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All new Registrations are manually reviewed and approved, so a short delay after registration may occur before your account becomes active.

GINERNET will now enforce KYC to all customers, offering a 5€ incentive.

13

Comments

  • zGatozGato Member

    @krobzow said:

    @zGato said:

    The standard verification process consists solely of a selfie that takes just a
    few seconds (to verify that you’re a real person, not a bot), without any documentation whatsoever.

    Curious, do you still have to prove you're a human after having this discussion with them? Are they still not sure if you're a human or a bot?

    Seems like. Also being a customer since 2023 without a single abuse report, and 3 total tickets is quite sketchy.

    Thanked by 2rpqu forest
  • rpqurpqu Member

    @tentor said:

    @rpqu said:

    Also, not like all deals I do are personalized.

    You do personalized deals?

    I think I did not do any but I could've forgotten some.

    Nvm, I did at least one personal deal.

    @beanman109 right

  • edited July 8

    @tentor said:

    @rpqu said:

    Also, not like all deals I do are personalized.

    You do personalized deals?

    I think I did not do any but I could've forgotten some.

    Nvm, I did at least one personal deal.

    Shame! ;) No, not really. Everyone should be well aware that not buying from an official offer and thereby hiding in the faceless mass of generic clients bears the risk of being singled out. I've rejected multiple custom offers by now but making them is still a nice gesture. If i take it or not is fully on me. Privacy has a price. Big deal.

    Full disclosure: I've whined to @SoftShellWeb for not wanting to post their order number, so maybe i'm a tiny bit of a hypocrite when i proclaim "Big Deal" but oh well... ;)

    Thanked by 1tentor
  • tentortentor Member, Host Rep

    @rpqu said:

    @tentor said:

    @rpqu said:

    Also, not like all deals I do are personalized.

    You do personalized deals?

    I think I did not do any but I could've forgotten some.

    Nvm, I did at least one personal deal.

    @beanman109 right

    Okay at least two then, probably I did a lot of them and don't remember all

    Thanked by 1beanman109
  • cainyxuescainyxues Member

    @tentor said: Nvm, I did at least one personal deal.

    yeas I see ya, I need that cheap dealz

  • tentortentor Member, Host Rep

    @cainyxues said:

    @tentor said: Nvm, I did at least one personal deal.

    yeas I see ya, I need that cheap dealz

    Hehe there are some on OGF ;)

  • manishmanish Member

    @totally_not_banned said: Those things are miles away from each other.

    It is really bonkers if the management decided to do so without succumbing to any legal pressure or state intervention.

    I mean, won't it hurt their business? I do not follow this.

  • edited July 8

    @manish said:

    @totally_not_banned said: Those things are miles away from each other.

    It is really bonkers if the management decided to do so without succumbing to any legal pressure or state intervention.

    Not really. People just are like this these days and trust me this is a rough shape of the things to come. I mean, it's not like you are wrong there's a huge legislative push into doing away with all the outdated cruft that somewhat served as a safety net against total surveillance. The writing has been on the wall for quite some time and it's basically an ongoing process by now.

    I mean, won't it hurt their business? I do not follow this.

    It's convenient and a ton of people has long given up any expectation of privacy or autonomy. Not giving up your data will more and more complicate things for you and at this point it's just normal to them to give away their face, their fingerprints, their private life, their every move, their medical history, ... It's all out there at various not exactly benevolent companies. They don't understand that others might still think this to be a bad idea or even scary and detrimental to society.

    Thanked by 1OpaqueRegistrant
  • manishmanish Member

    @totally_not_banned said: has long given up any expectation of privacy or autonomy.

    Yes, I am slowly giving up too, given the state of the self-hosting world, esp. email. You will be asked to post an imprint somewhere public at known addresses to your MX as per the RFCs and not use X DNS hosting because Spamhaus won't like it and Y hosting provider and Z TLD.

    @totally_not_banned said: it's just normal to them to give away their face

    I think people are just scared to move their data and want to keep their setup rolling however possible. But I believe a majority of LET like audience would just move. The provider has gone over the top with this step.

  • edited July 8

    @manish said:

    @totally_not_banned said: has long given up any expectation of privacy or autonomy.

    Yes, I am slowly giving up too, given the state of the self-hosting world, esp. email. You will be asked to post an imprint somewhere public at known addresses to your MX as per the RFCs and not use X DNS hosting because Spamhaus won't like it and Y hosting provider and Z TLD.

