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Totally transparent hosts?
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Totally transparent hosts?

raindog308raindog308 Administrator, Veteran

Are there any hosts that:

  • tell you exactly what the hardware specs of a node are
  • tell you how many VPSes are on the node and their specs ("21 VPSes and they are on the following plans...")
  • let you see in real time what the load average, memory utilization, etc. is

If not, would customers (i.e., all of you LETizens who buy VPSes) find this interesting?

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Comments

  • perennateperennate Member, Host Rep
    edited October 2015

    I thought RAMHost did the load average thing, but don't see it on their website now. Can't think of any other host. I don't think I care as long as my VM is generally stable; especially about the memory utilization. I'd rather the provider have automated systems to ensure that all host nodes are performing well, than to be able to see the stats and know that it's a problem on the provider's side; with the latter, I still can't do much to fix the situation.

    Thanked by 1WSCallum
  • I mean I don't see why they wouldn't. If someone ask I usually tell them E3 or E5 processor about 33-60 per node, if they want to know the specific specs its usually just 32 or 64 GB ram RAID storage, if they ask what node they are on I usually ask their IP and let them know you know IronDragon or IronSmith whatever node they are on, as for the load none usually ask but if they did I wouldn't mind telling them I mean future customers are future customers, if they wanna know let them know. Usually they can run simple commands on the node if they are customers already and figure some of these things out.

  • We used did exactly the above around 5 years ago, each server had a page where the customer on that server could see how many neighbors, loading, etc. It was supposed to show transparency on no overselling, but I think these pages had about 10 people look at them in a year so development was stopped.

  • perennateperennate Member, Host Rep

    IgniteServers said: I mean I don't see why they wouldn't. If someone ask I usually tell them E3 or E5 processor about 33-60 per node, if they want to know the specific specs its usually just 32 or 64 GB ram RAID storage, if they ask what node they are on I usually ask their IP and let them know you know IronDragon or IronSmith whatever node they are on, as for the load none usually ask but if they did I wouldn't mind telling them I mean future customers are future customers, if they wanna know let them know. Usually they can run simple commands on the node if they are customers already and figure some of these things out.

    Yes, most providers will reply in ticket if user asks, but OP is talking about real-time data for the number of VPS and the load.

  • IgniteServersIgniteServers Member
    edited October 2015

    @perennate said:
    Yes, most providers will reply in ticket if user asks, but OP is talking about real-time data for the number of VPS and the load.

    Something like this https://nixstats.com/report/561de5c965689ef9238b4567 I suppose. Does not show how many are actually on the node but the load it does RAM and CPU.

  • VirMachVirMach Member, Patron Provider

    We try to tell hardware specs of the node as much as we can - sometimes we forget but if you look around a little you'll find the information. It would also be interesting if we could create some sort of plugin to relay the number of VPS / load average / memory utilization.

    IgniteServers said: Something like this https://nixstats.com/report/561de5c965689ef9238b4567 I suppose. Does not show how many are actually on the node but the load it does RAM and CPU.

    Have any invitation codes?

  • raindog308 said: If not, would customers (i.e., all of you LETizens who buy VPSes) find this interesting?

    Interesting? Yes. Would I buy especially from a host that does this, when no others do? No, because not knowing how oversold other hosts are, I have no basis for comparison.

  • @VirMach said:

    https://nixstats.com/

    Have to email the owner I believe for the code.

  • jarjar Patron Provider, Top Host, Veteran
    edited October 2015

    @MarkTurner said:
    We used did exactly the above around 5 years ago, each server had a page where the customer on that server could see how many neighbors, loading, etc. It was supposed to show transparency on no overselling, but I think these pages had about 10 people look at them in a year so development was stopped.

    Yeah same story at Catalyst back then. I made every push to be more transparent than anyone but the truth is, the numbers showed that no one really cared. Listed every container by number, had full node stats public. It wasn't worth the upkeep.

  • RAM Host used to do this, but now just provide a green smiley if the node is up.

    I'm not sure how many provider do that. It varies how many VPSes per node, this depends per package. If you offer 32GB/64GB RAM VPSes then there fit only 5 on a 384 GB RAM E5. However you can have 300 1 GB VM's on there and 600 512MB VM's. Limiting factor then will be CPU or disk IO. Also, without proper limits/fencing one VM can hog CPU or IO and pull an entire node's performance down..

    Thanked by 1vRozenSch00n
  • VirMach said: Have any invitation codes?

    From the owner's signature:

    (secret invite code: LET)

  • jarjar Patron Provider, Top Host, Veteran

    Raymii said: If you offer 32GB/64GB RAM VPSes then there fit only 5 on a 384 GB RAM E5.

    I bet you could put 60 of 'em on there and never use over 50% CPU or memory :P

    The things I've learned from LEB...

    Thanked by 1IgniteServers
  • The way our status page worked was it showed first the anatomy of the server - disks/cpu/memory, then cpu/io/memory load for the server as a total.

    Then under that it showed each VPS with its committed RAM/actual use, committed CPU/actual use, committed disk/actual use.

    Whilst a provider could just fudge those figures, its relatively easy to test it - just max out your CPU check status page, max RAM check status page, max disk check status page.

