Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!


ChicagoVPS Solus not letting me set a secure root password? - Page 2
New on LowEndTalk? Please Register and read our Community Rules.

All new Registrations are manually reviewed and approved, so a short delay after registration may occur before your account becomes active.

ChicagoVPS Solus not letting me set a secure root password?

2»

Comments

  • @Aldryic said: Nosir. The cyrillic 'o' and the asterisk have the same entropy.

    Uhh... adding additional character sets increases the possibilities. Latin characters, symbols, Cyrillic characters, etc. So "four Russian words with an asterisk" is higher entropy than "four Russian words". The problem is, as you said, finding the sets you need to use, but... that doesn't mean they're "the same".

  • rds100rds100 Member

    Inserting cyrillic characters in passwords has problems though... not every terminal has cyrillic support.

  • AldryicAldryic Member

    @DimeCadmium said: So "four Russian words with an asterisk" is higher entropy than "four Russian words".

    That's not how entropy works. Each character's entropy is dependent on its position and charset. Cyrillic, which falls into the 'all ASCII' category, has the same entropy value as the asterisk you're replacing it with (also from the same 'all ASCII' category).

    End result: Same entropy value, harder password for you to remember.

  • antivenantiven Member
    edited May 2012

    Never mind, entropy vs. key space.

  • AldryicAldryic Member

    @antiven - cyrillic is not a 'charset'. Symbols are not a 'charset'. Both the cyrillic д and the symbol * have a value between 4 and ~8,5 bits for entropy, dependent on position. Swapping a cyrillic character for an asterick does not increase entropy value, period.

    Folks, please do some actual research on how entropy works before making assumptions. There are few things as irritating as this particular argument, ESPECIALLY for folks that are professionally trained in the field (and not just making guesses based on 'common knowledge' and 20 minutes on wikipedia) that have to consistently correct false assumptions. Passwords are situational, and a password with higher entropy is not necessarily 'more secure' than a different password with a lower entropic value. Nor does high entropy automatically mean good security, which is the confusion that you are making.

  • antivenantiven Member

    Never mind, entropy vs. key space.

  • pcanpcan Member

    I guess that SolusVM does not allow to enter symbols because it may lead to inability to enter the password using the KVM VNC console. SolusVM does not have the option to select a custom (international) keymap switch for qemu. If you have a non-USA keyboard and try to use the SolusVM VNC console, most ot the symbols keys are dead.

    Thanked by 1DeletedUser
  • CVPS_ChrisCVPS_Chris Member, Patron Provider

    Point is ChicagoVPS is the best.

    Thanked by 1netomx
  • DimeCadmiumDimeCadmium Member
    edited May 2012

    @Aldryic said: That's not how entropy works. Each character's entropy is dependent on its position and charset. Cyrillic, which falls into the 'all ASCII' category, has the same entropy value as the asterisk you're replacing it with (also from the same 'all ASCII' category).

    Uhh... who says Cyrillic fall into the 'all ASCII' category? (I know exactly how entropy works - but that's irrelevant). If someone knows its only Cyrillic, they can try only Cyrillic. If they know it's Cyrillic and Symbols, they can try both, but that's more stuff to try. Herp derp.

  • AldryicAldryic Member
    edited May 2012

    @DimeCadmium said: Uhh... who says Cyrillic fall into the 'all ASCII' category?

    Categories are commonly defined as:

    Numerals [0-9]
    Hex [0-9,A-F]
    Case Insensitive Latin [a-zA-Z]
    Case Insensitive Alphanumeric [a-zA-Z0-9]
    Case Sensitive [a-zA-Z]
    Case Sensitive [a-zA-Z0-9]
    All ASCII
    Extended ASCII Printable
    A wordlist I can't quite remember the name of.

    Pretty much anything you can call up in Charmap on windows (including cyrillic) falls under All ASCII, unless they fit a previously defined pattern. That puts symbols and cyrillic in the same group, with the same rough entropy.

    @DimeCadmium said: If someone knows its only Cyrillic, they can try only Cyrillic. If they know it's Cyrillic and Symbols, they can try both, but that's more stuff to try. Herp derp.

    You're looking at it from the wrong point of view. As an english speaker, your passwords are most commonly [a-zA-Z0-9] and symbols. If I did not speak English or French, my passwords would likely be cyrillic, 0-9, and symbols. As it happens, I know languages from a plethora of 'charsets', and as such most of my passwords are mixed between latin, cyrillic, chinese, etc.

    My 'cyrillic only' arguement was based on the categories above, in which replacing a cyrillic letter with an asterisk would not increase entropy, though it would make it 'more secure' under other definitions.

    Different types of passwords have different strengths, and one should never rely on a single theory ("my password has more bits than yours!") for security.

  • AldryicAldryic Member

    @pcan said: I guess that SolusVM does not allow to enter symbols because it may lead to inability to enter the password using the KVM VNC console.

    My guess would be more along the lines of they don't know how to properly sanitize input, so rather than risk another exploit they just prohibited non-alphanumeric completely.

  • yomeroyomero Member

    @Aldryic said: they don't know how to properly sanitize input,

    Sounds dumb. If is like that then Solus has a lot of SQL injection, lol.

  • FranciscoFrancisco Top Host, Host Rep, Veteran

    @Aldryic said: I guess that SolusVM does not allow to enter symbols because it may lead to inability to enter the password using the KVM VNC console.

    libvirt doesn't play nicely with funky characters in its XML file. It may be possible to use a <!CDATA> or however it goes to include but but it's likely just easier to force alphanumeric. As for OVZ passwords you need to funk around a bit to allow passing of most symbols to vzctl without issues occuring.

    Francisco

  • AldryicAldryic Member

    Dammit boss, learn to quote the right people <_< pcan said that, not me :P

Sign In or Register to comment.