 3 about the place of fulfillment which decides about the need to charge VAT depending on the customer being another business or not and their location.

if you sign up as a business I am pretty sure they'll ask you for proof on that. Can't reliably tell how hetzner handles this, yet they are responsible for declaring their taxes the right way and in any kind of testing through the authorities they need to prove they checked on the customers status... I doubt just an ID suffices in that case to show you're a business customer.

Anyways if you are unlucky with how they handle this you should simply choose another provider, that's how it goes... at least you'll be able to cancel your order without costs.

Probably don't await an answer from their sales/billing before tuesday, christmas is calling ;-)

Got the reply by another staff, he said he got confirmation from their legal consultant that personal user from non-EU land must pay the German VAT.
Maybe just like you said.
Sad story.

Falzo

@ayukas said:

>

Sad story.

I fully agree , VAT is a pain in the a** for both sides and the concept of it is most likely hard to grep esp. for those usually not involved with this...

keep in mind that netcup does not gain anything from charging VAT on your service as they have to pass it onto the german tax authorities. it's more likely they're on the losing side here too, as they wont be able to have a lot of people as customers because those being pissed by not getting their VAT removed and cancel their order right away

ayukas

@Falzo said:

@ayukas said:

>

Sad story.

I fully agree , VAT is a pain in the a** for both sides and the concept of it is most likely hard to grep esp. for those usually not involved with this...

keep in mind that netcup does not gain anything from charging VAT on your service as they have to pass it onto the german tax authorities. it's more likely they're on the losing side here too, as they wont be able to have a lot of people as customers because those being pissed by not getting their VAT removed and cancel their order right away

Jein, I'm not that pissed off, it's really the first time happen by my side, so I try to figure out the thing clear;-)
And due to their fine attitude and your kind words here, I decide to give them a try.

mik997

@ayukas said:

in my experience Netcup are very strict about applying VAT and following the rules to the letter .. in my case they removed the German VAT rate 19% and then applied the VAT rate applicable in my EU country 23% so I actually ended up paying more than the advertised offer on their website

tbh it annoyed me a little but I guess they're only following their national tax laws at the end of the day ..

fburger

be aware that no one of your sites get hacked..
Netcup deactivate your VServer if one sites on the server (f.ex. Joomla-Site) get hacked.
My site was hacked at 12:15 pm, server was stopped 12:30 pm.
Than you have to fill out a form, that it is coming up again. In this, you have to say, that your server (or a homepage on it, Joomla etc.) is never beeing hacked in future.
If it happen again, you have to pay...

blackjack4494

@fburger said:
be aware that no one of your sites get hacked..
Netcup deactivate your VServer if one sites on the server (f.ex. Joomla-Site) get hacked.
My site was hacked at 12:15 pm, server was stopped 12:30 pm.
Than you have to fill out a form, that it is coming up again. In this, you have to say, that your server (or a homepage on it, Joomla etc.) is never beeing hacked in future.
If it happen again, you have to pay...

same thing goes for every serious hoster. I had something similar with hetzner (no wordpress there tho). They do it to prevent any further damage. Hetzner will give you at least 4 hours to respond if you do not so and something is still going on on your server they will stop it. You will be better off with that instead of explaining that in front of a court. German laws are strict about it. But I guess american ones are even more strict. It is always up to the owner to keep everything secure. It is not the fault of the hosters. They just do their job and follow the guidelines/laws. So do not blame them.

southy

@fburger said:

(f.ex. Joomla-Site) get hacked.

Wow, what a surprise.

Falzo

@mik997 said:

@Falzo said:
on another german discussion someone claimed to have spoken with their support which confirmed those are dedicated threads. maybe the machines itself are dual E5 with 64 GB or something like that - at least you can use all the power you can get. I have turned up my boinc-client from a 50% limit on CPU to 80%, we'll see if this will result in noticable more output during the next days ;-)

let us know how it goes .. I've also been curious about whether the 'dedicated cores' on my Netcup RS are exactly that and whether I could run 90% avg utilisation without penalty .. (even though my RS currently spends 50% of its cycles idle)

just as follow up: haven't seen any issues so far. from what I can tell that box is producing more results/run time since 24th...

keep in mind that those numbers heavily depend on the workunits you get assigned, but I do think it's noticable that the run time is not below 1 day anymore, as seen before the 24th. so I'd say running at 80% instead of 50% scales as expected and also doesn't get you any penalty or something like that. no one bothers at netcup as it should be with 'dedicated' cores/threads/whatever ;-)

they actually are running a new years promo where they have their rootserver range on sale, at least via the german offerings: https://www.netcup.de/vserver/ (watch out for the different prices on different contract term lengths)

also some more discount codes for €5 off onetime from their affiliate program for those interested (new customers only) ;-)

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nqservices

@Falzo said:

they actually are running a new years promo where they have their rootserver range on sale, at least via the german offerings: https://www.netcup.de/vserver/ (watch out for the different prices on different contract term lengths)

>

The promotion only seems to be available on their Germany website version. If click on English version, prices are without promotion. Can I buy on the Germany version and then get all my invoices and support in English? Or is the Germany page reserved and restricted only for clients located in Germany?

Falzo

@nqservices said:

@Falzo said:

they actually are running a new years promo where they have their rootserver range on sale, at least via the german offerings: https://www.netcup.de/vserver/ (watch out for the different prices on different contract term lengths)

>

The promotion only seems to be available on their Germany website version. If click on English version, prices are without promotion. Can I buy on the Germany version and then get all my invoices and support in English? Or is the Germany page reserved and restricted only for clients located in Germany?

if you choose a product and click on 'Jetzt bestellen' you'll see the detailed german product description. from there you can switch to english and it will change accordingly.

it shouldn't be of any matter from which language-page you order those products anyways as far as I know this is in no case a limitation to german customers or alike... for invoices in english I'd guess they do change according to the informations you fill in when creating your account otherwise you may simply ask sales department ;-)

nqservices

@Falzo

Thanks!. Did as you said and bought some VPS's. Is the first time working with netcup. Hope all works out well!

Falzo

@nqservices said:
@Falzo

Thanks!. Did as you said and bought some VPS's. Is the first time working with netcup. Hope all works out well!

you're welcome and best of luck, I'd say it heavily depends on what one is planning to do with that box - as it most probably is with every other provider. I am very satisfied so far, otherwise I wouldn't recommend them that way ;-)