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verification method
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verification method

GallusGallus Member
edited June 2012 in General

Is it normal for a provider to ask for an email from the account that is associated with your paypal account?

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Comments

  • rds100rds100 Member

    Could be, however source of email could be easily spoofed. It seems more logical if they send something to this email (a verification code) and you have to tell them ot reply to them with the verification code.

  • MaouniqueMaounique Host Rep, Veteran
    edited June 2012

    A spoofed email is easy to see.
    This method sucks anyway, because if the paypal is compromised, it is most likely because the email has been compromised. As such, it would be trivial to do those things.
    Slightly offtopic: I have a big problem with paypal and cc payments because ppl use all kinds of bots that "verify" if I am from a certain country to flag the order.
    Worst problem I had with BurstNET which called me with the code and then asked for all kinds of papers which I am completely unwilling to provide (told them that, politely). Since then I kept receiving payment overdue notices for weeks until I opened a ticket and asked them to quit sending those since I will never send them anything. After a week more I got reply and the flow finally stopped...
    M

  • GallusGallus Member

    As I am unfamiliar with the receiving end of pay pal payments:
    Am I giving valuable info or do they already know my email adres?
    It differs from the account I signed up with.

  • MaouniqueMaounique Host Rep, Veteran

    @Gallus said: It differs from the account I signed up with.

    I dont understand that...
    If you are asking if they see your email address associated with the paypal account, yes, they do.
    M

  • GallusGallus Member

    That is what I meant. I registered on their site with an email adres that is not the same as the one associated with my paypal account. Now they ask for an email from the paypal email account.

    As I find that strange, I wanted to know if this is a security risk for me.

  • MaouniqueMaounique Host Rep, Veteran

    Sending an email from an account they already know, doesnt increase the risk. It is strange method, but I dont see any problem with it. Much different from asking drivers licence or some bill...
    M

  • GallusGallus Member

    Asking for a copy of drivers license or passport would make me cancel the transaction.
    A vps is not that valueable for me....

  • MaouniqueMaounique Host Rep, Veteran
    edited June 2012

    @Gallus said: Asking for a copy of drivers license or passport would make me cancel the transaction.

    A vps is not that valueable for me...

    Same here, but again, one cheap VPS customer is not that valuable for them either to risk a fraud. The methods to check for that might be inapropriate, but I can understand them. They'll just limit to the wealthy customers, and that is a valid marketing strategy.
    M

  • @Maounique said: Same here, but again, one cheap VPS customer is not that valuable for them either to risk a fraud.

    Exactly, a chargeback likely costs them more than the VPS.

  • personally no one has asked me such a method to verify, but it seems to be reasonable way to verify ownership. However it is better if they send a verification code to your email and you update them back.

    PS : The email I use for signups and my paypal email are different. However i haven't been asked to verify so far as a receiver/sender.

  • gbshousegbshouse Member, Host Rep

    We are implementing verification service for our current project.
    I'm planning to make it public (as a web service).
    Short descriptions of factors used:

    • check source IP is a Tor node, known proxy, high-risk country,
    • fetch geolocation info about the IP,
    • fetch the country chosen during registration and compare it to IP info,
    • check mail address against known abuse lists (DNSBL),
    • check registration time comparing to IP location,
    • few others which I don't want to make public :)
      Using this parameters we are calculating overall scoring and making decision to accept registration or not.

    Cheers

  • rds100rds100 Member

    @gbshouse or just use MaxMind :)

  • gbshousegbshouse Member, Host Rep

    @rds100 - our own solution is cheaper and more flexible :)

  • MaouniqueMaounique Host Rep, Veteran

    I absolutely hate MaxMind and the feeling is mutual.
    M

  • @gbshouse said: - check source IP is a Tor node, known proxy, high-risk country,

    Doesnt help for Victim Socks

    @gbshouse said: - fetch geolocation info about the IP,

    From?

    @gbshouse said: - check registration time comparing to IP location,

    Why?

  • gbshousegbshouse Member, Host Rep

    @William - for me buying something at 0400 looks suspicious. Regarding geolocation - we are using combination of our own datasources, open sources one etc.

