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Shitty global network*
They're pretty OK in their region, but worse globally. CDN77 also is a CDN company (it's in the name) so they peer directly with most ISPs in Sweden. I'd be sort of surprised if actual Swedish users noticed a difference.
You don't have 31 local PoP's for nothing
Also, GleSYS isn't focused on their global network, so it makes sense it's not the best, all I'm saying is that IN SWEDEN, they're the best connected DC that there is, point blank
@fluffernutter
If I'm not reading this wrong, a simple tracert from Oderland (a large web hosting company in Sweden, with their own DC in Gothenburg) it does the same thing..
Gothenburg > Copenhagen > Stockholm
traceroute to 31.220.15.232 (31.220.15.232), 30 hops max, 60 byte packets
Again, same as for me in Malmö, but in this case from Gothenburg, with Portlane, it goes straight form city of origin to destination, all within Portlane's network, no weird routes across the country and back:
traceroute to 159.253.31.95 (159.253.31.95), 30 hops max, 60 byte packets
@hosthatch does Chicago still have DDOS protection? how about New York?
London - 2 AMD EPYC cores with 1.5X RAM and storage
`---------------------------- network-speed.xyz ----------------------------
A simple script to test network performance using speedtest-cli
Version : v2023.09.30
Global Speedtest : wget -qO- network-speed.xyz | bash
Region Speedtest : wget -qO- network-speed.xyz | bash -s -- -r
Basic System Info
CPU Model : AMD EPYC 7513 32-Core Processor
CPU Cores : 2 @ 2595.122 MHz
CPU Cache : 512 KB
AES-NI : ✔ Enabled
VM-x/AMD-V : ✔ Enabled
Total Disk : 68.7 GB (1.6 GB Used)
Total RAM : 5.8 GB (380.8 MB Used)
System uptime : 0 days, 12 hour 21 min
Load average : 0.10, 0.03, 0.01
OS : Debian GNU/Linux 12
Arch : x86_64 (64 Bit)
Kernel : 6.1.0-9-amd64
Virtualization : KVM
Basic Network Info
IPv6 Access : ✔ Online
IPv4 Access : ✔ Online
ISP : HostHatch
ASN : AS63473 HostHatch, LLC
Host : HostHatch, LLC
Location : London, England-ENG, United Kingdom
Location (IPv4) : Kuala Lumpur, Kuala Lumpur, MY
Speedtest.net (Region: GLOBAL)
Location Latency Loss DL Speed UP Speed Server
ISP: HostHatch
Nearest 0.21 ms 0.0% 8135.96 Mbps 9172.98 Mbps Swish Fibre - London
Kochi, IN 161.99 ms 0.0% 3355.73 Mbps 484.37 Mbps Asianet Broadband - Cochin
Bangalore, IN 181.18 ms 0.0% 3748.21 Mbps 470.06 Mbps Bharti Airtel Ltd - Bangalore
Chennai, IN 143.86 ms N/A 4202.89 Mbps 560.72 Mbps Jio - Chennai
Mumbai, IN 128.68 ms 0.0% 4134.88 Mbps 630.01 Mbps i3D.net - Mumbai
Delhi, IN 142.60 ms 0.0% 1954.58 Mbps 542.14 Mbps Tata Teleservices Ltd - New Delhi
Seattle, US FAILED
Los Angeles, US 137.23 ms 0.0% 3776.83 Mbps 603.65 Mbps ReliableSite Hosting - Los Angeles, CA
Dallas, US 111.88 ms 0.0% 3958.63 Mbps 733.96 Mbps Hivelocity - Dallas, TX
Miami, US 105.22 ms 0.0% 3137.48 Mbps 737.31 Mbps AT&T - Miami, FL
New York, US 71.63 ms 0.0% 8259.82 Mbps 1184.80 Mbps GSL Networks - New York, NY
Toronto, CA 78.93 ms 0.0% 5740.46 Mbps 1005.93 Mbps Rogers - Toronto, ON
London, UK 1.30 ms 0.0% 8034.14 Mbps 7747.69 Mbps VeloxServ Communications - London
Amsterdam, NL 8.69 ms 0.0% 7933.17 Mbps 7252.97 Mbps 31173 Services AB - Amsterdam
Paris, FR 8.88 ms N/A 8144.13 Mbps 6846.01 Mbps Axione - Paris
Frankfurt, DE 15.91 ms 0.0% 7657.39 Mbps 5135.87 Mbps 23M GmbH - Frankfurt am Main
Warsaw, PL 28.32 ms 0.0% 4978.89 Mbps 2841.43 Mbps UPC Polska - Warszawa
Bucharest, RO 42.45 ms 0.0% 6144.38 Mbps 1957.60 Mbps Vodafone Romania Fixed – Bucharest - Bucharest
Jeddah, SA 73.69 ms 0.0% 7102.33 Mbps 1068.17 Mbps Saudi Telecom Company
Dubai, AE 133.97 ms 0.0% 4978.93 Mbps 580.46 Mbps du - Dubai
Fujairah, AE 114.81 ms 0.0% 4586.94 Mbps 713.82 Mbps ETISALAT-UAE - Fujairah
Tokyo, JP 244.01 ms N/A 3021.75 Mbps 329.23 Mbps fdcservers.net - Tokyo
Shanghai, CU-CN 275.55 ms 0.0% 1030.79 Mbps 285.70 Mbps China Unicom 5G - Shanghai