    Yeah, the open internet is not really all that open anymore and the trend will continue. Most people who care are pretty loudly thinking about what to do when places like LET stop being feasible too (so much open spaces have already disappeared) by now. I'm certain not going to use some kind of fully sanitized papers-please-internet. Or at least not more than i absolutely have to.

    @totally_not_banned said: it's just normal to them to give away their face

    I think people are just scared to move their data and want to keep their setup rolling however possible. But I believe a majority of LET like audience would just move. The provider has gone over the top with this step.

    Exactly and it's like this with 1000 other smaller or bigger things. You either get in line or you'll have to deal with the consequences. Most people aren't very good at dealing with consequences (or to be fair they usually see little point in doing so). Just doing what's expected from you is way more convenient and by now this is an automatism for a lot of people. At this point refusing to use even just certain services or technologies will put a very real strain on people's life.

  • s0n1cs0n1c Member

    I don't think a simple liveness check is enough @jmginer

    After all, someone could wear a hyper realistic silicone mask and pretend to be human. That would completely defeat the purpose, wouldn't it?

    To ensure maximum security, I'd recommend requiring every customer to submit ALL of the following info, otherwise, how can you really be sure there's a human behind the account?

    • Driver's license
    • Learner's permit
    • Passport
    • Passport card
    • National ID card
    • State/provincial ID card
    • Military ID
    • Permanent resident card (Green Card)
    • Citizenship certificate
    • Birth certificate
    • Social Security card
    • Social Security Number (SSN)
    • National Insurance Number (NIN)
    • Social Insurance Number (SIN)
    • Tax Identification Number (TIN)
    • Employer Identification linked to an individual
    • Voter registration card
    • Voter ID
    • Firearm license
    • Concealed carry permit
    • Professional license number
    • Hunting license
    • Fishing license
    • Immigration documents
    • Visa number
    • Alien registration number
    • Full name
    • Legal name
    • Maiden name
    • Previous names
    • Preferred name
    • Nickname
    • Initials (when identifying)
    • Date of birth
    • Place of birth
    • Age
    • Gender
    • Sex
    • Marital status
    • Nationality
    • Citizenship
    • Race
    • Ethnicity
    • Religion
    • Language
    • Sexual orientation
    • Disability status
    • Home address
    • Apartment/unit number
    • Mailing address
    • Previous addresses
    • Work address
    • Email address
    • Personal email
    • Work email
    • Phone number
    • Mobile number
    • Home phone
    • Work phone
    • Fax number
    • Emergency contact information
    • Bank account number
    • Routing number
    • IBAN
    • SWIFT/BIC code
    • Credit card number
    • Debit card number
    • CVV/CVC
    • Card expiration date
    • Credit score
    • Credit report
    • Mortgage account
    • Loan account
    • Investment account
    • Brokerage account
    • Retirement account
    • Pension account
    • Cryptocurrency wallet address (when linked to identity)
    • Tax returns
    • Income
    • Salary
    • Payroll records
    • Direct deposit information
    • Medical record number
    • Health insurance number
    • Insurance policy number
    • Patient ID
    • Prescription history
    • Medication list
    • Diagnoses
    • Medical conditions
    • Vaccination records
    • Lab results
    • Blood type
    • Allergies
    • Mental health records
    • Dental records
    • Vision records
    • Genetic test results
    • DNA profile
    • Fingerprints
    • Palm prints
    • Retina scan
    • Iris scan
    • Facial recognition template
    • Face photograph (when identifying)
    • Voiceprint
    • Hand geometry
    • DNA
    • Signature
    • Keystroke dynamics
    • Gait analysis
    • Employee ID
    • Personnel number
    • Resume/CV
    • Employment history
    • Performance reviews
    • Salary history
    • Work schedule
    • Timecard records
    • Security clearance
    • Background check results
    • Work badge number
    • Student ID
    • School records
    • Transcripts
    • Diplomas
    • Degrees
    • Enrollment status
    • GPA
    • Standardized test scores
    • Attendance records
    • Class schedule
    • Vehicle Identification Number (VIN)
    • License plate number
    • Vehicle registration
    • Driver number
    • Insurance information
    • Vehicle ownership records
    • Utility account number
    • Electricity account
    • Water account
    • Gas account
    • Internet account
    • Cable account
    • Smart meter data
    • Court records
    • Criminal history
    • Civil judgments
    • Warrants
    • Probation records
    • Divorce records
    • Marriage certificate
    • Adoption records
    • Name change records
    • Power of attorney
    • Wills and trusts
    • Religious beliefs
    • Political opinions
    • Union membership
    • Health information
    • Genetic information
    • Biometric identifiers
    • Sexual orientation
    • Criminal history
    • Immigration status
  • @s0n1c said:
    I don't think a simple liveness check is enough @jmginer

