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Dedicated Servers
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Dedicated Servers

Throughout the years I have always opted for a VPS because it was cheaper. Sometimes managed but now mostly unmanaged.

I have a few questions about low end dedicated servers:
1. What are people paying per month/year for a dedicated server and what specs? Your example would be helpful.
2. How much of an improvement will having a dedicated server be over a VPS. Roughly double or even more? Roughly 1.5x? Not much difference?
3. How much would having a dedicated server improve Time To First Byte?
4. Intel or AMD?
5. One thing that prevented me from looking into the Dedicated Market was the additional cost of a Panel like Direct-admin/CPanel. Are providers aware of this and try to include panels?

Thanked by 1harrison

Comments

  • if you're happy with your vps, then you're shopping for a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. keep your vps until you see a problem that you can't live with, and that will be the reason why you want a dedicated server.

    Thanked by 3yoursunny Saahib Zyra
  • eriseris Member

    @trycatchthis said:
    Throughout the years I have always opted for a VPS because it was cheaper. Sometimes managed but now mostly unmanaged.

    I have a few questions about low end dedicated servers:
    1. What are people paying per month/year for a dedicated server and what specs? Your example would be helpful.

    Currently paying for a AX41 and AX101 from Hetzner:
    https://www.hetzner.com/dedicated-rootserver/matrix-ax

    1. How much of an improvement will having a dedicated server be over a VPS. Roughly double or even more? Roughly 1.5x? Not much difference?

    It depends on why kind of VPS you have. It is hard to say Could be 10 times of the power or even lower... Depends on what kind of servers you want or currently have

    1. How much would having a dedicated server improve Time To First Byte?

    Nothing. Depending on hardware if you has spinnig drives vs NVME on your VPS server the VPS server might be faster...

    1. Intel or AMD?

    Preferances of you

    1. One thing that prevented me from looking into the Dedicated Market was the additional cost of a Panel like Direct-admin/CPanel. Are providers aware of this and try to include panels?

    Most times at additional costs...

    Pro

    • No noisy users and Dedicated servers are less likely to be come a issues
    • More storage available often you can pay a 10 / 20 dollar extra and get a 12 TB harddrive

    Cons

    • Single point of failure
    • Forced to arrange offsite backups
  • yoursunnyyoursunny Member, IPv6 Advocate

    @trycatchthis said:
    1. What are people paying per month/year for a dedicated server and what specs? Your example would be helpful.

    $100/month is the limit for this forum.

    1. How much of an improvement will having a dedicated server be over a VPS. Roughly double or even more? Roughly 1.5x? Not much difference?

    16x, because you get more resources and no fair use clause.

    1. How much would having a dedicated server improve Time To First Byte?

    As much as you can optimize for.
    Writing your application in eBPF (executes in the kernel called by NIC driver) or DPDK (executes in userspace via userspace NIC driver) the hard way would achieve best performance.

    1. Intel or AMD?

    EPYC.

    1. One thing that prevented me from looking into the Dedicated Market was the additional cost of a Panel like Direct-admin/CPanel. Are providers aware of this and try to include panels?

    You should do it the hard way without panels, otherwise it negates the benefits in item 3.

  • SaahibSaahib Member, Host Rep

    And there are couple of free panels those are find enough.

  • HestiaCP is a damned fine free panel and even there is even a dev here in the forum

  • TrKTrK Member

    There are already enough panels if you don't or can't work with terminal alone, btw anyone tried easypanel? seems kinda interesting!

  • @AuroraZero said:
    HestiaCP is a damned fine free panel and even there is even a dev here in the forum

    I don't mind the panel being free. But I would like it to be monetized in some way and have a non trivial user-base. Like how WordPress is free but it is monetized by wordpress.com and receives huge injections of cash every now and then.

  • @yoursunny said:

    1. How much would having a dedicated server improve Time To First Byte?

    As much as you can optimize for.
    Writing your application in eBPF (executes in the kernel called by NIC driver) or DPDK (executes in userspace via userspace NIC driver) the hard way would achieve best performance.

    OK. I love how you're responses are usually so overly complicated but I just might look into it. I am looking to optimize TTFB on some wordpress sites and a raw PHP App served by Apache.

  • vsys_hostvsys_host Member, Patron Provider

    Good afternoon!
    1) You can see examples of characteristics and prices on our website - https://vsys.host/dedicated-servers-netherlands
    2) It all depends on the characteristics of the VPS and the dedicated server. A dedicated server can be better than a VPS, or worse. You need to compare characteristics (CPU, RAM, disk, port, etc.)
    3) It depends on the characteristics of the server, if they are better than those of the VPS, then it will improve
    4) With the same parameters (frequency, number of cores), there is no difference, Intel or AMD, so you can choose whichever is cheaper.
    5) The license of the сPanel for dedicated server is more expensive than for the VPS, but if you don’t need it and you don’t have a panel, then you can’t buy it.

  • @trycatchthis said:

    @yoursunny said:

    1. How much would having a dedicated server improve Time To First Byte?

    As much as you can optimize for.
    Writing your application in eBPF (executes in the kernel called by NIC driver) or DPDK (executes in userspace via userspace NIC driver) the hard way would achieve best performance.

    OK. I love how you're responses are usually so overly complicated but I just might look into it. I am looking to optimize TTFB on some wordpress sites and a raw PHP App served by Apache.

    Perhaps stop using Wordpress. Use static sites instead. I have in my entire 20+ years of web engineering career have never touched Wordpress and I never will. I absolutely hate this junk with a passion unknown to mankind.