Nanjing, CT-CN 253.93 ms 35.3% 2347.72 Mbps 47.35 Mbps China Telecom JiangSu 5G - Nanjing
Hong Kong, CN 232.05 ms N/A 2826.07 Mbps 341.45 Mbps STC - Hong Kong
Singapore, SG 234.41 ms 0.0% 3275.31 Mbps 327.59 Mbps i3D.net - Singapore
Jakarta, ID 211.60 ms 0.0% 3670.88 Mbps 390.66 Mbps PT. Telekomunikasi Indonesia - Jakarta
Avg DL Speed : 4851.50 Mbps
Avg UL Speed : 1999.69 Mbps
Total DL Data : 181.40 GB
Total UL Data : 51.97 GB
Total Data : 233.37 GB
Duration : 12 min 41 sec
System Time : 16/10/2023 - 22:36:01 UTC
Total Script Runs : 25394
---------------------------------------------------------------------------`
I already have an older @hosthatch promo VPS and am happy with it (although it's only Xeon E5 v2 based).
So it was a no-brainer to get a new one via this promo, also payed for 2 years in advance.
Re "lousy network" - nope, I'm quite happy with my old NO, OSL VPS' connectivity. Sure, even the highest speed target is shy of 500 Mb/s but all in all I see decent connectivity, e.g. cross-Atlantic about 100 Mb/s.
Also keep in mind what we're talking about here, about a cheapish (not super low end price but still about three fiddy a month is really cheap for what you get) and not brutally overcrowded VPS. If you really need or want high end connectivity there are some providers here on LET, e.g. @Hybula, who can offer that, but not for three fiddy a month.
I myself rarely need more than a couple hundred Mb/s and never thought "oh hell, if only that nice hosthatch VM had better connectivity".
That's why I got a hosthatch VPS again. I'm a happy camper and my experience with hosthatch was pretty positive.
Invoice #352501 PAID 2023-10-16 2023-10-16
Thank you for the promo.
@hosthatch Is port 25 allowed upon request? For transactional stuff and email.
No spam/junk/ads/marketing
@jsg This isn’t about their network being that bad
It’s about them removing Portlane, the most locally present network that there is, and wording it like:
”We’ve added new transits in most locations, namely CDN77/Datapacket”
If I didn’t dig deeper, I would have thought what they did was clearly an improvement, not that the result now is that routes from the most common carriers in Guthenburg and Malmo will now route through Denmark
That simply can’t be an upgrade
Had it been ”added” as they said, that’d be perfect, but it wasn’t ”added”, it was ”replacing”
I’d actually be very interested to know if CDN77 is actually even more expensive compared to Portlane, as I know Portlane bandwidth is super expensive
Also, I’m just a bit disappointed because priorly, HostHatch was a great way of getting a VPS in Sweden with a great network (Portlane + OBE) for cheap, they were perfect
Now that the local routing seems to be much worsened (unless you’re lucky and peer with OBE), it’s still cheaper compared to the big swedish providers (much cheaper) but at the cost of the network
And @Hybula isn’t relevant to me, I want great connectivity IN SWEDEN, what HostHatch used to offer, through GleSYS/Portlane
In summary: What gets to me is selling it as an upgrade when, at least for local connectivity, it clearly is not
I'm based in Stockholm, so it's close. From my home connection at Telenor it goes
Telenor->1299->CDN77 1ms
From Vultr Stockholm it goes Vultr->Obe <1ms.
Yep, as said, the issue starts to occur when you're outside of Stockholm and don't peer with Obe.
Either routes were congested or @hosthatch is optimizing them, because I just redid my tests from Oderland, previously it went through Tele2 and core-backbone, Gothenburg > Copenhagen > Stockholm, now, it's not doing that anymore, using Telenor and Arelion instead:
Personally, it does the same thing still for me, but I can be a bit forgiving that's its not as perfect as Portlane is considering it's a non-swedish provider and I'm fairly close to Copenhagen.