    A lot of people talk of wanting it, but the stats for us showed that no-one was interested.

    If I remember rightly GPLHost/DTC did this back in 2008/2009 too, but they didn't get many users of their transparency pages.

  • LeeLee Veteran
    edited October 2015

    raindog308 said: Are there any hosts that:

    raindog308 said: tell you

    Would I believe any host that tells me they only have x VPS on a node with x spec? Probably not unless I could see it for my self.

    Almost every host, even the ones on here selling a 2GB VPS for 15 per year tell you they do not overload their servers. Just telling me you don't do overload is not going to convince me.

    Real time stats are good however it won't necessarily determine how many are on the node.

    Thanked by 1blazingfastservers
  • @Raymii said:
    RAM Host used to do this, but now just provide a green smiley if the node is up.

    Isn't that all we need, if I see a red sad face I know my day is going to suck. :)

  • can't be all that transparent, not gonna happen. like if I asked how much they make off a node, I'd probably get laughed at. complete transparency is not practical or possible

  • jarjar Patron Provider, Top Host, Veteran
    edited October 2015

    @blazingfastservers said:
    can't be all that transparent, not gonna happen. like if I asked how much they make off a node, I'd probably get laughed at. complete transparency is not practical or possible

    Oh really.

    MXroute has 509 active clients, hosts email for 2,155 domains across two servers, estimated annual revenue at $7,578.39.

    Not intended in a bragging manner. It's a very small business. I just challenge the notion that it has to be private data, and I'm willing to express it with more than just meaningless words.

  • @Jar to believe or not to believe, that is the question :)

    Thanked by 1jar
  • LeeLee Veteran

    Jar said: Oh really.

    MXroute has 509 active clients, hosts email for 2,155 domains across two servers, estimated annual revenue at $7,578.39.

    See that to me is information nobody should have, comes across more like "look at me" than transparency.

    Thanked by 3jar IgniteServers Dylan
  • jarjar Patron Provider, Top Host, Veteran

    @Lee said:
    See that to me is information nobody should have, comes across more like "look at me" than transparency.

    Sorry, not intended that way at all. It's a very small business, nothing to brag about. I just like being totally transparent, and saw @blazingfastservers comment as a challenge ;)

  • joepie91joepie91 Member, Patron Provider

    blazingfastservers said: complete transparency is not practical or possible

    Don't see why not. And I suspect that Buffer disagrees with you.

    Thanked by 2perennate jar
  • @blazingfastservers said:
    can't be all that transparent, not gonna happen. like if I asked how much they make off a node, I'd probably get laughed at. complete transparency is not practical or possible

    When it comes to finances I doubt a host will discuss that unless its a small business of course, or a big business you can simple look on crunchbase if they are registered there.

    Thanked by 1blazingfastservers
  • edited October 2015

    @joepie91 hmm Buffer does fund raising, a non profit org? that's entirely different
    only matters when profitability involves public interest

  • joepie91joepie91 Member, Patron Provider
    edited October 2015

    @blazingfastservers said:
    joepie91 hmm Buffer does fund raising, a non profit org? that's entirely different

    They are commercial. I recommend reading up on them and their transparency policy. That's a much more constructive use of your time than trying to twist the story, in such a way that you don't have to admit being wrong about this.

    That you don't wish to be transparent is your choice. But don't try to present it as being "out of your hands" or "inevitable" or whatever else. It's your choice, so if you make it, stand behind it. It can be done differently, and the responsibility for not doing so lies entirely with you.

  • @joepie91 said:
    Don't see why not. And I suspect that Buffer disagrees with you.

    I work at a company that is extremely transparent. Our salaries, expense claims, bonuses, development plans: they are all public and physically on a wall at the office. I really think it's awesome.

  • mpkossen said: I work at a company that is extremely transparent. Our salaries, expense claims, bonuses, development plans: they are all public and physically on a wall at the office. I really think it's awesome.

    There isn't any "resentment" about different salaries from everybody knowing each others pay?

  • joepie91joepie91 Member, Patron Provider

    @mpkossen said:
    I work at a company that is extremely transparent. Our salaries, expense claims, bonuses, development plans: they are all public and physically on a wall at the office. I really think it's awesome.

    Does that cause any issues over there, or is it all smooth sailing?

  • LeeLee Veteran

    mpkossen said: I work at a company that is extremely transparent. Our salaries, expense claims, bonuses, development plans: they are all public and physically on a wall at the office. I really think it's awesome.

    Depends on the company I suppose. I can see that working in a very transparent operating environment where sales, company values and the like are the key performance indicators and everyone has the same potential to earn.

    Staff development plans on a wall for everyone to see? hmm hopefully not interpreting that to what I would consider a development plan to be.

    For the majority of companies it would not work, the disharmony caused would be too great and defeat rather than promote a good working environment.

  • MikeAMikeA Member, Patron Provider

    If a host doesn't do the last on your list it's because the person you're talking to probably doesn't have access. Most hosts will tell you all but the last.

  • sambling said: There isn't any "resentment" about different salaries from everybody knowing each others pay?

    There won't be, as long as everybody knows well their own capacity and understand their role in a company.

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