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We also run an offer with 50cents, half of the buyers were terminated within 1 month for abuse,t he rest almost all cancelled after a year. They are still available for any existing customer which wants one, as all our offers, including the 128 and all, just prove you are a customer for 6 month in good standing, and you can order any OVZ box except the biz ones where we are always sold out, but they are 256 or bigger anyway.
http://lowendtalk.com/discussion/19647/openvz-32mb-10-y-4-m-256mb-ipv4-buffalo-us-8-12-year-128-256mb-ipv6-nat-france-eu
They were never really pushed or touted as TUN/TAP enabled to be fair.
I see the problem. Not to quote myself, but 'fuck Buffalo'.
At least it wasn't marketed as NYC
I'll give you that.
That is also a very good point and no doubt part of the market shift, I enjoy the interaction here most of the time and I am pretty much just myself 99% of the time but I do consider this a commercial place, I would still be here even if I was not a host though.
Would you be as active though?
Probably, I was fairly active before, probably less active when bi-polar Joel bought the place but probably not much in it, Joel went psycho on me because I registered lowendspirit.com, despite telling him why and showing him how it could only benefit the community he would not listen to reason and saw it as an aggressive attempt to take away traffic.
I should post the PM's one day, pretty funny in hind sight.
The new LEB sweet spot is 512 MB of RAM (and KVM/Xen please). 512 MB is low enough to be easily sustainable, but also high enough that pretty much anything (sans some game servers) fits, with proper tuning and wise software choice (or heck, even without).
It does not make any sense anymore to go 64-128 MB of RAM, and it has been proven many times and by hundreds of hosts that a 512 MB can work in the long term at below $7 without any tricks, overselling, or quality issues in general. Not to mention the landmark that is DigitalOcean, and btw because of them this will need to be sub-$5, not sub-$7.
Despite what you may think, someone who bought a 4-6 GB of RAM VPS realizes pretty quickly that they do not and can not use all that RAM even if they tried, and any quality issues that come with that (likely being OpenVZ and all), will bite quick and hard. So those ultra-high RAM offers are an exception, not the rule, perhaps due to novelty or a certain hype, and you absolutely shouldn't consider them to be a general direction of the market.
Today would be fine.
Post it now.. Be interesting to read.. And anybody know what happened to Joel? Just curious
Actually I just found the PM and re-read it, decided I am not going to post it as it will only be a drama magnet and some people still active here are named by Joel in a rather negative light throughout.
I think there are not a lot of offers bc ppl looks for "just works" VPS
You could always send it to a trustworthy, drama-hungry former mod, if you feel the need to let it out. Just sayin.
It's interesting topic. Please stick with it.
If they are all like me and would like to dig dirt on themselves and wonder how could that go there, I think they wont mind. IMO, to be the villain in joel's vision is somewhat like a praise. He is the man who took over LET for free I think and sold it to the highest bidder for serious money after collecting advertising revenue without moving a finger for some time. He banned me for good after pretending it was 48 hours only, I mean, what could possibly be worse?
Sounds like a lovely fella.
Wait sarcasm does work online right?
That's definitely true, though the hardware-has-moved-on argument is pretty valid as well. So I think it's a combination of the two.
Chris runs OpenVZ in VMware ESXi I believe, so I'm sure he benefits somewhat from memory dedup.
I definitely agree that part of the LowEnd market shift was caused by LowEndBox and LowEndTalk. I believe it was bound to happen sooner or later, as LowEndBox has always had just a monetary limit and no limits resource-wise; someone was bound to go and push the limits and start a "revolution", if you will.
I see two paths for the future: one to quality, and one to bang-for-buck. It's obvious that bang-for-buck offers are popular but they do not always prove to be viable for production use. For production purposes, quality will be an increasingly important factor. I think that more and more people will realize this distinction and will purchase accordingly.
As for the "real" LowEndBox: I will soon provide proof that it still is possible to do stuff with very little resources.
The "real" LowEndBox though, has changed I believe. What used to be the LowEndBox was a low-resource machine which you would try to squeeze as much as possible on. I think that these days, it's either that or a big bang-for-buck machine. With the important note that there is a market for both.