    Thanked by 1yoursunny
    1. What are people paying per month/year for a dedicated server and what specs? Your example would be helpful.

    I pay 2x 5.99/mo for KS-1 and 18.99/mo for KS-LE-1

    1. How much of an improvement will having a dedicated server be over a VPS. Roughly double or even more? Roughly 1.5x? Not much difference?

    Every resource on the system belongs to you. There is no X * comparison here. Even the proposed 16x is just a number that's made up.

    1. How much would having a dedicated server improve Time To First Byte?

    TTFB is not dependent on dedicated vs. VPS. You maybe under a misapprehension.

    1. Intel or AMD?

    AMD Epyc servers usually perform better at a cheaper cost.

    1. One thing that prevented me from looking into the Dedicated Market was the additional cost of a Panel like Direct-admin/CPanel. Are providers aware of this and try to include panels?

    You don't need any panels. Invest into learning Proxmox VE and learn to manage your servers through the command line.

    Panels are insecure, prone to being hacked, open many new attack vectors. Plus, you'll feel a lot better about yourself after learning the nitty gritty manually.

    There is no substitute for actually having the knowledge. Slowly try to cut your dependence on panels.

  • @eris said:

    • Single point of failure
    • Forced to arrange offsite backups

    But choosing VPS results in the same cons.. ?

  • trycatchthistrycatchthis Member
    edited January 20

    @stoned said: Perhaps stop using Wordpress

    There's not a chance I will stop doing that any time soon. Saves a lot of time. Your use case is clearly different but the majority will continue to use WordPress for small to medium sites.

    @stoned said:
    There is no substitute for actually having the knowledge. Slowly try to cut your dependence on panels.

    Clients cant be expected to use the command line. And even then its sometimes easier to use the panel even if you know how to use the cli.

    @stoned said:

    KS-1 and KS-LE-1 must google those.

  • @trycatchthis said: Clients cant be expected to use the command line. And even then its sometimes easier to use the panel even if you know how to use the cli.

    Oh I thought it was for yourself. Nevermind then.

    @trycatchthis said: There's not a chance I will stop doing that any time soon. Saves a lot of time. Your use case is clearly different but the majority will continue to use WordPress for small to medium sites.

    Yeah, sure. Was a suggestion anyway, if it was possible. If not, no big deal. WP is fine for a lot of people.

    @trycatchthis said: KS-1 and KS-LE-1 must google those.

    Kimsufi cheap low end old servers.

  • eriseris Member

    @harrison said:

    @eris said:

    • Single point of failure
    • Forced to arrange offsite backups

    But choosing VPS results in the same cons.. ?

    Instead of 1 Dedicated it is often easier to get 2 / 3 VPS servers

    Thanked by 1harrison
  • @eris said:

    @harrison said:

    @eris said:

    • Single point of failure
    • Forced to arrange offsite backups

    But choosing VPS results in the same cons.. ?

    Instead of 1 Dedicated it is often easier to get 2 / 3 VPS servers

    https://lowendtalk.com/discussion/183775/cheap-5-mo-4-node-redundant-pve-cluster-setup-for-small-biz-personal-use-low-end-needs#latest

    Maybe you can get some ideas from here.

  • darkimmortaldarkimmortal Member
    edited January 22

    Until the turning point at around Hetzner AX41, dedicated servers win at latency (not referring to network) and consistency per $. Above that spec level, they win in all areas

    You might be able to serve more traffic on a cheap VPS due to the sheer brute force of modern cores, but the time to first byte is not as good, especially on the first request after a period of idle time. The dedi would have to be significantly slower to outweigh the latency cost of thrashed caches and scheduling against neighbours on a VPS, not to mention shared IO

    One of these days someone will write a latency benchmark as popular as YABS, although I'm sure that won't go down well with VPS providers lol. They like to keep up the illusion that higher throughput benchmarks (YABS) = better, even though that has little impact on the real world performance of a near-idling server

  • @darkimmortal said:
    Until the turning point at around Hetzner AX41, dedicated servers win at latency (not referring to network) and consistency per $.
    Above that spec level, they win in all areas

    If I understand you correctly, you are saying that anything above a Hetzner AX41 which is a AMD Ryzen™ 5 3600 with 64GB DDR4 RAM and 512 NVMe should beat almost any VPS in TTFB. And below this spec maybe the VPS could win in certain cases.

    You might be able to serve more traffic on a cheap VPS due to the sheer brute force of modern cores, but the time to first byte is not as good, especially on the first request after a period of idle time. The dedi would have to be significantly slower to outweigh the latency cost of thrashed caches and scheduling against neighbours on a VPS, not to mention shared IO

    Ok do you have any numbers?

    One of these days someone will write a latency benchmark as popular as YABS, although I'm sure that won't go down well with VPS providers lol. They like to keep up the illusion that higher throughput benchmarks (YABS) = better, even though that has little impact on the real world performance of a near-idling server

    Ok.

  • darkimmortaldarkimmortal Member
    edited January 22

    @trycatchthis said:

    @darkimmortal said:
    Until the turning point at around Hetzner AX41, dedicated servers win at latency (not referring to network) and consistency per $.
    Above that spec level, they win in all areas

    If I understand you correctly, you are saying that anything above a Hetzner AX41 which is a AMD Ryzen™ 5 3600 with 64GB DDR4 RAM and 512 NVMe should beat almost any VPS in TTFB. And below this spec maybe the VPS could win in certain cases.

    I am saying that below AX41 the performance per $ might be better on a VPS. E.g. Netcup will beat most low-end dedis in performance/$. The downside is they are one of the worst providers for latency spikes, and even web hosting is too real-time a use case for them

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