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Fighting Spam from LET users. Is it worth it? - Page 3
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Fighting Spam from LET users. Is it worth it?

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Comments

  • @4n0nx said:
    Who would want a server from someone who labels others 12 year olds when he runs out of arguments?

    I haven't argued with you at all. I'm simply disappointed that someone came and derailed my thread asking for thoughts on spam, and whether my methods of stopping it would be intrusive. You came in ranting about how you paid for something therefore you "deserve" it. That was unnecessary and completely incorrect. I refuse to believe that any mature adult could do something so childish, hence the label. If you have nothing productive to add to the discussion, you may leave.

    Thanked by 2deadbeef ucxo
  • Jonchun said: You came in ranting about how you paid for something therefore you "deserve" it. That was unnecessary and completely incorrect. I refuse to believe that any mature adult could do something so childish, hence the label. If you have nothing productive to add to the discussion, you may leave.

    I stated that I would not pay for restrictions. Do you really think you are making people want to buy from you by acting this way? Who are you to give orders to others in a forum? If you don't like opinions then you should leave.

  • @4n0nx said:
    I stated that I would not pay for restrictions. Do you really think you are making people want to buy from you by acting this way? Who are you to give orders to others in a forum? If you don't like opinions then you should leave.

    I haven't given any orders. I have given you the best possible option for someone who doesn't wish to add anything productive to the discussion. Your statement of "not paying for restrictions" was clearly incorrect, and all you've done is argue the following:
    "I paid so i shouldn't be restricted!!!!!!"

    Right. You paid for everything agreed upon in the terms of the service. It's as simple as that. You don't go to a fast food joint, order a hamburger, then demand cheese because you don't want to be restricted. You agreed to buy a burger without cheese. If you wanted cheese, you should have ordered the cheese.

    And yes, I hope people order from SharkNode after viewing my completely straightforward policy in dealing with a) difficult customers and b) abuse and spam. I have nothing to hide, and have simply asked you to leave if you're not going to contribute to the discussion I started.

    Thanks for understanding.

    Thanked by 1ucxo
  • As a legitimate customer, I am ok to provide any information that a host desires, provided the information asked is not too private & intrusive and the host themselves are not hiding their own information from public. Like am ok to send a scan of my CC after masking cvv and few digits or a phone call etc. At the same time I would like the host also to reveal his full business information.. so that I am comfortable to to know with whom I am dealing with.

    Clearly, I dont want to share node or server with any abuser or spammer. So for that I will help my host to do that. Just my 2c.

    Thanked by 2Jonchun aglodek
  • Jonchun said: all you've done is argue the following:

    Why pay for your restricted service when I can pay for a non restricted service that is probably cheaper?

    It's as simple as that.

    Jonchun said: You don't go to a fast food joint, order a hamburger, then demand cheese because you don't want to be restricted.

    Exactly. I go to the fast food joint that gives me septuplicate cheese on my sub at no extra charge, because they like having customers.

    Jonchun said: And yes, I hope people order from SharkNode after viewing my completely straightforward policy in dealing with a) difficult customers and b) abuse and spam. I have nothing to hide, and have simply asked you to leave if you're not going to contribute to the discussion I started.

    Maybe you should start contributing to your own discussion.

  • @4n0nx said:
    Why pay for your restricted service when I can pay for a non restricted service that is probably cheaper

    >

    It's as simple as that.

    There's more to a VPS than smtp restrictions and pricing. If you don't like it, don't buy it. However, that doesn't mean a host/provider owes you anything or shouldn't be restricting ports. You might go to a "non restricted" host, and end up receiving blacklisted IPs, or have a high risk of abusive neighbors. There's plenty of other factors that would sway the argument in favor of the provider that rate limits.

    @4n0nx said:
    Exactly. I go to the fast food joint that gives me septuplicate cheese on my sub at no extra charge, because they like having customers.

    Right. You can go get the extra "cheese" for free. The rest of us will sit back and have a slice of aged cheddar while you munch on velveeta. Differences in network quality and vps stability apply even in the low-end scene. The entire point of this thread was to see if there was anything I missed in order to provide a better experience for my clients. This clearly went way over your head.