Not routing Gothenburg > Copenhagen > Stockholm anymore is already way better.
Yes, we already moved Oslo away from M247 quite a long while ago. Zurich and Vienna should happen soon enough.
So there's a lot to unpack here regarding the GleSYS to CDN77 switch. I will try to make it as compact as possible.
Firstly, as you already know, one of our co-founders is Swedish. Some of our biggest (non LET) clients are also from Sweden which makes a significant part of our business, and we're soon moving the company to Sweden. So we do know a thing or two about how internet works there.
Now I am going to provide details into why I think you are mistaken, but I must also clarify that Glesys network was very good and we never had any major complaints.
Yes, you have them to have a transport network so you don't need to pay for transit for that traffic. This can be both good and bad.
Swedish traffic is not complicated, it's as simple as having access to Netnod. It's not Germany with DTAG.
This is factually incorrect. They are not the best connected DC in Sweden, by far. Their network is one of the best connected networks in Sweden, but this does not translate directly into real world performance....again, that is not to say that their network has been anything less than excellent for us, but we have had issues in the 10 or so years we have been using them, as we would with any other provider.
To give you an example, Telia had capacity issues that led to all traffic to a certain region (which included India) being re-routed through the US, and that added 100ms+. This lasted for months, and there was nothing Glesys could do about it. There are more examples of this I can write, including when Nordic traffic had issues, but the point is, every network is eventually going to have similar issues. (Believe me, GSL's whole business model is based around selling transit, and they seem to be having issues at the moment)
Yes, I was fixing that route that you posted the traceroute for before I wrote the response here.
You're basing your whole opinion on a very small number of routes, that can be fixed if you simply drop us a note. I don't know who your ISP in Malmo is, so I can't get that fixed without having that information.
Completely disagree, but please feel free to give me more than two examples. If two is the standard, I can give you four where Glesys will be slightly worse....but that is not how we calculate internet performance.
If we truly believed Glesys is much better at local performane in Sweden and we're losing significant performance by not having them, we would simply add them back, it would be very inexpensive for us to do so.
It is in fact more expensive, for good reason, and by all means, an upgrade.
Our policy regarding DDoS has not changed. We do not advertise DDoS protection in any of our locations.
I tested a lot more than two routes
I posted two
Also, I think your usage of the word ”slight” is losing somewhat of its meaning when my examples basically pushed the packages to Denmark and back from major ISPs in the two largest largest cities in the country apart from Stockholm
Every single time a route was way worse in my testing, it was the CDN77/Obe route, never the Portlane route, although I agree, I didn’t test hundreds of combinations
It’s awesome that you’re able to fix it when its mentioned, maybe some more testing could have been done priorly, or, maybe that’s hard to do properly before making the switch, I have no idea
I can send a traceroute from my home ISP and other local ISPs in the area when I get home, maybe along with some additional ones (depending on when) if that helps
Let's not make it look like a bigger deal than it is though, since we are talking about ~2ms of difference here, and likely zero throughput difference. Copenhagen and Malmo are next to each other, so yes, while it looks like a big deal when you call it "a whole different country", but in reality it is not that big of a deal (1-3ms in most cases).
Sounds good, thank you
Please feel free to ticket this in.
@hosthatch yep, Malmö was meant to prove the pattern, as I said, I can take Malmö routing through Denmark. Gbg being routed that way permanently would be worse, Malmö is only a few ms as you said
I’ll see if I can take the time to get some traceroutes som across the country and ticket in in not too long
I probably overreacted somewhat because HH is the only cheap provider in Sweden with good performance, losing the good local routing (which is important to me) would cause me to have to pay 4-6 x as much probably through GleSYS, wouldn’t want that
I’m a active HH client
Uhm, I didn't refer to a statement from you.
I can understand your frustration but honestly (I happen to know a carrier's view) @hosthatch being a halfway global provider they highly likely think and plan on another scale and don't approach from an "which is the best carrier in each and every country?" angle. Plus it's not only a question of cost but also of other factors. Finally, and trust me, I certainly do not mean to belittle your country, but, uhm a country with say, 50 mio. justifies more efforts than one with 5 mio.
Going for "one of the best globally (or at the very minimum on a continent)" is a more typical approach, and it seems that hosthatch actually are ready to pay more for better connectivity. So they are certainly not ignorant dicks, quite the contrary.
But again, I wasn't referring to you.
