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Iniz - Closed account because user filed PayPal dispute
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3 pages of 1 person holding on for dear life while everyone else disagrees.
Given that you had active service there is literally no good reason for you not to have opened a ticket with INIZ, they would probably have refunded you without issue as has been seen on other similar threads.
You are just being pig headed to try and prove a point, no one is buying it, you even spent half the thread saying they should have emailed you then you found out they did and tried another angle, completely ridiculous, at some point you just need to say "hmm ok I understand what I did wrong and why this happened to me", this is that point.
I have changed the title of the post and moved it from the review, all INIZ have done is exactly what they said they would do in advance and this is in no way a review.
Wow. over 120 comments since this morning. I'm thinking I should have made a review of the host that sold me VPS, never delivered at all, and it turned out to be a recurring PayPal payment (which I wasn't aware of having agreed to). I just thought it was funny, cancelled the PayPay and let the host keep the money. OK, I'm not rich, or stupid. But it was for (if I remember the name correctly) DollarVPS or something like that. I paid a whole dollar to see what I'd get. I got nothing. So there's my answer. It was pretty funny. Not really relevant here, but I just got to thinking that if I'd chosen just the right attitude, perhaps I could have made a longer thread than this.
Anyway, carry on .. . . . .
I think this is an issue with MANY hosts. customers don't agree to a subscription, don't know there is one, and aren't happy when the money gets taken by PayPal. I doubt this is due to hosts deliberately wanting to deceive. I think PayPal are at fault.
For me, whenever given a choice of subscription or one-off payment, I choose one-off payment. But several times I've ended up with a subscription anyway.
Customers should be smarter, I agree, but the current situation isn't helping hosts or customers alike. the only winner here is paypal.
Now that I'm aware, I just keep an eye on the PayPal subscriptions. There should be none. Having been educated it's absolutely no problem.
PayPal is however implicit in this being used as a scam if somebody wants to do that, because they make it very hard to find and don't point to it in any way. It's as if they're trying to trick you. The only decent thing for them to do is put a blinking thingie on there saying "warning, recurring payment", or something similar. As it is, one has to look around for a long time to find it, and if one is not lucky enough to be on the right screen, one won't.
IMHO it's OP's fault. YOU started a PayPal subscription. The business DIDN'T.
YOU have to stop sending them money when they no longer need it. If they don't want to go through the administrative hassle of refunding each and everyone who has this problem, I don't see a problem. Or would you rather pay extra for that?
They DID NOT take money from you. YOU SENT THEM MONEY. It's a whole different concept. PayPal subscriptions are client-initiated.
If they DO NOT READ what they're agreeing to, they are outright asking to be scammed.
The checkout process is extremely different for a subscription as compared to a standard transaction.
Other types of payments DO have a way to "look similar" while still authorizing future charges, but I stand in my position as they ALSO contain text that warns customers that they are authorizing any future charges that such company wants to make to that account.
I think you mentioned your raising dispute at PayPal happened first, consequently, they closed your account. This is not to answer why you didn't open a ticket with INIZ first.
The problem is exactly that you are stubborn. People have repeatedly explained where you went wrong and you just don't want to accept it.
If you had read their TOS or likely any TOS of a low end vps provider you would have seen that a paypal dispute means immidiate service suspension.
Maybe then you would have thought to open a ticket in iniz instead of paypal and I bet they would have seen the mistake and fixed it.
Now with what you chose to do and more importantly with the stance you are keeping after some things you weren't aware of, were explained to you, as a fellow customer I believe you are in the wrong, you should not get your money back and even though I never used Iniz (I think) you whole ordeal hasn't changed at all the possibility of me getting or not a vps from them.
You are wrong (apart from some shitty stuff paypal does and they won't change it cause they are that big and they don't give a shit), get over it.
not in my experience. I've never clicked on a subscription payment, but ended up with some. also, not just for hosting
again, not in my experience. next time I use PayPal I will look much more carefully at this. details might be there, but weren't obvious.
this is similar to reading T&Cs for a lot of stuff. how many people ever read thoroughly the T&Cs. very few I think. not right, but it happens.
IMO refusing to refund an obviously wrong payment for a service that doesn't exist is wrong. WHMCS should handle this, but don't. I can understand why not, if you have a lot of customers, and don't have time to trawl through statements to ensure you're not being scammed for a false refund.
As I said there are other ways on PayPal, but they're not technically subscriptions. In those cases the responsability is on the company because, even though the client gives permission through the checkout, the control on when the funds are taken from their account is on the company.
If I recall correctly, a few examples of this are RunAbove, NameSilo (if you choose to), Name.com.
I think this is one of the ways to do it https://developer.paypal.com/docs/classic/adaptive-payments/gs_AdaptivePayments/
And here you can see the flow
https://developer.paypal.com/docs/classic/adaptive-payments/integration-guide/APIntro/
More than likely this is what you're talking about. It looks almost like a normal PayPal checkout (only 1 line of text is added in my experience) so it's understandable that you didn't see it.
I'm pretty sure that PayPal subscriptions are something that just happens and not something that the buyer is made aware of when clicking yes to a purchase.
That said, according to someone posting up above, Iniz apparently has some special clarity in this regard.
Ah, I wish.
What do you think it depends on?
Did you read my last replies? Of course, the website developer chooses if the payment is recurring or one-time. It's not the same to order a monthly subscription to something than ordering a pocket lamp.
per pre-approved payments would be better. is this actually a WHMCS issue, where they coded for what was available at the time (years ago), and should now update to a better method
It'd definitely allow much more control over the funds and the payments, preventing this kind of issues from ever happening. They could even code instant affiliate payments with it.
