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ARIN IPs - Gone forever?
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ARIN IPs - Gone forever?

PetaByetPetaByet Member
edited September 2015 in Providers

https://www.arin.net/resources/request/ipv4_countdown.html

There are only 4x /24's left (equivalent of /22), as of now - 24 September. Wondering what will happen next. Maybe the waiting list requests will never be fulfilled? Booming second hand market?

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Comments

  • So, just around 1000 addresses?

  • I wish I could say "I don't care I have IPv6", but I can't get it to work .. -.-

  • singsingsingsing Member
    edited September 2015

    PetaByet said: Maybe the waiting list requests will never be fulfilled?

    You can bet your boots they won't, people aren't just going to return unused space to ARIN, since:

    PetaByet said: Booming second hand market?

    Yes.

    Well, ok, there might still be a few people who might return space to ARIN to be man of the hour on the Internet, but basically my understanding is most of what can easily be given back has already been given back.

    I think ultimately the simplest "cheap" way to keep IPv4 working from the server side from here on, and allowing growth, is wider adoption of services similar to CloudFlare that can demultiplex shared IPv4 addresses and target onto unique IPv6 addresses. And IPv6-to-natted-IPv4 going the other way. DCs might work with carriers to offer these so you don't pay 2x the transit on the Internet for this sort of thing. Or hosting companies within individual DCs could offer this through a cross-connect.

    Thanked by 1MacPac
  • scyscy Member
    edited September 2015

    Price will increase a bit on second hand market. Many people have way too much IPs (see buyvm for example, giving away dedicated ip with 5$/y shared hosting... a way to keep some of their ip space artificially busy for when they'll really need it)

    For IPv6 to take off though we need that there aren't any IPv4 left... and it will be easier (and some stuff cheaper) when everything will be running on IPv6

  • Why don't they use the rest of the 127/8 block? That's such a waste

  • trewqtrewq Administrator, Patron Provider
    edited September 2015

    @hostnoob said:
    Why don't they use the rest of the 127/8 block? That's such a waste

    /s

    Fun fact for everyone the US DoD controls 13 /8 ranges... That's 218,103,808 addresses or 851,968 /24 ranges.

  • hostnoob said: Why don't they use the rest of the 127/8 block?

    Yours ... if you can ever get it to work (one of the few good lines in Judge Dredd).

  • Take some of the /8s from Apple, Ford and others not using them.

  • jarjar Patron Provider, Top Host, Veteran

    @doughmanes said:
    Take some of the /8s from Apple, Ford and others not using them.

    Now that's not fair. One day ford might want to identify every car they've ever made with an IPv4 address.

    Thanked by 3HRxM2 klikli vimalware
  • @Jar said:
    Now that's not fair. One day ford might want to identify every car they've ever made with an IPv4 address.

    I doubt it. I know for sure that they won't include a free modem in their cars.

    Thanked by 2jar XiNiX
  • @Jar said:
    Now that's not fair. One day ford might want to identify every car they've ever made with an IPv4 address.

    Most of their cars won't make it to that day. Chevy FTW

    Thanked by 1jar
  • @Jar said:
    Now that's not fair. One day ford might want to identify every car they've ever made with an IPv4 address.

    Apple will just give them an IPv6 address but market it as an "iPvX" address, "5000 times faster than IPv4"

  • @trewq said:
    /s

    Oh no, I was genuinely curious. I don't know what 127/8 is used for other than 127.0.0.1

  • patrick7patrick7 Member, LIR

    Can you ping 127.9.48.92, 127.3.222.111?

  • trewqtrewq Administrator, Patron Provider
    edited September 2015

    @hostnoob said:
    Oh no, I was genuinely curious. I don't know what 127/8 is used for other than 127.0.0.1

    The whole range is reserved for loopback under RFC 6890. At this stage it is hardcoded in to so many things as a loopback range it would be more trouble that actually using IPv6...

    Thanked by 1hostnoob
  • FranciscoFrancisco Top Host, Host Rep, Veteran

    @scy said:
    Price will increase a bit on second hand market. Many people have way too much IPs (see buyvm for example, giving away dedicated ip with 5$/y shared hosting... a way to keep some of their ip space artificially busy for when they'll really need it)

    Not quite :) We get a lot of people that seem to think i'm lying when I say our shared doesn't include DDOS protection and then end up getting nulled all day. If we were doing a single fat shared IP we'd have no choice but to include filtering and that becomes a fustercluck I don't want to deal with.