  • nabonabo Member

    @gbshouse said: for me buying something at 0400 looks suspicious

    So you don't want computer techies as your clients?

  • kylixkylix Member

    @gbshouse said: for me buying something at 0400 looks suspicious

    Haha, yeah. I guess 5 more years to go and we have finally eliminated the original purpose of the internet. Go providers, icann et al!

    Thanked by 1nabo
  • CoreyCorey Member

    @Gallus said: Asking for a copy of drivers license or passport would make me cancel the transaction.

    A vps is not that valueable for me....

    We ask for any valid proof of identification if the order comes up to appear as fraud. We often get fraudsters telling us that they will raise a paypal dispute if we don't give them their services...... then we just refund their money and say well you already have your money back - no need!

  • @gbshouse said: for me buying something at 0400 looks suspicious.

    So everyone who sleeps during the day is suspicious?

  • gbshousegbshouse Member, Host Rep

    It's just one of the factors - if you notice someone from China or any other high risk country registering at 0400 it is suspicious. Each point from my list is a separate factor.

  • GallusGallus Member
    edited June 2012

    @corey but I know I am a good buyer. If the seller does not think so I end the transaction. The seller has reasons to label me a risk or worse a fraud and I don not trust the seller with a copy of my id.
    Without a mutual trust there should not be a business transaction.

    And ending the transfer can be done with some class. A polite message stating the reason to quit and a request fot refund.

    Must confess this is theorethical as i have not yet been considered a fraud.:-)

  • DamianDamian Member

    @Gallus said: Is it normal for a provider to ask for an email from the account that is associated with your paypal account?

    We do; our AUP/TOS states that there will be further verification if the name and/or emails don't match, within reason.

  • specklspeckl Member

    @Gallus said: Is it normal for a provider to ask for an email from the account that is associated with your paypal account?

    I see nothing wrong with this. The provider needs to trust who is coming onto their servers. And verifying the validity of the email account associated with payment only makes sense.

  • CoreyCorey Member

    @Gallus why would you end the transaction just because the buyer has a question about you being fraud or not?

    Do you realize how much money fraud orders cost providers?

  • DamianDamian Member

    @Gallus said: Without a mutual trust there should not be a business transaction.

    This is exactly why the seller is asking for verification. They don't need to arbitrarily trust you just because you're buying a service from them.

  • miTgiBmiTgiB Member

    @Gallus said: The seller has reasons to label me a risk or worse a fraud and I don not trust the seller with a copy of my id.

    Without a mutual trust there should not be a business transaction.

    What have you done to give the seller any trust? Just walking away is certainly your choice, and you've said you've never been labeled questionable, but really, why do I trust you any more? Because you said "I am a good buyer"?

    Thanked by 1Mon5t3r
  • @Damian said: This is exactly why the seller is asking for verification. They don't need to arbitrarily trust you just because you're buying a service from them.

    I think @Gallus 's point was that when a provider asks him for his ID, the provider should also provide his ID to proove his identity (which is reasonable)

  • GallusGallus Member

    @Corey,

    I would end the transaction when the seller wants to use methods to verify me that I think are too much for the purchase of a simple VPS.

    As long as you treat me like a customer then I will buy from you. If you need proof that I am a trustworthy client: Fine, but keep it like I am someone you want to do business with.

    If I have to send a copy of my passport to rent a $20 per year VPS you don't trust me enough to engage in a (business) relation.

    If buyer and seller cannot work out the arrangement then both go their own way. No harm done.

    I prefer to be treated as a business customer. My main VPS is billed to me with a 30 day payment term. So in affect I am allowed to pay for my VPS at the end of the month, after teh service has been provided. I trust them enough to host the stuff that earns me my money. They trust me to pay on time. We do not disappoint each other.....

    I realise that many LEB providers have been burnt many times by fraud, but that does not change the fact that most (I hope) of your customers are honest clients who want to be treated as such.

    And as I said: All in theory as no provider has yet treated me as a fraud.
    The provider that caused me to start the thread has just processed my orders :)

  • rds100rds100 Member

    @gsrdgrdghd the provider, being a legal entity could provide his company registration. It should usually have the company details / company registration number listed on the website and then you can lookup the registration in the trade register or whatever applies to the specific country.

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