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Don't pay, before provider provides test IP
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Don't pay, before provider provides test IP

Otherwise you may get a terrible network.

--- 208.65.*.* ping statistics ---
100 packets transmitted, 62 packets received, 38% packet loss
round-trip min/avg/max = 604.183/664.124/699.166 ms
What to do?
  1. As a consumer, will you apply for a refund for this network?126 votes
    1. Yes
      67.46%
    2. No
      16.67%
    3. Uncertain
      15.87%
  2. As a provider, will you agree to refund?126 votes
    1. Yes
      41.27%
    2. No
      30.95%
    3. Uncertain
      27.78%
«1

Comments

  • Is it you or the provider having network issues? or a transit provider? We mis context

  • tentortentor Member, Patron Provider

    All providers should have looking glass

  • Name and shame

    Thanked by 1dedotatedwam
  • Yeah, where are those packets being lost?

  • MJJ?

  • yoursunnyyoursunny Member, IPv6 Advocate

    @tentor said:
    All providers should have looking glass

    @HostSlick is guilty: looking glass is on Cloudflare and is inaccessible too.

  • @tentor said:
    All providers should have looking glass

    Indeed, even better with iperf3 option.

  • 1gservers1gservers Member, Patron Provider

    Did you open a ticket with the provider and provide MTRs to assist them with troubleshooting? It is very often that there’s simply a bad pathway that the provider needs to route around.

    Thanked by 1dedicados
  • Yeah there's just too much info missing. And did the provider in question have a looking glass? Is it just a server in someone's basement (there's a few of those around here!)? What research did you do on the provider? Did you just sign up for the cheapest thing on the front page? Is that thread now buried?

  • @kait said:
    Is it you or the provider having network issues? or a transit provider? We mis context
    @totally_not_banned said:
    Yeah, where are those packets being lost?

    MTR from home to VPS:

    # mtr -n -c 100 -w 208.65.*.*
    Start: 2023-12-02T13:39:48+0000
    HOST: Alpine          Loss%   Snt   Last   Avg  Best  Wrst StDev
      1.|-- 192.168.1.1        0.0%   100    0.9   1.3   0.7   9.4   1.3
      2.|-- 221.180.*.*       31.0%   100    2.9   3.0   2.0  10.3   1.1
      3.|-- 221.180.*.*       36.0%   100    6.2   5.2   4.4   9.4   0.8
      4.|-- 218.204.*.*      42.0%   100   14.9  11.7  10.2  17.1   1.5
      5.|-- ???             100.0   100    0.0   0.0   0.0   0.0   0.0
      6.|-- 221.183.*.*      98.0%   100   21.4  21.2  20.9  21.4   0.3
      7.|-- 221.183.89.241  52.0%   100   21.1  20.7  19.7  26.4   1.4
      8.|-- 221.183.92.22   21.0%   100   24.8  20.9  19.6  30.1   1.8
      9.|-- 221.183.68.126   0.0%   100   54.7  53.0  50.2  70.5   3.9
     10.|-- 223.120.15.57    0.0%   100  267.1 257.4 254.2 287.1   4.9
     11.|-- 223.120.10.198   0.0%   100  244.4 245.2 244.1 252.3   1.4
     12.|-- ???             100.0   100    0.0   0.0   0.0   0.0   0.0
     13.|-- 130.117.48.145  31.0%   100  564.4 603.7 472.3 734.9  54.1
     14.|-- 154.54.60.173   19.0%   100  597.9 611.3 504.4 713.8  42.4
     15.|-- 154.54.72.226   24.0%   100  466.3 585.9 466.3 661.1  47.2
     16.|-- 154.54.36.225   21.0%   100  621.4 648.8 541.4 754.2  46.6
     17.|-- 154.54.57.93    22.0%   100  532.3 602.0 496.4 728.0  49.2
     18.|-- 149.11.*.*       22.0%   100  641.7 670.7 576.7 781.1  49.2
     19.|-- 208.65.*.*        35.0%   100  464.8 518.2 407.0 632.2  54.2
    

    MTR from VPS to home:

    # mtr -n -c 100 -w 221.180.*.*
    Start: 2023-12-02T13:41:30+0000
    HOST: gJzVo          Loss%   Snt   Last   Avg  Best  Wrst StDev
      1.|-- 208.65.*.*        0.0%   100    0.2   0.2   0.1   0.9   0.1
      2.|-- 149.11.*.*      0.0%   100    1.3   1.3   1.1   1.8   0.1
      3.|-- 154.54.57.94    0.0%   100    7.9   7.9   7.5   8.6   0.1
      4.|-- 154.54.56.66    0.0%   100   12.1  13.3  12.0  43.5   4.5
      5.|-- 154.54.39.225   0.0%   100   23.7  23.8  23.5  26.3   0.3
      6.|-- 154.54.85.241   0.0%   100   94.3 100.9  94.0 193.0  18.6
      7.|-- 154.54.7.158    0.0%   100  110.8 110.9 110.6 120.8   1.0
      8.|-- 154.54.28.70    0.0%   100  124.2 125.7 124.0 173.2   7.0
      9.|-- 154.54.0.54     0.0%   100  140.2 140.5 140.1 146.7   0.9
     10.|-- 154.54.5.217    0.0%   100  148.8 148.8 148.6 151.4   0.3
     11.|-- 154.54.44.86    0.0%   100  160.4 160.5 160.3 160.7   0.1
     12.|-- 154.54.27.118   0.0%   100  160.4 160.5 160.3 161.4   0.2
     13.|-- 38.104.85.162  27.0%   100  347.1 412.4 305.4 537.9  51.7
     14.|-- 223.120.6.217  28.0%   100  401.7 409.1 298.7 536.1  52.0
     15.|-- 223.120.12.178 19.0%   100  474.7 539.8 424.7 663.7  52.1
     16.|-- 221.183.89.178 39.0%   100  471.4 540.2 428.5 668.0  52.7
     17.|-- 221.183.89.33  92.0%   100  619.5 633.9 568.3 668.7  31.3
     18.|-- 221.183.*.*     66.0%   100  527.1 541.4 428.9 659.0  54.1
     19.|-- 221.183.*.*    60.0%   100  571.1 570.7 485.3 694.1  45.6
     20.|-- 221.183.*.*    80.0%   100  546.0 535.3 452.8 597.8  36.5
     21.|-- ???            100.0   100    0.0   0.0   0.0   0.0   0.0
     22.|-- 221.180.*.*    30.0%   100  488.1 580.2 480.2 707.9  50.2
    

    @dosai said:

    MJJ?

    How do you know?

    @1gservers said:
    Did you open a ticket with the provider and provide MTRs to assist them with troubleshooting? It is very often that there’s simply a bad pathway that the provider needs to route around.

    I send two traceroute reports to Provider. Then got answered:

    they are going on two different Internet paths.
    It is your provider who can change this, not us.


    @lewellyn said:
    Yeah there's just too much info missing. And did the provider in question have a looking glass? Is it just a server in someone's basement (there's a few of those around here!)? What research did you do on the provider? Did you just sign up for the cheapest thing on the front page? Is that thread now buried?

    Provider's looking glass does not provide test IP. I don't know if he is oneman IDC. I buy it in a flash sale on the front page. That provider still alive.

  • That's a clear mjj. Half a second of ping is insane.

  • edited December 2023

    @pnq said:

    # mtr -n -c 100 -w 208.65.*.*
    Start: 2023-12-02T13:39:48+0000
    HOST: Alpine          Loss%   Snt   Last   Avg  Best  Wrst StDev
      1.|-- 192.168.1.1        0.0%   100    0.9   1.3   0.7   9.4   1.3
      2.|-- 221.180.*.*       31.0%   100    2.9   3.0   2.0  10.3   1.1
      3.|-- 221.180.*.*       36.0%   100    6.2   5.2   4.4   9.4   0.8
      4.|-- 218.204.*.*      42.0%   100   14.9  11.7  10.2  17.1   1.5
      5.|-- ???             100.0   100    0.0   0.0   0.0   0.0   0.0
      6.|-- 221.183.*.*      98.0%   100   21.4  21.2  20.9  21.4   0.3
      7.|-- 221.183.89.241  52.0%   100   21.1  20.7  19.7  26.4   1.4
      8.|-- 221.183.92.22   21.0%   100   24.8  20.9  19.6  30.1   1.8
      9.|-- 221.183.68.126   0.0%   100   54.7  53.0  50.2  70.5   3.9
     10.|-- 223.120.15.57    0.0%   100  267.1 257.4 254.2 287.1   4.9
     11.|-- 223.120.10.198   0.0%   100  244.4 245.2 244.1 252.3   1.4
     12.|-- ???             100.0   100    0.0   0.0   0.0   0.0   0.0
     13.|-- 130.117.48.145  31.0%   100  564.4 603.7 472.3 734.9  54.1
     14.|-- 154.54.60.173   19.0%   100  597.9 611.3 504.4 713.8  42.4
     15.|-- 154.54.72.226   24.0%   100  466.3 585.9 466.3 661.1  47.2
     16.|-- 154.54.36.225   21.0%   100  621.4 648.8 541.4 754.2  46.6
     17.|-- 154.54.57.93    22.0%   100  532.3 602.0 496.4 728.0  49.2
     18.|-- 149.11.*.*       22.0%   100  641.7 670.7 576.7 781.1  49.2
     19.|-- 208.65.*.*        35.0%   100  464.8 518.2 407.0 632.2  54.2
    

