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Come on man, dont leave now. ChatGPT can't answer to that question?
Give me some popcorn too, please.
There are 3 types of people in Romania:
Above we have a citizen who is in one of the 3 categories, mixing taxation with the police and economic crimes.
ANAF deals with the correct collection of taxes. As long as you don't hide your income or settle fictitious expenses, ANAF is not interested in knowing how much and to whom you sold for your income.
The police for the investigation of economic crime deal with those who violate the above provisions, but usually on a large scale or when the crimes are well hidden under the cover of multiple companies, offshore companies and others like that.
There is a nuance that our citizen does not want to see, namely the fact that there is a major difference between having information about the commission of a criminal act and hiding it and not having information, because the law does not oblige you. (according to your principle, all companies that accept money but do not ask for KYC are illegal).
Unlike our child who threatens with a gun of water, this very year I had a case where two of our VPSs were used to infect with malware some PCs of a Norwegian oil company, company which had contracts even with NATO.
Having the past experience in the case where our client had fake data in the system, payments with cryptocurrencies and temporary email, I know very well that I was part of the criminal investigation file and everything ended well.
I will not give information about the investigation because I don't want to, but maybe now it makes more sense the posts in which I warn the one with the host in the basement, because he hosts all the shits with good knowledge, unlike us who do not tolerate such practices (easy to prove through advertisements and T&C).
That is Retail Store sales, and for that you have to have also a cash register, and the customer has to be present at the moment of the sale, so this does not apply to on-line sales at all, not only RO.
You are obligated by law to have the customer's name on the Invoice for the service for on-line sales, and actually the obligation goes both ways, as the transfer of the ownership of the product/service is via invoice, and both parties have to be on it, like a contract, as that it actually is. Payment is not transfer of ownership, the invoice is, that is why you get a proforma invoice ( that has no ownership value, only an order value ) when you make an order, and the invoice is generated after the payment.
The only way this anonymous will fly is if he declares a fictive name, and pays with crypto, a yeahm and no KYC.
And if the IRS comes bashing thru the door, you are covered, as the client is responsible for the data provided, not you. You only have the option to accept or decline such a transaction.
Chears!
I will check what you say, but the way you look at the receipts does not change in any way the payment of the taxes that have been and continue to be paid (16% profit tax, 19% VAT, dividends, etc.)
Sure, here ya go.
Okay.In conclusion, Have a good day!The TAX part of a sale has nothing to do with the actual way you sale ( order + proforma + payment type + final invoice), or I did not get what you wrote, please elaborate.
Taxes are something that come after.
VAT is extremely simple, for It services ( VPS and so on ) VAT is not added for NON EU Persons/Companies.
VAT is added to EU Persons or Companies that are not VAT payers in thir country and to all persons and companies in your country regardless of their status,
For EU Companies you are obligated to check at the moment of the order by the way, use VIES portlal for that. - and this is actually how VAT system works in EU.
EDIT:
regarding Crypto, you do not actually get crypto if you are using a crypto processing operator, you will get the good old US Dollar. So in your books, you will have a payment from the client "Santa Claus" with address "North Pole" in value of 8 USD ( now that he payed in BTC, that is he's problem, payment gateway forwarded you USD )
USA has no VAT system, they have Sales TAX, and that is another thing.
Pardon me but now it's not fair and just too, just the other way around. Maybe you could put "cheap" or, if there's enough room, "rebated" in front of "Hosting". After all, there is a decent rebate/discount.
Just be careful with the VAT, because the IRS will burn you for it.
Fiscal Laws change in RO each month, I advise you caution, especially for 2024. There will be a whole shit-show on this, as the GOV ran out of money, big time, the fucked up during COVID ( as all countries) and the war in Ukrain did not help either for the past 1 year.
VIES System
We pay VAT for everything we collect, this is one of the costs of anonymity.
EDITED:
VAT is not a COST!
If you earn 100 LEI vat in sales and spend 80 vat LEI in purchases, you will own the IRS 20 LEI for that month.
If you earn 100 LEI vat in sales and spend 100 vat LEI in purchases, you will own the IRS 0
If you earn 100 LEI vat in sales and spend 120 vat LEI in purchases, you will own the IRS -20 ( and do not ask for a refund, as you will have a fiscal analysis for VAT reimbursement, it is stipulated in the fiscal law.
VAT is calculated as:
VAT Collected minus VAT Spent = VAT Owned to the IRS
You are the CEO, so it is up to you to take business decisions, having a lot of $ in the bank does not meant you can go on a purchase spree, you first have to look at the expenses you will have for the next 2-3 mo and act accordingly. There are a ton of factors in this mix.
Anyawy, since now I have doubts about invoices in whmcs, I reverted the changes on whmcs register page.
Thank you all!
I'll do my homework in the meantime:)
VAT is not your money, your price is 8 USD + VAT, that VAT is the GOV's, not yours.
If you collect a lot of VAT, that means you have mostly EU Customers, non companies.
If you collect VAT from NON EU Customers, you messed up the billing settings. If this is the case, I advise you to re-check them, and have a talk with an accountant, a good one.