    After all, someone could wear a hyper realistic silicone mask and pretend to be human. That would completely defeat the purpose, wouldn't it?

    To ensure maximum security, I'd recommend requiring every customer to submit ALL of the following info, otherwise, how can you really be sure there's a human behind the account?

    • Driver's license
    • Learner's permit
    • Passport
    • Passport card
    • National ID card
    • State/provincial ID card
    • Military ID
    • Permanent resident card (Green Card)
    • Citizenship certificate
    • Birth certificate
    • Social Security card
    • Social Security Number (SSN)
    • National Insurance Number (NIN)
    • Social Insurance Number (SIN)
    • Tax Identification Number (TIN)
    • Employer Identification linked to an individual
    • Voter registration card
    • Voter ID
    • Firearm license
    • Concealed carry permit
    • Professional license number
    • Hunting license
    • Fishing license
    • Immigration documents
    • Visa number
    • Alien registration number
    • Full name
    • Legal name
    • Maiden name
    • Previous names
    • Preferred name
    • Nickname
    • Initials (when identifying)
    • Date of birth
    • Place of birth
    • Age
    • Gender
    • Sex
    • Marital status
    • Nationality
    • Citizenship
    • Race
    • Ethnicity
    • Religion
    • Language
    • Sexual orientation
    • Disability status
    • Home address
    • Apartment/unit number
    • Mailing address
    • Previous addresses
    • Work address
    • Email address
    • Personal email
    • Work email
    • Phone number
    • Mobile number
    • Home phone
    • Work phone
    • Fax number
    • Emergency contact information
    • Bank account number
    • Routing number
    • IBAN
    • SWIFT/BIC code
    • Credit card number
    • Debit card number
    • CVV/CVC
    • Card expiration date
    • Credit score
    • Credit report
    • Mortgage account
    • Loan account
    • Investment account
    • Brokerage account
    • Retirement account
    • Pension account
    • Cryptocurrency wallet address (when linked to identity)
    • Tax returns
    • Income
    • Salary
    • Payroll records
    • Direct deposit information
    • Medical record number
    • Health insurance number
    • Insurance policy number
    • Patient ID
    • Prescription history
    • Medication list
    • Diagnoses
    • Medical conditions
    • Vaccination records
    • Lab results
    • Blood type
    • Allergies
    • Mental health records
    • Dental records
    • Vision records
    • Genetic test results
    • DNA profile
    • Fingerprints
    • Palm prints
    • Retina scan
    • Iris scan
    • Facial recognition template
    • Face photograph (when identifying)
    • Voiceprint
    • Hand geometry
    • DNA
    • Signature
    • Keystroke dynamics
    • Gait analysis
    • Employee ID
    • Personnel number
    • Resume/CV
    • Employment history
    • Performance reviews
    • Salary history
    • Work schedule
    • Timecard records
    • Security clearance
    • Background check results
    • Work badge number
    • Student ID
    • School records
    • Transcripts
    • Diplomas
    • Degrees
    • Enrollment status
    • GPA
    • Standardized test scores
    • Attendance records
    • Class schedule
    • Vehicle Identification Number (VIN)
    • License plate number
    • Vehicle registration
    • Driver number
    • Insurance information
    • Vehicle ownership records
    • Utility account number
    • Electricity account
    • Water account
    • Gas account
    • Internet account
    • Cable account
    • Smart meter data
    • Court records
    • Criminal history
    • Civil judgments
    • Warrants
    • Probation records
    • Divorce records
    • Marriage certificate
    • Adoption records
    • Name change records
    • Power of attorney
    • Wills and trusts
    • Religious beliefs
    • Political opinions
    • Union membership
    • Health information
    • Genetic information
    • Biometric identifiers
    • Sexual orientation
    • Criminal history
    • Immigration status

    I don't have most of those... Do you think it's OK if i just scan the bonus card of my vape shop instead? I'm a good customer. I have like 7 stamps at least.

