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Be careful with hetzner, you have to pay now on servers even if you don't make it through the month - Page 2
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Be careful with hetzner, you have to pay now on servers even if you don't make it through the month

2

Comments

  • @asterisk14 said:

    @khnielsen said:

    @Jamph said:

    @Wenlee8 said:
    So whats the problem...? Nothing will change if you use a full month, you can even cancle before billing day and pay less.

    Don't you only also get charged now if the server is actually powered on, so overall it's better than before.... Unless you are the OP and a scammer

    You pay for the time the machine is reserved for you, powered on or not :)

    True and not so fair.... I think only fair to pay for disk space when vps switched off, not for ip/ram etc that is not being used.

    Proper vendors reserve resources for you no matter what status the VM is in which will cost you money whether you use it or not =)

    I don't think I know any vendor that'd take the IP from you if you power off the VM - What happens if they rent that IP out and you start the VM again? :)

    Thanked by 1BasToTheMax
  • fendixfendix Member
    edited April 19

    For legal reasons: the following text does not provide legal advice.

    I'm German myself and don't actually know the legal situation that well. Basically, you have a 14-day right to cancel distance contracts without reason, which is definitely part of the law § 355 BGB, § 312c BGB.

    My guess is that by canceling within 14 days, you automatically exercise your right to cancel. This should still be possible, but through a different method, not via the cancel button anymore. Until now, it was just a nice gesture from Hetzner to automatically exercise the right to cancel. But yes, it was heavily exploited, and the consequence is now hourly billing - rightly so :)

    Perhaps a German provider can clarify this ^

  • edited April 19

    @fendix said:
    Perhaps a German provider can clarify this ^

    I'm not a provider but it's not the first time this is being discussed. In the end it comes down to fine print and the fact that "services are being provided before end of cool down period" in which cases it's legally possible to void "Widerrufsrecht". Given Hetzner isn't really providing any per month service anymore it's even not just "starting to provide service before end of cool down period" but rather having fully provided X (hour-) units of service. There's a couple pitfalls associated with getting this legally correct but i guess Hetzner has the money to hire a sufficiently competent lawyer to figure it out for them ;)

    Thanked by 2asterisk14 kevinds
  • asterisk14asterisk14 Member
    edited April 19

    @totally_not_banned said:

    @fendix said:
    Perhaps a German provider can clarify this ^

    I'm not a provider but it's not the first time this is being discussed. In the end it comes down to fine print and the fact that "services are being provided before end of cool down period" in which cases it's legally possible to void "Widerrufsrecht". Given Hetzner isn't really providing any per month service anymore it's even not just "starting to provide service before end of cool down period" but rather having fully provided X (hour-) units of service. There's a couple pitfalls associated with getting this legally correct but i guess Hetzner has the money to hire a sufficiently competent lawyer to figure it out for them ;)

    I think this is correct.

    Normally in consumer law when seller is online/distant you do have the right to cancel a service or product because you cannot see product before you buy eg if buy sneakers and when you receive they are too small or look different to picture. And in this case the seller ask you to return the product in unworn conditions and you get refund.

    BUT, when it is a digital service eg cell phone/internet/vps contract then you normally NOT have this right IF you started to USE the service UNLESS it is clearly stated in the contract. In many such contract it will say words like "you can cancel within 14 days as long as you do not start to used the service" or it will say "you do not have the right to cancel once we start providing the service". I know it works like this with my internet/cell phone contract.

    Thanked by 1fendix
  • @asterisk14 said:
    BUT, when it is a digital service eg cell phone/internet/vps contract then you normally NOT have this right IF you started to USE the service

    No, at least under German law you have this by default no matter what but under those circumstance it's possible for the consumer to waive this right as long as the correct procedure for doing so is followed.

    Thanked by 1fendix
  • @totally_not_banned said:

    @asterisk14 said:
    BUT, when it is a digital service eg cell phone/internet/vps contract then you normally NOT have this right IF you started to USE the service

    No, at least under German law you have this by default no matter what but under those circumstance it's possible for the consumer to waive this right as long as the correct procedure for doing so is followed.

    In my country its always - "you can cancel within XX days as long as you do not start to used the service" or it will say "you do not have the right to cancel once we start providing the service". You only have right to cancel if service has not started OR they say in contract that you cancel even after service starts.