@jsg The population isn’t that important, the important thing is the money, as in, ”what does the HH clientele want?”
As they made clear in their response, Sweden is very important for them, no matter the population, they actually made this very clear;
”Some of our biggest (non LET) clients are also from Sweden which makes a significant part of our business”
So I don’t believe that you’re correct in your assesment that the importance of their routing in any country would in any way correlate to the countries population, especially not since they spent time optimizng routes in Sweden and seem to want to continue doing so
I host several services, much like HostHatch, my most important clients are Swedish companies and induviduals, Ethiopia has over 10x the population of Sweden, but my mortgage don’t care
Well, show me a provider who openly states that any country in which he is present doesn't matter...
Which still doesn't say anything about Sweden in general. I guess every company cares about major clients. But going the extra mile for a few != for all clients.
That said, even @hosthatch having a partner/co-owner from Sweden and relocating the company to Sweden does not necessarily translate to them bending over backwards to make all customers there happy. I anyway do think though that sympathy at the top of a company can go quite some way.
That's not what I said. What I said (or at least meant) is that population ~ market size and to some degree importance usually relates to a readiness to put more (or less) effort in.
Then, pardon my being frank, you should use a provider who is strong/very well/low latency connected in Sweden. But still and anyway I'm happy to see you happy with hosthatch plus a fortunate (for you) coincidence
As far as I'm concerned though I still don't care about 10 or 20 ms more or less and I think that 95% of VPS user shouldn't either; simple reason: most (if not all) stuff LET users do with/services LET users offer on their VPS isn't very latency sensitive. I myself only run 2 or 3 latency sensitive services (plus many which are not incl. a not insignificant web site) and for those few I simply don't buy the cheapest lowend servers but more expensive ones that meet the criteria.
Btw. said web server has a latency of about 45 ms to the region where 90+% of the visitors are and I never ever had someone complain about it being slow, let alone too slow.
Whatever, the important news I extract from @hosthatch's response is that they generally (not only in Sweden) try to optimize connectivity and that based on a "oh well, 'quality' is more important than 'cheap'" basis. So, I have good reasons to be pleased about my new hosthatch promo VPS and am looking forward to see it activated.
@jsg I see your point and I would agree, but I still think that your basis for the argument is a bit far-fetch considering they're actively improving routes in Sweden, spending their time doing it, and they've confirmed that some of their largest clients are Swedish companies and so their performance here is important
Your argument would make more sense if they didn't optimize the routes and said "Oh well, not worth our time", but they're not doing that
I also don't see the point of this remark, as I said several times, I consider Portlane a GREAT network, and HH had a mix of Portlane + Obe
So what you're suggesting is exactly what I've always done
Now, it got worse (for me, as others have stated, the global connection likely improved) and HH seems to actively work on making it just as good (or better) compared to before
Either I trust them in being able to do this (they're saying that their new transit costs more, why would they pay more if their goal isn't that it's gonna be better compared to before), or, I switch providers
I'm ready to trust them and I understand that optimizing takes time, so I won't switch providers
Anyway, since HH responded to my satisfaction, I won't go on about this anymore, we're just taking about if's and maybe's now, they've already fixed the traceroute that was my worst example. It took one day. That's premium.
I'll likely grab a Stockholm deal just because.
emgh out
@emgh
Maybe I worded it clumsily or you misunderstood me but actually my post and your view largely agree (with minor differences).
Nice deal, but the upstreams changed a bit since last offer.
That's sort of the point, connectivity is much better now.
@hosthatch thanks for the offer
my feedback is their host quality is ok for local region for example Singapore to Singapore region. It is about 99% uptime - it is about 4 times cause my vps a restart in 1 node from hosthatch's end in 10 months time due to maintenance. 2 times has given notice but other 2 did not notice in time. If @hosthatch can notice before action it will be much better, however, maybe some incident beyond your control, in that case notice after action is better than not telling until my monitor report to me 
Very good provider, I have been with @hosthatch since 2019.
You're still young! :P
@hosthatch , i like your network very much , but why most of the routes from APAC to your London subnet (150.107.201.10) are through US and and even if not, it doesn’t matter because ping latency is about 200ms (from Singapore) when usual it is about 160-170ms.
You can check
https://ping.sx/ping?t=150.107.201.10 (yours London net)
vs
https://ping.sx/ping?t=178.239.171.5 (Kuroit's London net for example)
and compare latency from from your own Tokyo & Singapore origins there
@dusst not that I’m the best example of this, but send in a ticket with traceroutes and I’m sure they’ll improve it
Probably a lot of optimizations that can (and will) be done