    MTR from VPS to home:

    # mtr -n -c 100 -w 221.180.*.*
    Start: 2023-12-02T13:41:30+0000
    HOST: gJzVo          Loss%   Snt   Last   Avg  Best  Wrst StDev
      1.|-- 208.65.*.*        0.0%   100    0.2   0.2   0.1   0.9   0.1
      2.|-- 149.11.*.*      0.0%   100    1.3   1.3   1.1   1.8   0.1
      3.|-- 154.54.57.94    0.0%   100    7.9   7.9   7.5   8.6   0.1
      4.|-- 154.54.56.66    0.0%   100   12.1  13.3  12.0  43.5   4.5
      5.|-- 154.54.39.225   0.0%   100   23.7  23.8  23.5  26.3   0.3
      6.|-- 154.54.85.241   0.0%   100   94.3 100.9  94.0 193.0  18.6
      7.|-- 154.54.7.158    0.0%   100  110.8 110.9 110.6 120.8   1.0
      8.|-- 154.54.28.70    0.0%   100  124.2 125.7 124.0 173.2   7.0
      9.|-- 154.54.0.54     0.0%   100  140.2 140.5 140.1 146.7   0.9
     10.|-- 154.54.5.217    0.0%   100  148.8 148.8 148.6 151.4   0.3
     11.|-- 154.54.44.86    0.0%   100  160.4 160.5 160.3 160.7   0.1
     12.|-- 154.54.27.118   0.0%   100  160.4 160.5 160.3 161.4   0.2
     13.|-- 38.104.85.162  27.0%   100  347.1 412.4 305.4 537.9  51.7
     14.|-- 223.120.6.217  28.0%   100  401.7 409.1 298.7 536.1  52.0
     15.|-- 223.120.12.178 19.0%   100  474.7 539.8 424.7 663.7  52.1
     16.|-- 221.183.89.178 39.0%   100  471.4 540.2 428.5 668.0  52.7
     17.|-- 221.183.89.33  92.0%   100  619.5 633.9 568.3 668.7  31.3
     18.|-- 221.183.*.*     66.0%   100  527.1 541.4 428.9 659.0  54.1
     19.|-- 221.183.*.*    60.0%   100  571.1 570.7 485.3 694.1  45.6
     20.|-- 221.183.*.*    80.0%   100  546.0 535.3 452.8 597.8  36.5
     21.|-- ???            100.0   100    0.0   0.0   0.0   0.0   0.0
     22.|-- 221.180.*.*    30.0%   100  488.1 580.2 480.2 707.9  50.2
    

    I guess it's pretty obvious the provider isn't the source of the problem here. Maybe they could find another way of reaching China Mobile's network but given it's well known how fucked up international connectivity to china is in general they might not even have a chance to work around what is pretty much someone else's problem.

    Thanked by 1c1vhosting
  • @totally_not_banned said: I guess it's pretty obvious the provider isn't the source of the problem here. Maybe they could find another way of reaching China Mobile's network but given it's well known how fucked up international connectivity to china is in general they might not even have a chance to work around what is pretty much someone else's problem.

    DPI servers are overloaded :lol:

  • @pnq said:
    MTR from VPS to home:

    # mtr -n -c 100 -w 221.180.*.*
    

    China Mobile?