    Francisco

  • rm_rm_ IPv6 Advocate, Veteran
    edited September 2015

    If you're going about discovering "untapped sources" of IPv4 address, you should look into the so-called "Class E", 240/8...255/8. But even those are next to impossible to start using now: http://packetlife.net/blog/2010/oct/14/ipv4-exhaustion-what-about-class-e-addresses/
    It's kind of ironic, we ran out of IPs, and yet still have this chunk of IPs marked as "RESERVED FOR FUTURE USE".

    Most importantly though, even recovering large amounts of /8s, be it from Class E or from DoD and the like, won't get us too far, considering the address consumption rate that's around a couple of /8s per month. So enormous effort and possibly needing everyone to patch their systems (including old and no longer supported ones), just to prolong the agony of IPv4 by maybe a year at most.

    Thanked by 2elgs howardsl2
  • FranciscoFrancisco Top Host, Host Rep, Veteran

    @trewq said:
    The whole range is reserved for loopback under RFC 6890. At this stage it is hardcoded in to so many things as a loopback range it would be more trouble that actually using IPv6...

    Not just hard coded, but physically limited in any platform that does hardware routing I'd assume. It's why all of the 'Class E' ranges can't really be touched since every Cisco out there blocks the ranges in hardware (or so I've been told). No one wants to do software based routing on big iron like that.

    Francisco

  • Francisco said: If we were doing a single fat shared IP we'd have no choice but to include filtering and that becomes a fustercluck I don't want to deal with.

    Ok, thanks! Lot of DDOS issue on your shared customers?

    Francisco said: It's why all of the 'Class E' ranges can't really be touched since every Cisco out there blocks the ranges in hardware (or so I've been told). No one wants to do software based routing on big iron like that.

    Stuff like that is also limiting the ability to adopt ipv6 too... But at one point something will be needed...

  • FranciscoFrancisco Top Host, Host Rep, Veteran

    scy said: Ok, thanks! Lot of DDOS issue on your shared customers?

    Heh, more than I expected. Autonull handles it all but since I don't have autonull using the WHMCS API (it only interacts with stallion at this point), customers don't get the alert emails and simply see an hour long nullroute.

    Some people jump behind cloudflare but once a flood moves to SYN/L7, they're going to pull the plug on you unless you're paying for the business class stuff.

    At some point we'll make autonull work with WHMCS directly, but it'll require changes in how we do handle things (routine, not software wise).

    Francisco

    Thanked by 2scy rgenzon
  • FranciscoFrancisco Top Host, Host Rep, Veteran

    scy said: Stuff like that is also limiting the ability to adopt ipv6 too... But at one point something will be needed...

    Right as well. You have many old school businesses that have legacy space and some old Cisco/Foundry router that doesn't have v6 holding their whole operation online. What's the reason they should invest tons of cash retrofitting their network with all new equipment to access nothing new? Nothing out there that's worth it is V6 only.

    Francisco

    Thanked by 2NanoG6 deadbeef
  • singsingsingsing Member
    edited September 2015

    trewq said: The whole range is reserved for loopback under RFC 6890. At this stage it is hardcoded in to so many things as a loopback range it would be more trouble that actually using IPv6...

    And what's worth mentioning, is you can actually assign yourself multiple addresses to the "lo" interface in linux:

    http://askubuntu.com/questions/444124/how-to-add-a-loopback-interface

    Then you can run multiple http servers all on port 80, for testing, etc.

    Thanked by 1apidevlab
  • Hum, DDOS seems to be popular these days...

    Francisco said: What's the reason they should invest tons of cash retrofitting their network with all new equipment to access nothing new? Nothing out there that's worth it is V6 only.

    Yeah, that's why IPv6 is not for the close future IMO

    Thanked by 1Francisco
  • I wonder if ddos is so frequent, or just providers talk about it a lot to sell ddos protected services.

  • lol DoD, they r holding several /8s!

    lol Akamai, do u really need so much IPs?

    20/8(Computer Science Corp.), what's this?

  • @XIAOSpider97 said:
    lol DoD, they r holding several /8s!

    lol Akamai, do u really need so much IPs?

    20/8(Computer Science Corp.), what's this?

    You seen CloudFlare?

  • @GM2015 said:
    I wonder if ddos is so frequent, or just providers talk about it a lot to sell ddos protected services.

    It is on the increase.

  • Still, not all the software we are using are IPv6 capable. ISP's still doesn't even talk about IPv6. It's like only a bunch of people are bitching about it.

    Unless we start having real problems soon, no one will care. Or so it seems.

    Should I just buy more additional IP's. :P

  • @4n0nx said:
    I wish I could say "I don't care I have IPv6", but I can't get it to work .. -.-

    We should add that to a list of banned things to say in the rules...

  • Considering the size of Apple... A /8 might just be enough for them.

    Go do some maths and compare the $741b company to a $1m hosting business that supposedly holds more IPs for its size.

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