I have an accountant in my family and she explained quite clearly that if I don't ask for VAT and don't ask for KYC, I'm definitely in trouble.
KYC not so much, putting VAT in the wrong way, will get you trouble, if you over collect not so much, as the IRS will not come and say, hey here is you plus $ you gave us, naaa, the just gona fine you big for not doing your job, if you under collect, that will actually bankrupt you as the fine that they will give you will be substantial, if you go to court with them they will judge you for stealing the GOV's money, cause remember it is GOV's money.
WHMCS VAT Billing is pretty nice, and it actually works, give it a try.
@FlorinMarian
Please, at least try not to put official documents, even edited on a public website. Remember, anything that you say or do can be used against you in the court of law, and that is not just a US quote.
This is not a court room. You are not being judged here for crimes against humanity.
You can prove your point whit explained facts, and public information.
It amaze me how clueless you are.
Who, me?
Do you have home dc? 😂
Not since I was 19, and oh boy, do I wish to be 19 again
Santa passed by and left this. Any idea what this code does?
XMAS-2023
@host_c @AndreiGhesi
I've read tons of legislation and I'm still not completely clear, but let me give you another case study.
You buy a bus ticket or a parking space by SMS.
The seller does not know who you are, nor where you live, and does not issue you a tax receipt or invoice.
Is this evasion or breaking any other law?
I don’t speak Romanian or know the Romanian legal system that well, and the answer to this is easy to find.
In both cases the relevant legislation - Fiscal Code (Law No 227/2015), Article 319, Section (10)(c) - exempts from the obligation to issue an invoice, unless requested, for operations involving the delivery of goods and services …;
for which it is mandatory to issue legally approved documents, without the nomination of the buyer, such as: transport of people based on travel tickets or subscriptions, access based on ticket to: shows, museums, cinemas, sporting events, fairs, exhibitions;
which by their nature do not allow the supplier/provider to identify the beneficiary, such as: deliveries of goods made through commercial vending machines, car parking services whose consideration is collect through machines, electronic recharge services of prepaid phone cards.
So no, it’s neither evasion or breaking any other law, as there are valid exemptions in both cases.
I'm not here you teach you how to run a bussines or how fiscal legislation works, you needed to know this before you opened you bussines.
You don't know? you shut the fuck up listen to people who want to help. Don't like public opinions? Don't post on a public forum.
Just fuck around and you will find out.
@AndreiGhesi - I will try this one, one more time, don't loose it pls
So Florian, again, that is RETAIL!, for the love of GOD.
RETAIL means both parties are present physically at the sale, face 2 face in person. You and the Lady selling the ticket, personal data is not written on the ticket, as she might identify you by a photo in 48H if asked, for whatever reason.
You pay cash you get the ticket + receipt.
You pay card ( phone, watch is the same as it is linked to the Debit/Credit Card ) you also get a receipt
Both without a name on it.
ONLINE - Parties are not present FACE 2 FACE!
So the sale is different in the eyes of the law, this is global.
first of all there is no CASH, so only BANK Transfer ( CARD Payment, or whatever, it is a bank transfer at it's core )
For ca Bank Transfer to occur, the 2 BANKS involved have to know from whose account the money goes to who's account and WHY!
So there has to be a WHY, the WHY is the service you provide, and there has to be a so called "contract", the contract is a mix between the Product Description, ORDER + TOS. The Invoice is the transfer of the ownership, from you to your Customer.
So to finalize the sale, you need to give the customer the service, an that is by invoice.
Invoice by definition, has mandatory fields, that includes both parties data, name, address, bank account numbers.
There is nothing anonymous in an invoice. Only of at least 1 of the parties declares false data. And that is illegal.
I might have "bent" some explanations above, but only to be more understandable for you.
Only anonymous way you can do this, if he writes you from a temporary e-mail, pays crypto into your crypto account, and you do not register this transaction in the books of your company. Otherwise, there is a trail.
Understood?
EDIT:
This is why KYC was implemented by bigger companies, so they have real data on the customer to offload the responsibility in case he does something unlawful.
And with this you are protected. If you sell to anonim people you are directly responsabile for the action of those people. Even if the client use fake information you are covered. The police or the authority who is requesting the info have somenthing and you are covered.
Stop thinking we are "jealous" or have somenthing with you, learn what you can and stop thinking you know everything.
I never said that you're jealous, just that you hate me
Anyway, thanks for help!
@FlorinMarian
A small improvement for CPU performance
Im glad to see there are people in LET that helps with taxes and VAT. Perhaps someone would help me doing my tax return? /s
@FlorinMarian As an individual and not your customer, I would recommend you to get an accountant, that has expertise about the anonymity and taxes, instead of relying someone in your family. I mean a real independent accountant.
Where the value is less than €100 (or equivalent), simplified invoices can be issued (Law No 227/2015 - Article 319, Section 12(a)) and the information that the invoice must contain in such cases (Law No 227/2015 - Article 319, Section 21) does not include the clients details.
I doubt @FlorinMarian has any/many transactions over €100, so they may well actually be compliant with the law. Similarly, I may be wrong, but I doubt they meet the threshold required to register for VAT collection or have voluntarily registered at this time, so related regulations may not yet be applicable.