  • @totally_not_banned said:

    I guess it's pretty obvious the provider isn't the source of the problem here. Maybe they could find another way of reaching China Mobile's network but given it's well known how fucked up international connectivity to china is in general they might not even have a chance to work around what is pretty much someone else's problem.

    Some VPS provider can provide a good network connectivity under China Mobile's network.

    For example, my other VPS priced at $12/year:

    --- 50.114.*.* ping statistics ---
    100 packets transmitted, 100 received, 0% packet loss, time 99991ms
    rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 231.312/232.694/242.695/1.863 ms
    
    
  • edited December 2023

    @pnq said:

    @totally_not_banned said:

    I guess it's pretty obvious the provider isn't the source of the problem here. Maybe they could find another way of reaching China Mobile's network but given it's well known how fucked up international connectivity to china is in general they might not even have a chance to work around what is pretty much someone else's problem.

    Some VPS provider can provide a good network connectivity under China Mobile's network.

    For example, my other VPS priced at $12/year:

    --- 50.114.*.* ping statistics ---
    100 packets transmitted, 100 received, 0% packet loss, time 99991ms
    rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 231.312/232.694/242.695/1.863 ms
    
    

    Yeah, it's possible but those premium routes are quite expensive. It's basically the result of a monopoly trying to extort money for decent china connectivity. If you want someone to complain about it's those guys. Can't expect a cheap provider to pay through their nose just because a single country has no decent connectivity at realistic prices.

    Thanked by 2lewellyn tentor
  • @totally_not_banned said:
    I guess it's pretty obvious the provider isn't the source of the problem here. Maybe they could find another way of reaching China Mobile's network but given it's well known how fucked up international connectivity to china is in general they might not even have a chance to work around what is pretty much someone else's problem.

    Now the round-trip time from VPS to the user end is 462ms, while the time of VPS to intermediate node 38.104.85.162 is 361ms.

    361/462=0.78

    Therefore, 78% of time spent outside of China. How can you say that this is a problem in China?

    --- 221.180.*.* ping statistics ---
    10 packets transmitted, 8 received, 20% packet loss, time 9011ms
    rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 420.114/462.994/522.609/34.954 ms
    
    --- 38.104.85.162 ping statistics ---
    27 packets transmitted, 19 received, 29.6296% packet loss, time 26110ms
    rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 265.596/361.759/451.596/52.444 ms
    
    

    @totally_not_banned said:
    Yeah, it's possible but those premium routes are quite expensive. It's basically the result of a monopoly trying to extort money for decent china connectivity. If you want someone to complain about it's those guys. Can't expect a cheap provider to pay through their nose just because a single country has no decent connectivity at realistic prices.

    Have you tested all countries? Why are you certain that this is a problem for a single country?

  • @pnq Can you share these test results (screenshots)?
    https://ping.pe/
    https://dnstools.ws/

  • LOL bro never heard about GFW and whatnot

    Thanked by 1tentor
  • NeoonNeoon Community Contributor, Veteran

    Even if you get direct china connectivity, you are not going to avoid the GFW.
    The only way to avoid the GFW is to leave china.

    Maybe try getting your hands on a hong kong sim, apparently these are unfiltered but no idea if that even would work.

  • @pnq said:
    Have you tested all countries? Why are you certain that this is a problem for a single country?

    No, i've obviously not tested every country. There's literally no non third world country though whose routes are as notoriously congested as China's with the being that getting better routes is possible but only at an outrageous price.

    Besides like others said there is the GFW which not only sucks because it's a filter but also for performance and it's not the fault of the host.

    @Neoon said:
    Even if you get direct china connectivity, you are not going to avoid the GFW.

    Are you sure the packet loss absolutely has to be GFW related. I mean China routes are often times pretty congested. Couldn't it be just that also?

  • NeoonNeoon Community Contributor, Veteran

    @totally_not_banned said:

    @pnq said:
    Have you tested all countries? Why are you certain that this is a problem for a single country?

    No, i've obviously not tested every country. There's literally no non third world country though whose routes are as notoriously congested as China's with the being that getting better routes is possible but only at an outrageous price.

    Besides like others said there is the GFW which not only sucks because it's a filter but also for performance and it's not the fault of the host.