    Thanked by 1totally_not_banned
  • cmeerwcmeerw Member

    Article 14 of DIRECTIVE 2011/83/EU OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT AND OF THE COUNCIL seems to be pretty clear that you can withdraw even after you have requested for service to be provided, you just have to pay for that part that you have used:

    Where a consumer exercises the right of withdrawal after having made a request in accordance with Article 7(3) or Article 8(8), the consumer shall pay to the trader an amount which is in proportion to what has been provided until the time the consumer has informed the trader of the exercise of the right of withdrawal, in comparison with the full coverage of the contract.

  • sucre13sucre13 Member

    @JosephF said:
    I never knew they used to give you 14 days free to cancel at no charge.

    That doesn't work anymore, it will be charged

  • xprebounxpreboun Member
    edited April 19

    @khnielsen said: I don't think I know any vendor that'd take the IP from you if you power off the VM

    Microsoft Azure, Amazon AWS and Google GCP, if you use their dynamic IP instead of static IP (static IP charge extra)

  • xprebounxpreboun Member
    edited April 20

    @sucre13 said:
    That doesn't work anymore, it will be charged

    And that's fair. You are SUPPOSED to pay when you use a service, unless there's a reason that you are not able to utilize the service and with no fault of your own.

    Can you ask for your full money back if you used any of your utility service (mobile, Internet, power, water) for some days?

  • sucre13sucre13 Member

    @xpreboun said:

    @sucre13 said:
    That doesn't work anymore, it will be charged

    And that's fair. You are SUPPOSED to pay when you use a service, unless there's a reason that you are not able to utilize the service and with no fault of your own.

    Can you ask for your full money back if you used any of your utility service (mobile, Internet, power, water) for some days?

    that's why I published this because many don't know this news

  • you use it, you pay for it. there is nothing strange...

    Thanked by 1BasToTheMax
  • I've been a paying customer for 6 months in Hetzner and the new change of having to pay usage per hour discounted my billing by 10 dollars. I really love it! Honestly, if you're going to complain about the new terms and conditions, think about why other big companies like AWS don't allow 14-day refund cancelation for their VPSes.

    Thanked by 1BasToTheMax
  • sitsssitss Member

    Should the topic be - Provider be careful with OP.

  • @alphnexus said:
    I've been a paying customer for 6 months in Hetzner and the new change of having to pay usage per hour discounted my billing by 10 dollars. I really love it! Honestly, if you're going to complain about the new terms and conditions, think about why other big companies like AWS don't allow 14-day refund cancelation for their VPSes.

    Actually that's quite true. I haven't really looked into it yet but my Hetzner bills seem to have shrunk too. In my opinion the old model was more simple but if a little more complexity means i get to pay less i'm not going to complain (to loudly) ;)

  • @sucre13 said:
    (...)
    that's why I published this because many don't know this news

    it's been announced since february https://docs.hetzner.com/general/others/new-billing-model/
    I'm sure there's a let thread discussing this.

    Thanked by 1totally_not_banned
  • @ScreenReader said:

    @sucre13 said:
    (...)
    that's why I published this because many don't know this news

    it's been announced since february https://docs.hetzner.com/general/others/new-billing-model/
    I'm sure there's a let thread discussing this.

    Yeah, to be honest it would actually have been pretty hard to ignore. I'm not really reading Hetzner's emails carefully at all and even i knew it was coming way in advance. Maybe OP's accounts get closed too often to actually get Hetzner's info mails at all? ;)

  • PulsedMediaPulsedMedia Member, Patron Provider
    edited April 20

    @fendix said:
    For legal reasons: the following text does not provide legal advice.

    I'm German myself and don't actually know the legal situation that well. Basically, you have a 14-day right to cancel distance contracts without reason, which is definitely part of the law § 355 BGB, § 312c BGB.

    My guess is that by canceling within 14 days, you automatically exercise your right to cancel. This should still be possible, but through a different method, not via the cancel button anymore. Until now, it was just a nice gesture from Hetzner to automatically exercise the right to cancel. But yes, it was heavily exploited, and the consequence is now hourly billing - rightly so :)

    Perhaps a German provider can clarify this ^

    We have similar legislature in Finland too.

    Guess what the exception to that is?
    Digital Services :)

    Yea, us providing 14day refund on shared services is not because lawfully we are obliged to -- but because we wanted to.

    We don't offer refunds for dedicated servers for similar reasons as OP.

    Hell, even today i had to deal with some Indian who demanded prorata refund they had paid upfront long term for, because he didn't want it anymore. That's not how commitment works. That's not how any of this works.
    It gets funny when people demand refunds for 0.09€ (SB Trial 30day) after the fact, or their 50€ a year deal on month 2 for prorata refund / full refund.