    Thanked by 1Alyx
  • ehabehab Member

    and when it comes to @emgh you must submit a drawing... and of his.

  • @totally_not_banned said: Do you think it's OK if i just scan the bonus card of my vape shop instead?

    Ya should be fine, just make sure to add your condoms and underwear on the picture.

    Thanked by 1totally_not_banned
  • gbzret4dgbzret4d Member

    @s0n1c said:
    I don't think a simple liveness check is enough @jmginer

    After all, someone could wear a hyper realistic silicone mask and pretend to be human. That would completely defeat the purpose, wouldn't it?

    To ensure maximum security, I'd recommend requiring every customer to submit ALL of the following info, otherwise, how can you really be sure there's a human behind the account?

    • Driver's license
    • Learner's permit
    • Passport
    • Passport card
    • National ID card
    • State/provincial ID card
    • Military ID
    • Permanent resident card (Green Card)
    • Citizenship certificate
    • Birth certificate
    • Social Security card
    • Social Security Number (SSN)
    • National Insurance Number (NIN)
    • Social Insurance Number (SIN)
    • Tax Identification Number (TIN)
    • Employer Identification linked to an individual
    • Voter registration card
    • Voter ID
    • Firearm license
    • Concealed carry permit
    • Professional license number
    • Hunting license
    • Fishing license
    • Immigration documents
    • Visa number
    • Alien registration number
    • Full name
    • Legal name
    • Maiden name
    • Previous names
    • Preferred name
    • Nickname
    • Initials (when identifying)
    • Date of birth
    • Place of birth
    • Age
    • Gender
    • Sex
    • Marital status
    • Nationality
    • Citizenship
    • Race
    • Ethnicity
    • Religion
    • Language
    • Sexual orientation
    • Disability status
    • Home address
    • Apartment/unit number
    • Mailing address
    • Previous addresses
    • Work address
    • Email address
    • Personal email
    • Work email
    • Phone number
    • Mobile number
    • Home phone
    • Work phone
    • Fax number
    • Emergency contact information
    • Bank account number
    • Routing number
    • IBAN
    • SWIFT/BIC code
    • Credit card number
    • Debit card number
    • CVV/CVC
    • Card expiration date
    • Credit score
    • Credit report
    • Mortgage account
    • Loan account
    • Investment account
    • Brokerage account
    • Retirement account
    • Pension account
    • Cryptocurrency wallet address (when linked to identity)
    • Tax returns
    • Income
    • Salary
    • Payroll records
    • Direct deposit information
    • Medical record number
    • Health insurance number
    • Insurance policy number
    • Patient ID
    • Prescription history
    • Medication list
    • Diagnoses
    • Medical conditions
    • Vaccination records
    • Lab results
    • Blood type
    • Allergies
    • Mental health records
    • Dental records
    • Vision records
    • Genetic test results
    • DNA profile
    • Fingerprints
    • Palm prints
    • Retina scan
    • Iris scan
    • Facial recognition template
    • Face photograph (when identifying)
    • Voiceprint
    • Hand geometry
    • DNA
    • Signature
    • Keystroke dynamics
    • Gait analysis
    • Employee ID
    • Personnel number
    • Resume/CV
    • Employment history
    • Performance reviews
    • Salary history
    • Work schedule
    • Timecard records
    • Security clearance
    • Background check results
    • Work badge number
    • Student ID
    • School records
    • Transcripts
    • Diplomas
    • Degrees
    • Enrollment status
    • GPA
    • Standardized test scores
    • Attendance records
    • Class schedule
    • Vehicle Identification Number (VIN)
    • License plate number
    • Vehicle registration
    • Driver number
    • Insurance information
    • Vehicle ownership records
    • Utility account number
    • Electricity account
    • Water account
    • Gas account
    • Internet account
    • Cable account
    • Smart meter data
    • Court records
    • Criminal history
    • Civil judgments
    • Warrants
    • Probation records
    • Divorce records
    • Marriage certificate
    • Adoption records
    • Name change records
    • Power of attorney
    • Wills and trusts
    • Religious beliefs
    • Political opinions
    • Union membership
    • Health information
    • Genetic information
    • Biometric identifiers
    • Sexual orientation
    • Criminal history
    • Immigration status