    @Neoon said:
    Even if you get direct china connectivity, you are not going to avoid the GFW.

    Are you sure the packet loss absolutely has to be GFW related. I mean China routes are often times pretty congested. Couldn't it be just that also?

    No, however, the GFW is actively probing connections.
    You just pay to avoid network congestion.

    If you have not something that's 100% bullet proof, not detectable, you are wasting money on nothing.

    Thanked by 1totally_not_banned
  • edited December 2023

    @Neoon said:

    @totally_not_banned said:

    @pnq said:
    Have you tested all countries? Why are you certain that this is a problem for a single country?

    No, i've obviously not tested every country. There's literally no non third world country though whose routes are as notoriously congested as China's with the being that getting better routes is possible but only at an outrageous price.

    Besides like others said there is the GFW which not only sucks because it's a filter but also for performance and it's not the fault of the host.

    @Neoon said:
    Even if you get direct china connectivity, you are not going to avoid the GFW.

    Are you sure the packet loss absolutely has to be GFW related. I mean China routes are often times pretty congested. Couldn't it be just that also?

    No, however, the GFW is actively probing connections.
    You just pay to avoid network congestion.

    If you have not something that's 100% bullet proof, not detectable, you are wasting money on nothing.

    Pheew, thanks. I already feared that i had been talking nonsense because there was some tell tale sign i didn't know about which made it 100% certain the GFW was at fault.

  • NeoonNeoon Community Contributor, Veteran

    @totally_not_banned said:

    @Neoon said:

    @totally_not_banned said:

    @pnq said:
    Have you tested all countries? Why are you certain that this is a problem for a single country?

    No, i've obviously not tested every country. There's literally no non third world country though whose routes are as notoriously congested as China's with the being that getting better routes is possible but only at an outrageous price.

    Besides like others said there is the GFW which not only sucks because it's a filter but also for performance and it's not the fault of the host.

    @Neoon said:
    Even if you get direct china connectivity, you are not going to avoid the GFW.

    Are you sure the packet loss absolutely has to be GFW related. I mean China routes are often times pretty congested. Couldn't it be just that also?

    No, however, the GFW is actively probing connections.
    You just pay to avoid network congestion.

    If you have not something that's 100% bullet proof, not detectable, you are wasting money on nothing.

    Pheew, thanks. I already feared that i had been talking nonsense because there was some tell tale sign i didn't know about which made it 100% certain the GFW was at fault.

    Here is a technical video about the GFW.
    Its a bit old but should be good enough for the basics.

    Thanked by 1totally_not_banned
  • jarjar Patron Provider, Top Host, Veteran
    edited December 2023

    Given that you’re from China I assume you filed a chargeback before even running the MTR so no worries 🤣

    (Yes I'm still bitter because today was yet another chargeback, every single one this season from China)

  • HomuraNetworkHomuraNetwork Member, Patron Provider

    The conclusion is right, particularly for the Mainland of China. So check the looking glass BEFORE you buy. It could be located either on the product page or the homepage.

    In your case, packet loss may occur in China Mobile, specifically from CMI to Cogent. There could also be issues due to your MTR results indicating that you are not located in Guangdong, even though your packets are leaving China from there.

    And if you attempt to connect from China, DO NOT expect a reliable route and connection unless the provider guarantees accuracy. Direct connections to Tier 2 ISPs in China are very very costly. I believe every provider aspires to have better connection to China but it appears challenging to achieve this within the VPS which under 10USD/M.

    Additionally, due to the black-box nature of the GFW, that could affect ICMP traffic, especially since the ICMP Tunnel can be used as a tool to circumvent internet censorship.

    Thanked by 1bacloud
  • bacloudbacloud Member, Patron Provider

    When I saw the first post, the first idea in my mind was - China. True...

    Well, we receive orders from China, also many refund requests, even we recommend using our looking glass to check the network before ordering.

  • Providers usually provide incorrect IP addresses that do not match the actual network they use.

  • Daniel15Daniel15 Veteran
    edited December 2023

    @tentor said:
    All providers should have looking glass

    Eventually I want to make https://dnstools.ws easily self-hostable so hosts can use it as a looking glass with a nice UI :) going to track that here: https://github.com/Daniel15/dnstools/issues/79

    Thanked by 2HostEONS _MS_
  • Sir, please turn off your GFW and retest

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