    Hell, one thing we've been dealing with is a actually a German scammer -- Bought a MD dedi from us, we made oopsie during a influx of orders and didn't have it in stock, we delivered another. For some super bizarre reason i don't know, he got not only given refund as goodwill + refund to credit (DOUBLE REFUND!) PLUS ANOTHER SERVER, no idea how that happened. Then he uses the server for like 3-4 months, renewal had come in -- and he opens a dispute for that.
    Now keeps spamming helpdesk with all kinds of threats and demanding service he paid negative amount for, lying etc. Saying we had never refunded him, and we also got the dispute money etc.

    Clever little scammer that, got months of free service and now trying to social engineer himself months more.

    Moral of the story is, never even given any goodwill to any user. It's either by regulations refund, or none at all. You give good will, they come asking for more. And no, it doesn't matter if it's only 1 out of 100 who does this shit (it's more), even that 1 is too much.

  • No shit. You've been scamming them by abusing their policy, so they made changes to protect themselves from your scamming.

    Thanked by 2Plioser BasToTheMax
  • sucre13sucre13 Member

    @dahartigan said:
    No shit. You've been scamming them by abusing their policy, so they made changes to protect themselves from your scamming.

    The question is that publishing something means receiving an insult??? in this forum??? I am simply announcing something and you respond with an insult, you insult a person without knowing

  • @sucre13 said:

    @dahartigan said:
    No shit. You've been scamming them by abusing their policy, so they made changes to protect themselves from your scamming.

    The question is that publishing something means receiving an insult???

    If what you publish is something controversial, what do you think?

    in this forum??? I am simply announcing something and you respond with an insult, you insult a person without knowing

    Well, I'm "simply announcing" your Hetzner scamming days are done.

    The only insult around here is you insulting the community's intelligence with your scamming. It brings shame to the family.

    Thanked by 1Plioser
  • sucre13sucre13 Member

    @dahartigan said:

    @sucre13 said:

    @dahartigan said:
    No shit. You've been scamming them by abusing their policy, so they made changes to protect themselves from your scamming.

    The question is that publishing something means receiving an insult???

    If what you publish is something controversial, what do you think?

    in this forum??? I am simply announcing something and you respond with an insult, you insult a person without knowing

    Well, I'm "simply announcing" your Hetzner scamming days are done.

    The only insult around here is you insulting the community's intelligence with your scamming. It brings shame to the family.

    It shows that you were not educated well when you were born and from what I see you have no respect for anyone, you have no right to insult me for publishing something that other people do not know, you do not know me if you insult someone like this person you don't know, I imagine how you treat a person in real life

  • sucre13sucre13 Member

    @dahartigan said:

    @sucre13 said:

    @dahartigan said:
    No shit. You've been scamming them by abusing their policy, so they made changes to protect themselves from your scamming.

    The question is that publishing something means receiving an insult???

    If what you publish is something controversial, what do you think?

    in this forum??? I am simply announcing something and you respond with an insult, you insult a person without knowing

    Well, I'm "simply announcing" your Hetzner scamming days are done.

    The only insult around here is you insulting the community's intelligence with your scamming. It brings shame to the family.

    When you are going to tell or insult someone, look at that person's history on lowendtalk.com. You are not intelligent because the first thing you read and the first thing you do is insult.

  • sucre13sucre13 Member

    @sucre13 said:

    @dahartigan said:

    @sucre13 said:

    @dahartigan said:
    No shit. You've been scamming them by abusing their policy, so they made changes to protect themselves from your scamming.

    The question is that publishing something means receiving an insult???

    If what you publish is something controversial, what do you think?

    in this forum??? I am simply announcing something and you respond with an insult, you insult a person without knowing

    Well, I'm "simply announcing" your Hetzner scamming days are done.

    The only insult around here is you insulting the community's intelligence with your scamming. It brings shame to the family.

    When you are going to tell or insult someone, look at that person's history on lowendtalk.com. You are not intelligent because the first thing you read and the first thing you do is insult.

    Quote the moment when I insulted the community for announcing something is insulting, what intelligence

  • sucre13sucre13 Member

    @sucre13 said:

    @sucre13 said:

    @dahartigan said:

    @sucre13 said:

    @dahartigan said:
    No shit. You've been scamming them by abusing their policy, so they made changes to protect themselves from your scamming.