    They can verify me through the taste of my bunghole, its unique too

    Thanked by 1s0n1c
  • AlyxAlyx Member, Host Rep

    Considering the fact I can't pass this test, it seems I'm in fact a bot who just thinks he is a human.
    Guess I should have installed the update that was suppose to fix the personality disorder thing 🤷

    Thanked by 1rpqu
  • raindog308raindog308 Administrator, Veteran

    @William said: You just cant do a service like this in US - Too many states have so easily fakeable IDs and not everyone even in this times owns a passport card or realid (especially in West).

    RealID is now available in all states. However, it's not mandatory. When I renewed my DL recently, they asked if I wanted it. Oregon was the last state to adopt it for...no obvious reason. We do weird things here.

    If you're going to fly, you need it (or you need to take your passport along to the airport), but you can get a non-RealID if you want one because...who knows.

    @jmginer said: In our business, this is not a theoretical problem. We manage real network infrastructure: our own IP space, VPS nodes, and contracts with providers. When these services are abused, it is not "just an account". It means DDoS attacks, phishing campaigns, or card fraud. It harms our real customers, our reputation with providers, and, from time to time, ends with the police asking questions.

    @jmginer said: So we made a decision: accounts in the new Manager must pass a simple liveness check.

    Because...what has changed? This dire risks you list were risks 15 years ago.

    But if it's a "liveness" check then why not call me and we'll have a chat? I can generate a realistic fake selfie using ChatGPT in 10 seconds. I can't fake a phone call.

    So it's really not "liveness checking" at all, right?

  • raindog308raindog308 Administrator, Veteran

    @s0n1c said: Sexual orientation

    @s0n1c said: Sexual orientation

    Why do I have to submit this twice? In case it changes after the first time I submit it?

  • sillycatsillycat Member

    @jmginer said: There is no need to overthink it.

    When someone tells you to stop thinking, it's time to start thinking twice as hard. My 2c of advice in life.

  • rustelekomrustelekom Member, Patron Provider

    @totally_not_banned said:

    @jmginer said:
    We understand that facial checks make some people uncomfortable. That is completely understandable, and we are not going to pretend otherwise.

    But let’s put things into perspective. In the physical world, there is always a minimum level of visibility: you walk into a shop, a hotel, or a data center, and someone sees you come in. Honestly, every day we are surrounded by cameras in streets, shops, and building entrances, recording us without us knowing where that footage ends up, who stores it, or for how long. Most people do not even think about it.

    I'm sorry but that analogy just doesn't work out. In the real world 99% of store camera owners or whatever are not going to have my name on file. It's nothing but a picture of someone. Also i get to walk around with a hat and sun glasses as much as i want.

    Sure, it's possible to deanonymize yourself (theoretically or practically) by for example paying with some card at checkout overlooked by cameras (theoretically... i doubt the store will get my personal details during the payment process and even if they would there is likely no correlation going on) or you were careless enough to upload pictures to the internet which were then tagged by equally careless friends (again theoretically... the store probably doesn't have access to Facebook's biometrics vault - obviously Didit could rat me out in the same manner if they somehow got their hands on my data but that's simply not going to happen).

    In the end it's pretty much just government surveilance that would have a reasonable chance at identifying you and it's again (like all other cases) highly likely thwarted by hats, glasses and beards. We luckily don't (yet...) life in a world where it's required to be tracked every time we leave our homes or really do anything worth mentioning. The air is admittedly getting noticeably thinner though and it's for a good part due every second corner having someone pop up to collect yet even more data.

    On the internet, however, that basic visibility does not exist: anyone can register with a disposable email address, a fake phone number, a stolen card, and a VPN, and start using real infrastructure without being accountable to anyone.

    I can walk into a store and pay with a stolen credit card. Takes more balls and i need a physical card but beyond that it's pretty much the same thing. Either it does some kind of 2FA (which also blocks an online attempt) or it doesn't and i walk out of the store with my shiny new goods. You could obviously take a picture of everyone's passport at the checkout but i kind doubt that store would have a lot of customers. I mean, even if the card came up stolen, you can't really assume the store employees would even try to stop some random thief (who for all they know could be armed) from running?