    @4n0nx said:
    Maybe you should start contributing to your own discussion.

    My contribution will be complete when I slay the troll.

    @NeoGen said:
    As a legitimate customer, I am ok to provide any information that a host desires, provided the information asked is not too private & intrusive and the host themselves are not hiding their own information from public. Like am ok to send a scan of my CC after masking cvv and few digits or a phone call etc. At the same time I would like the host also to reveal his full business information.. so that I am comfortable to to know with whom I am dealing with.

    Clearly, I dont want to share node or server with any abuser or spammer. So for that I will help my host to do that. Just my 2c.

    Good to hear from the other side as well. You're one of the few!

  • Jonchun said: My contribution will be complete when I slay the troll.

    I am neither a troll nor 12 years old, nor a difficult customer. You are just being an ass.

    Jonchun said: Differences in network quality and vps stability apply even in the low-end scene.

    Yeah right. Like your $17 VPS resold from ramnode beats a 2€ OVH VPS. You are clearly delusional.

    Jonchun said: If you don't like it, don't buy it. However, that doesn't mean a host/provider owes you anything or shouldn't be restricting ports. You might go to a "non restricted" host, and end up receiving blacklisted IPs, or have a high risk of abusive neighbors. There's plenty of other factors that would sway the argument in favor of the provider that rate limits.

    I won't buy it like I have stated multiple times before. I have never received a blacklisted IP address, nor has anyone on my nodes been abusive.

    Go ahead and rate limit your snake oil. No one's going to buy it from a person like you anyway.

  • JonchunJonchun Member
    edited December 2014

    @4n0nx said:
    I am neither a troll nor 12 years old, nor a difficult customer. You are just being an ass.

    I rest my case.

    @4n0nx said:
    Yeah right. Like your $17 VPS resold from ramnode beats a 2€ OVH VPS. You are clearly delusional.

    We don't resell RamNode VPS. RamNode doesn't even offer Xen. If they had a reseller program, I would consider it. They're a great host.

    @4n0nx said:
    Go ahead and rate limit your snake oil. No one's going to buy it from a person like you anyway.

    My current clients disagree.

    I'm no longer going to be responding to you as I feel I've derailed this thread long enough. It was unprofessional and naive of me to think I could talk sense into someone who's delusional enough to come up with claims such as the above.

    I am however, open to more suggestions and thoughts. Here is my current plan:

    default rate limit: 100/hour
    send in a ticket to get it raised to: 250/hour
    verify phone to get it raised to: 1000/hour

    prepay 2 months extra to get limit lifted. (non refundable if terminated due to spam)
    verify id with official scan to get limit lifted.

  • Jonchun said: It was unprofessional and naive of me to think I could talk sense into someone who's delusional enough to come up with claims such as the above.

    Yes, very unprofessional and delusional of you to think you could compete with OVH, Hetzner, online.net or reputable let providers by rate limiting your overpriced VPS's and once being told that, labelling the messenger as a troll, bad customer and 12 year old.

  • SplitIceSplitIce Member, Host Rep
    edited December 2014

    @4n0nx Some people prefer dealing with companies that care about their customers. Let alone often providing better and more personalised support. Vote with your wallet, not with your words in an unrelated topic.

    @Jonchun I would be against rate-limiting myself. If I did do it, I would probably make it higher + have a daily limit (rarely do sites email in large quantities unless its a mass email which is usually done quickly).

    I would instead recommend doing detection (then limit and open a ticket for review) or filtering depending on your preferences.

    Under no condition would I recommend taking government ID. Its a recipe for disaster (sued if you get hacked, PCI compliance and laws of various countries). Furthermore, despite understanding your pain and the importance of the issue I wouldn't give you a copy of my government ID.

  • @SplitIce said:
    4n0nx Some people prefer dealing with companies that care about their customers. Let alone often providing better and more personalised support. Vote with your wallet, not with your words in an unrelated topic.