I should have been more clear.
What do you think the user's experience depends on? Obviously you see something different from what I see, and I am interested in how that happens.
I see a single payment. You see a payment with an explanation that this will reoccur.
Of course not. But I would like to see that reflected in the sale. Something like the word "re-occuring", for example.
I see. Well, usually (normal subscription) this is the difference:
Recurring:
One-time:
Preapproved payments - several different types (many more available)
Without payment on it (it's similar to the below one in desktop mode, but without products)
With payment
@protos78 you need to stop comparing PayPal with banks and credit card companies. They're not the same.
Also, a LE host won't have the money to spend on a proper accounts dept to keep track of incoming payment discrepancy.
PayPal nor the billing software used by LE hosts has an overpayment notification system.
What you will find, is that it's standard practice to close the account of a customer whom files an unauthorized charge back, be it PayPal, credit, or, bank. It may even be listed in the t's and c's
As you made no effort to inform the provider before taking your money back, I fully support their decision.
Now please stop digging a hole, the flames just get hotter until you break through into hell and have your post locked/removed or worse your account banned.
Aka, don't reply. Just ignore it and it'll be over.
PS, next time YOU overpay be nice and TALK to the provider, else you just get labeled a db
Filing a dispute should be the last resort on your part, but it was the first thing you did. Face it, you both went nuclear.
The thing is, going nuclear on your side was unwarranted, but going nuclear on Iniz's side is the best way to keep their business going.
Any idea how many disputes they receive, and of those what percentage are "honest/stupid mistakes" like yours, and what percentage are people trying to rip Iniz off? I'll bet the ratio is something like 5% to 95%.
Basically a dispute, especially one filed without opening a ticket first, is a huge red fraud flag, so they take the action that is appropriate 95% of the time. Investigating each case for the benefit of the 5% would be awesome, but it's just not realistic at an LEB price point.
So it's sad that you're part of the 5% who just made a stupid mistake, but from what I'm reading, you really need to learn to own your mistakes...you can't spend your whole life blaming someone else for a problem entirely of your own making...you chose to setup a recurring payment, you chose to cancel your service, you chose not to carefully read the cancellation email (or you did read, and you chose not to cancel the recurring payment), you chose not to open a ticket, you chose to file a dispute...that's a whole lot of "you chose" in there, whereas the only "Iniz chose" is "Iniz chose to close an account that waived a big red 'There's a 95% chance I'm a fraudster' sign".
Although I do agree that you should always contact the host to request a refund in a situation like this the argument that a lowend host can't keep track of incoming payments is nonsense. I encountered the same situation with hostus. I didn't even have to contact them at all as they instantly added it to my account balance. I'm sure they'd refund it if I'd ask but you know, their service is excellent so I'm sure I'll be spending more with them.
I agree keeping track of your subscriptions is your own responsibility but it's this kind of service that sets a provider apart from others. It's not only about delivering great servers but also about service. Even if you sell things cheap with little margin for profit exceeding the customer's expectations will always turn into profit.
I'd be willing to bet Iniz was also adding as credit to his account. I've made the same mistake with two providers, and in both cases I built up an account credit. And in both cases when I asked for a refund (via a ticket!) I got one, even though both their terms said no refunds for overpayments.
I'm pretty sure most terms are in place for cases when the company is dealing with a real prick. They can point out the "no refund" policy and be done with it. But if they're dealing with someone who takes the time to write a polite request for a refund, they seem to be more than happy to agree.
+1.
/thread. They didn't charge you, you sent them money from an account only you had control of. Auto pay strikes again!
1- You didn't talk to them and explain, you went suicidal and opened a paypal dispute
2- You hurt their paypal reputation
3- You're trying to hurt their service with this thread
There are several issues here. First, the OP should have contacted Iniz before filing a dispute. It has been pointed out that, at times, the client is not even aware a subscription has been created on a Paypay account; this happens because even after selecting the non-subscription payment button, it still creates a subscription. So, the customer might just ignore the notice to remove Paypal subscription after cancelling a VPS.
The other point I would like to make is, if one signs up for a service costing say $400 a month and cancels after the first month, forgets to remove Paypal subscription, and a payment is sent to the provider, do you consider that a gift? Sorry, it is not your money to keep. If you will use the fund as credit to provide further service, that is OK, but it is not yours to keep if you are no longer providing service to the client. Keeping the funds is thievery whether you like it or not.
To iterate, the OP erred by not contacting Iniz first about payment that was sent due to un-cancelled Paypal subscription before filing a dispute. It sounds like a big misunderstanding, and hope both parties can work it out. I have had service with Iniz since 2013 and my experience has been nothing but positive.
So you fucked up, now you expect us to help you get your account and vps back? No.
Hate to say it, but you are in the wrong on this one OP...
Next time, contact the provider directly and work it out. Most of them are pretty reasonable. Contacting paypal should be a last resort.
This would be similar to me sending you $5000 for a car in the mail. Then calling the police and pressing charges saying you didn't give me your car -- even though it was never for sale...
I think it is clear now what happened and what to do in the future if/when this happens again.
With those words, to stop it before going off-topic. Thread closed. If OP wants to comment, PM me or flag the thread that you want it reopened and it will be done.
I want to thank everyone who participated in this thread and kept it nice and clean.