    When you think about it it's way easier to stay anonymous offline than online since you simply don't have some number tattooed to your forehead that you have to obfuscate first. Just grow a beard, get some glasses, put on a hat and don't wave your ID card. Even if you skip the first 3 steps your still de facto anonymous in like 90% of situations unless you basically choose not to.

    TL;DR: If you feel better with such a system that's up to you but all those attempts at normalizing it just fall flat.

    Technology has come a long way. Most intelligent systems can recognize a person even if they try to hide. Yesterday, a pedophile kidnapped a little girl in Moscow and then killed her. He was caught within 24 hours thanks to the many cameras installed in Moscow. Cars are stolen 20-50 times less now. So there are advantages to a safe city and a safe internet.

    But biometric verification for renting a VPS for $1-2 looks too...

  • forestforest Member
    edited 12:11AM

    @jmginer said: On the internet, however, that basic visibility does not exist: anyone can register with a disposable email address, a fake phone number, a stolen card, and a VPN, and start using real infrastructure without being accountable to anyone.

    So the issue is that you want to hold people accountable? If all you're asking for is a selfie, then I'm disturbed about how you're going to use that to "hold people accountable". You aren't law enforcement. If someone uses a stolen card, that's not your problem, that's the bank's problem. Your one and only job is to kick them out, and lack of a selfie does not hamper that.

    I suggest you also fix the lie on your website that claims it's simply to distinguish humans from bots, if this is the case.

  • forestforest Member

    @raindog308 said:

    @s0n1c said: Sexual orientation

    @s0n1c said: Sexual orientation

    Why do I have to submit this twice? In case it changes after the first time I submit it?

    You also have to submit your criminal history twice, apparently. Just in case you commit a crime in between the answers.

    Thanked by 2s0n1c rpqu
  • s0n1cs0n1c Member

    @raindog308 said:

    @s0n1c said: Sexual orientation

    @s0n1c said: Sexual orientation

    Why do I have to submit this twice? In case it changes after the first time I submit it?

    Yes. Its 2026 after all, you never know what i might be in the next 10 seconds

    Thanked by 2nikio rpqu
  • manishmanish Member
    edited 3:00AM

    @totally_not_banned said: Most people aren't very good at dealing with consequences

    I did an exercise, once I had silly ego fight with someone from EU and moved all my hosting, registrar to Asia as a challenge. The conclusion was, we cannot survive without proper US/EU based providers/registrars even for Asian locations. I challenged it and won! It worked. Except for a personal domain.cctld, I bought it directly from the registry/manager. I think it works better like that as I have put my DNS glue records there for multi-jurisdiction game, just in case.

    But it was a lot of work and I had to resort to self-hosting a lot of things starting with authoritative DNS. The reliance is not there as I only have 2 pops in South East and Far East Asia, soon another one in India hopefully when I have funds or work/job.

    So, as a supreme (jk jk) self-hosting advocate, I say: challenge the status quo or go with the flow.

    Thanked by 1totally_not_banned
  • forestforest Member
    edited 5:47AM

    @totally_not_banned said: I mean there's exactly zero chance i'd ever put up with something like that even if the companies responsible are certified saints. It's just a massively bad idea to hand out such data for no real reason (no, some host demanding they get it doesn't qualify as good reason and neither does "reCoVEr YOuR pASsWorD"...).

    Certifications aren't there to protect you from data breaches, they're there to protect the business from lawsuits when data breaches do occur. They really mandate the absolute minimum in terms of good security practices where the only step down is "shocking negligence".

  • JasonMJasonM Member
    edited 5:44AM

    the actual KYC should be like that's on porn sites and whiskey sites.
    Are you 18 years older? Click yes or no.
    If yes, KYC done. if no, back to google.com :D

    (because Internet was made to make our life simple and ez)

    Thanked by 3rpqu s0n1c JohnnySac
  • s0n1cs0n1c Member
    edited 6:12AM

    the only times i've ever had to verify my id were with greencloud and, more recently, dartnode. i was kinda iffy about sending dartnode my driver's license since their id verification is ai-assisted, and they feed your personal documents (driver's license, passport, etc.) into some gemini model. but i had to do it, otherwise no $99/year dedicated server :'(

    at this point, i guess any provider could legally get me to hand over all my personal information if they bribed me with a $7/year vps or a $99/year dedi 💀

    i need to learn some self-control. please, nobody tempt me with deals like those again.