    Jonchun I would be against rate-limiting myself. If I did do it, I would probably make it higher + have a daily limit (rarely do sites email in large quantities unless its a mass email which is usually done quickly).

    I would instead recommend doing detection (then limit and open a ticket for review) or filtering depending on your preferences.

    Under no condition would I recommend taking government ID. Its a receipt for disaster (sued if you get hacked, PCI compliance and laws of various countries). Furthermore, despite understanding your pain and the importance of the issue I wouldst give you a copy of my government ID.

    Got it. Will take this into account. You're okay with a phone call though?

  • SplitIceSplitIce Member, Host Rep

    Depends, if its instant I would consider it. If it involves me waiting around expect no purchase or a refund request (if delay not disclosed).

    A phone call to release the restrictions might be ok, it would really depend on what I was deploying there, and how much I wanted your services.

  • @SplitIce said:
    Depends, if its instant I would consider it. If it involves me waiting around expect no purchase or a refund request (if delay not disclosed).

    A phone call to release the restrictions might be ok, it would really depend on what I was deploying there, and how much I wanted your services.

    VPS provisioning would be instant. It would be a phone call to release restrictions.

  • SplitIce said: @4n0nx Some people prefer dealing with companies that care about their customers. Let alone often providing better and more personalised support. Vote with your wallet, not with your words in an unrelated topic.

    As I have stated a billion times, I do vote with my wallet. The few LEB providers I have been with are awesome: Not really any restrictions and a working VPS for a small price. Their support is great,too (24/7), except I never need it other than to ask things that are not specified on the site.

    No clue how they do their fraud screening, but that's the way it should be. Invisible.

  • @4n0nx said:
    No clue how they do their fraud screening, but that's the way it should be. Invisible.

    Which providers are you with? They must be top notch to fit all of your requirements.

    Thanked by 3Jonchun Darwin 4n0nx
  • @Jonchun said:
    Incero's network which automatically prevents the most common attacks

    Nice. I did not know this.

    I was hesitating on moving some stuff within Incero.

    I don't want to move things around all the time.

  • I really like the idea that was proposed where the emails are initially rate limited and if you want to unblock it (or raise the limit) then you have to prepay for 2 additional non-refundable months (or whatever). I have many LET VPS boxes and I do use some of them for email but I'm totally fine with the idea of jumping through a hoop to enable higher-volume mail. It's kind of a hassle and some customers might choose other providers but I think it's perfectly understandable that providers have to implement certain hurdles to prevent fraud and spam.

    Thanked by 1vimalware
  • Jonchun said: I am however, open to more suggestions and thoughts. Here is my current plan:

    default rate limit: 100/hour

    send in a ticket to get it raised to: 250/hour
    verify phone to get it raised to: 1000/hour

    prepay 2 months extra to get limit lifted. (non refundable if terminated due to spam)

    verify id with official scan to get limit lifted.

    This would be fine with me, as long as it's mentioned upfront in the TOS so potential customers adjust their expectations, e.g. to avoid the annoyance of setting up a mailing list system for a client/friend and hit the limit on launch. I would much prefer to prepay extra to get the limit lifted though, ID/phone verification only as last resort.

  • @goinsj2010 said:
    I really like the idea that was proposed where the emails are initially rate limited and if you want to unblock it (or raise the limit) then you have to prepay for 2 additional non-refundable months (or whatever). I have many LET VPS boxes and I do use some of them for email but I'm totally fine with the idea of jumping through a hoop to enable higher-volume mail. It's kind of a hassle and some customers might choose other providers but I think it's perfectly understandable that providers have to implement certain hurdles to prevent fraud and spam.
    @souen said:
    This would be fine with me, as long as it's mentioned upfront in the TOS so potential customers adjust their expectations, e.g. to avoid the annoyance of setting up a mailing list system for a client/friend and hit the limit on launch. I would much prefer to prepay extra to get the limit lifted though, ID/phone verification only as last resort.

    This is an old thead so I have no idea how it bumped so high, but I'm essentially doing the prepayment idea in terms of lifting SMTP for my new brand. It seems to be the most popular choice.

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