I think when it all started VPS were still pretty expensive hence the interest in doing more with less..
There really is nothing noble about running a 128M box. Nothing wrong with it, of course, and if you get a bit of geeky enjoyment about running off small-memory hardware, more power to you. But "the low end spirit is diminishing" and such seems a bit overdramatic...it's not like fundamental human rights have been violated, we are at the end of the age of Man, cats and dogs are living together, etc.
I suspect LowEndAdmin would have gladly used a 2GB VPS if they'd been available for $7/mo when he started LEB/LET. At the time he did, 64MB or 128MB was what you got so he was challenged with running stuff off 64MB or 128MB. Today you can get 512MB or 1GB for $7/mo easy.
The "low end spirit" to me (and I think to LEA) is more about "how much can I get for $7/mo" not "I reject thy evil big box and shall forever dwell in the holy land of the 64MB VPS".
The original LEA actually used to celebrate offers focused on low resources and coined the low end spirit phrase himself, he also used to poke a bit of fun at less 'sustainable' offers
I think there is a middle ground, I don't expect everyone to agree, life would be dull if we all did
Unfortunately, it's often impossible to distinguish quality from cruft prior to purchasing. I've bought VMs from some well-known names here that turned out to be crap
And I've bought some from unknown (or little-known) providers that have proven to be long-term gems.
And you can also get a dedicated server with 2 GB RAM, 500 GB disk for 4.99 EUR/mo = 6.84 USD/mo.
The confusion starts with the VPS's size directly associated with the RAM size. RAM is the easiest thing to oversell. You cannot really oversell CPU and IO. If you do, it'll bite you back.
More RAM = more caching = less CPU = less IO
If you are running MySQL on a 64MB box (not a tiny 10MB one, of course), you are not really doing something good. Instead, you are over using the CPU and IO of the hardware node.
The general use case of <=128MB boxes are VPN. And one VPN process is using 25-30% of a E5 2620 core all the time and a lot of random IO due to logging. How could a provider make profit by selling 128-256MB memory for $10-15/year if all those customers are actually using their VPS?
whenj is @drserver offering OpenWRT on his micro KVM instances?!
http://lowendtalk.com/discussion/comment/636211/#Comment_636211
I'm not LEA, so I can't say he would or wouldn't have thought that, but you do make a valid point: today's LowEndBox is just different from the one 6 (!!) years ago. Hardware has gotten cheaper/more powerful for the same price, dedicated servers have become cheaper, and the market has changed with LowEnd actually being a thing there where it wasn't six years ago.
It's still fun to cram as much as you can in 64MB, but I think the same goes for 512MB. If you can run 18 static sites and one WordPress installation on 64MB of RAM (yes, it still works), imaging what you could do with 8 times that!
I think the RAM-CPU ratio that's in servers these days is different from several years back. People tend to put a lot of RAM with CPU(s) not meant to match that RAM power in terms of VPS hosting. I've ordered machines with 128GB RAM with the sole purpose of having more applications use up that RAM (MySQL, Redis, MemCached, etc.) rather than trying to alter the RAM-CPU ratio. But if a host does Dual E5 hecta-cores with 384GB of RAM and 8 disks in RAID 10 it's quite obvious where the bottleneck is going to be, especially when it's going to be stuffed with 128MB instances.
Oh man there is another unique website haha :-). +1
lol
Remember in 1998 that the optimized web page was 20kb and literally done on notepad. Now people are serving 2MB pages of literal junk maintained on the latest specific programming editor to view on TVs.
1998 it was 24MB of memory for a computer, 64MB was higher end and pretty crappy IDE drives.
2003 it was a P3/IDE server box (which served later for a mail server).
2005 VPS was out, but even then almost impossible to run cPanel as the average dedicated server had but 2GB of memory, and that cost around $250/mon for a 2.2Ghz Xeon and no RAID.
Now...yeah low end depends on the year you remember it being low end (for me, 1983 kit built Timex-Sinclair computing was low end).
Yes, that's one perspective. So today's new lowend is 512MB, as had been said.
The problem is, as a frugal sysadmin I am deeply troubled by the fact that I now have to put my 20MB-RAM app on a 512MB box -- and watch all that memory sit idle