    The question is that publishing something means receiving an insult???

    If what you publish is something controversial, what do you think?

    in this forum??? I am simply announcing something and you respond with an insult, you insult a person without knowing

    Well, I'm "simply announcing" your Hetzner scamming days are done.

    The only insult around here is you insulting the community's intelligence with your scamming. It brings shame to the family.

    When you are going to tell or insult someone, look at that person's history on lowendtalk.com. You are not intelligent because the first thing you read and the first thing you do is insult.

    Quote the moment when I insulted the community for announcing something is insulting, what intelligence

    what intelligence🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡 from another world

  • @sucre13 said:

    @sucre13 said:

    @sucre13 said:

    @dahartigan said:

    @sucre13 said:

    @dahartigan said:
    No shit. You've been scamming them by abusing their policy, so they made changes to protect themselves from your scamming.

    The question is that publishing something means receiving an insult???

    If what you publish is something controversial, what do you think?

    in this forum??? I am simply announcing something and you respond with an insult, you insult a person without knowing

    Well, I'm "simply announcing" your Hetzner scamming days are done.

    The only insult around here is you insulting the community's intelligence with your scamming. It brings shame to the family.

    When you are going to tell or insult someone, look at that person's history on lowendtalk.com. You are not intelligent because the first thing you read and the first thing you do is insult.

    Quote the moment when I insulted the community for announcing something is insulting, what intelligence

    what intelligence🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡 from another world

    Yes

    Thanked by 1Falzo
  • sucre13sucre13 Member

    @dahartigan said:

    @sucre13 said:

    @sucre13 said:

    @sucre13 said:

    @dahartigan said:

    @sucre13 said:

    @dahartigan said:
    No shit. You've been scamming them by abusing their policy, so they made changes to protect themselves from your scamming.

    The question is that publishing something means receiving an insult???

    If what you publish is something controversial, what do you think?

    in this forum??? I am simply announcing something and you respond with an insult, you insult a person without knowing

    Well, I'm "simply announcing" your Hetzner scamming days are done.

    The only insult around here is you insulting the community's intelligence with your scamming. It brings shame to the family.

    When you are going to tell or insult someone, look at that person's history on lowendtalk.com. You are not intelligent because the first thing you read and the first thing you do is insult.

    Quote the moment when I insulted the community for announcing something is insulting, what intelligence

    what intelligence🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡 from another world

    Yes


    Too intelligent intelligence of the other higher level

  • @sucre13 said:

    @dahartigan said:

    @sucre13 said:

    @sucre13 said:

    @sucre13 said:

    @dahartigan said:

    @sucre13 said:

    @dahartigan said:
    No shit. You've been scamming them by abusing their policy, so they made changes to protect themselves from your scamming.

    The question is that publishing something means receiving an insult???

    If what you publish is something controversial, what do you think?

    in this forum??? I am simply announcing something and you respond with an insult, you insult a person without knowing

    Well, I'm "simply announcing" your Hetzner scamming days are done.

    The only insult around here is you insulting the community's intelligence with your scamming. It brings shame to the family.

    When you are going to tell or insult someone, look at that person's history on lowendtalk.com. You are not intelligent because the first thing you read and the first thing you do is insult.

    Quote the moment when I insulted the community for announcing something is insulting, what intelligence

    what intelligence🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡 from another world

    Yes


    Too intelligent intelligence of the other higher level

    Thank you for your feedback.

  • sucre13sucre13 Member

    @dahartigan said:

    @sucre13 said:

    @dahartigan said:

    @sucre13 said:

    @sucre13 said:

    @sucre13 said:

    @dahartigan said:

    @sucre13 said:

    @dahartigan said:
    No shit. You've been scamming them by abusing their policy, so they made changes to protect themselves from your scamming.

    The question is that publishing something means receiving an insult???

    If what you publish is something controversial, what do you think?

    in this forum??? I am simply announcing something and you respond with an insult, you insult a person without knowing

    Well, I'm "simply announcing" your Hetzner scamming days are done.

    The only insult around here is you insulting the community's intelligence with your scamming. It brings shame to the family.

    When you are going to tell or insult someone, look at that person's history on lowendtalk.com. You are not intelligent because the first thing you read and the first thing you do is insult.

    Quote the moment when I insulted the community for announcing something is insulting, what intelligence

    what intelligence🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡 from another world

    Yes


    Too intelligent intelligence of the other higher level

    Thank you for your feedback.

    😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

  • God is Love !

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