    Thanked by 1rpqu
  • edited 8:52AM

    @rustelekom said:

    @totally_not_banned said:

    @jmginer said:
    We understand that facial checks make some people uncomfortable. That is completely understandable, and we are not going to pretend otherwise.

    But let’s put things into perspective. In the physical world, there is always a minimum level of visibility: you walk into a shop, a hotel, or a data center, and someone sees you come in. Honestly, every day we are surrounded by cameras in streets, shops, and building entrances, recording us without us knowing where that footage ends up, who stores it, or for how long. Most people do not even think about it.

    I'm sorry but that analogy just doesn't work out. In the real world 99% of store camera owners or whatever are not going to have my name on file. It's nothing but a picture of someone. Also i get to walk around with a hat and sun glasses as much as i want.

    Sure, it's possible to deanonymize yourself (theoretically or practically) by for example paying with some card at checkout overlooked by cameras (theoretically... i doubt the store will get my personal details during the payment process and even if they would there is likely no correlation going on) or you were careless enough to upload pictures to the internet which were then tagged by equally careless friends (again theoretically... the store probably doesn't have access to Facebook's biometrics vault - obviously Didit could rat me out in the same manner if they somehow got their hands on my data but that's simply not going to happen).

    In the end it's pretty much just government surveilance that would have a reasonable chance at identifying you and it's again (like all other cases) highly likely thwarted by hats, glasses and beards. We luckily don't (yet...) life in a world where it's required to be tracked every time we leave our homes or really do anything worth mentioning. The air is admittedly getting noticeably thinner though and it's for a good part due every second corner having someone pop up to collect yet even more data.

    On the internet, however, that basic visibility does not exist: anyone can register with a disposable email address, a fake phone number, a stolen card, and a VPN, and start using real infrastructure without being accountable to anyone.

    I can walk into a store and pay with a stolen credit card. Takes more balls and i need a physical card but beyond that it's pretty much the same thing. Either it does some kind of 2FA (which also blocks an online attempt) or it doesn't and i walk out of the store with my shiny new goods. You could obviously take a picture of everyone's passport at the checkout but i kind doubt that store would have a lot of customers. I mean, even if the card came up stolen, you can't really assume the store employees would even try to stop some random thief (who for all they know could be armed) from running?

    When you think about it it's way easier to stay anonymous offline than online since you simply don't have some number tattooed to your forehead that you have to obfuscate first. Just grow a beard, get some glasses, put on a hat and don't wave your ID card. Even if you skip the first 3 steps your still de facto anonymous in like 90% of situations unless you basically choose not to.

    TL;DR: If you feel better with such a system that's up to you but all those attempts at normalizing it just fall flat.

    Technology has come a long way. Most intelligent systems can recognize a person even if they try to hide. Yesterday, a pedophile kidnapped a little girl in Moscow and then killed her. He was caught within 24 hours thanks to the many cameras installed in Moscow. Cars are stolen 20-50 times less now. So there are advantages to a safe city and a safe internet.

    Sure, a lot is possible when some actual resources are thrown at it but a simple theft case would probably not get much more than a report and an estimated picture given to local police patrols. Actually for how hopeless the whole thing is they happen to find a surprising amount of criminals that way (mostly repeat offenders that stick around the same high crime areas for various reasons) but overall the rates are as bad as the police's funding for everyday cases. Maybe there's more resources for this in Russia but around the metropolitan cities here chances of just getting lost 5 minutes into the run are astronomical.

  • forestforest Member
    edited 8:30AM

    @rustelekom said: So there are advantages to a safe city and a safe internet.

    Surveillance is a stop-gap measure when the real solution is to improve living situations (to reduce theft) and mental health (to reduce the kind of insanity you described). That's why there are plenty of cities that have low crime despite a lack of pervasive surveillance.

    Not to mention, the real world is a lot more dangerous than the internet, and literally the only way the internet can ever be really dangerous is when it intersects with the real world. Surveillance monitoring a dangerous street is in no way equivalent to surveillance monitoring your personal emails. That would be more akin to surveillance not on streets, but within everyone's own houses and bedrooms. A lot of crime occurs behind closed doors, but I don't see many people arguing that the government should install cameras and microphones on our ceilings.

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