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Currently Sending 5 Million Emails Per Day, Want To Switch Providers
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Currently Sending 5 Million Emails Per Day, Want To Switch Providers

contigocontigo Member

Over the past several years we've turned what was once a very active network of Facebook Pages into daily email newsletters. The newsletters cover industry and interest-based news for over 20 different topics, and we get a pretty good response from them (consistently 60%+ open rates, high CTR etc).

We're currently using an EMS that we pay on a per-subscriber basis, and our monthly cost is currently upward of $14,000 per month. Given the volume of emails we send, and the good engagement we get from them, we've started to wonder whether we could setup our own servers, utilize that good engagement to warm the reputation of our own IPs, and eventually migrate our sending to this setup.

We have attempted to do the same thing with SES earlier this year, but despite our best efforts we were unable to get the same kind of deliverability that we do from our current EMS. Other options from services such as Postmark and Sendgrid are able to provide the same level of performance, but they're either too expensive based on our volume, or don't support non-transactional emails.

Would really appreciate any thoughts on this, or a referral to someone who has worked in the industry who can provide paid consultation to figure out what options we have.

Thanked by 1kiosv
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Comments

  • devpdevp Member
    edited October 3

    @jar is here from MXroute ( a production grade email hosting provider ).

    Here is an offer from MXroute (@jar):

  • @devp said:
    @jar is here from MXroute ( a production grade email hosting provider ).

    Here is an offer from MXroute (@jar):

    Thanks a lot for the suggestion. Reading "Sooner or later, everyone kills a hooker" certainly woke me up more than I had been.

    If I'm reading this correctly though, there's a limit of 300 outbound emails per hour via this option, which is understandable, but unfortunately would fall way short of what we're trying to send on a daily basis.

  • yoursunnyyoursunny Member, IPv6 Advocate

    Yahoo! Groups
    Unlimited subscribers, but they append ads at the footer of each email.

  • contigocontigo Member
    edited October 3

    @yoursunny said:
    Yahoo! Groups
    Unlimited subscribers, but they append ads at the footer of each email.

    @yoursunny Didn't Yahoo! Groups shutdown 2 years ago?

  • So, sending millions of emails and without any income from that? Sus.

    Thanked by 2afn netomx
  • @LTniger said:
    So, sending millions of emails and without any income from that? Sus.

    @LTniger please. He runs a legitimate spamming operation that makes millions every minute.

    Thanked by 4yoursunny ariq01 afn pike
  • ralfralf Member

    @LTniger said:
    So, sending millions of emails and without any income from that? Sus.

    Why are you assuming they get no income from them. Hard to believe that they're spending $14000 per month on something that makes no money.

    Thanked by 1RapToN
  • @ralf said:

    @LTniger said:
    So, sending millions of emails and without any income from that? Sus.

    Why are you assuming they get no income from them. Hard to believe that they're spending $14000 per month on something that makes no money.

    So, what's the problem than? Money == any provider out here. And a simple rule: cheap provider -- shitty deliver. That's about it.

  • @LTniger said:

    @ralf said:

    @LTniger said:
    So, sending millions of emails and without any income from that? Sus.

    Why are you assuming they get no income from them. Hard to believe that they're spending $14000 per month on something that makes no money.

    So, what's the problem than? Money == any provider out here. And a simple rule: cheap provider -- shitty deliver. That's about it.

    I'm sure OP isn't just talking about not having money but more specifically trying to reduce their cost of operations. Their thought process is that now that they have a certain level of volume, maybe they can reduce their operating costs by starting to move their demands to their own IP infrastructure or something (since they're at that inflection point where it makes sense).

    That's how you make money... You don't just spend it because you have it. Maybe they can then use that money to spend on additional staff or something else.

    Thanked by 3iKeyZ mrTom Swiftnode
  • Related to OP's problem. I'd suggest reaching out to maybe Jarland or a few others here in the mail business. Maybe you can hire them on at a specialized consulting rate where they can help implement something for you.

  • jarjar Member, Patron Provider

    My thought is that if SES won't give you the desired result, you're going to have a hell of a time warning up your own IPs to achieve anything close. You're starting out with the conclusion that Amazon can't pull off what you need to, that's a pretty big thing.

    If we're truly talking a double opt in mailing list with a low bounce rate, I feel like you need at bare minimum a /24 but I'd quickly expand that upward. If you're spending that much money on it, it's not even remotely unreasonable to approach your RIR and get your own IP space.

    If we're still taking about a double opt in list with a low bounce rate I might be so inclined to consider renting you IP space with a working ZoneMTA setup. I wouldn't be nearly as cheap as someone around here renting out IP and server space though because I keep my space so squeaky clean it deserves a red carpet to be introduced. I'm not cocky, I work my ass off to be able to say that.

    Thanked by 3RapToN Kris nessa
  • cazrzcazrz Member

    Try spamwall
    https://www.spamwall.com/outbound_filtering.html

    I use saferoute and mailchannels to send millions.

  • ChuckChuck Member

    I would accept $14,000 monthly donation. At least I could help to keep junk email out of someone box.

    Thanked by 1gzz
  • @LTniger said:
    So, sending millions of emails and without any income from that? Sus.

    Not sure where you got that from, thankfully we have very healthy revenue from these sends, thus the ability to outlay $14,000 in sending. But as it is in business, if you're able to achieve the same solution or better more cost effectively, it's worth putting in the effort to test feasibility.

    Thanked by 1iKeyZ
  • @jar said:
    My thought is that if SES won't give you the desired result, you're going to have a hell of a time warning up your own IPs to achieve anything close. You're starting out with the conclusion that Amazon can't pull off what you need to, that's a pretty big thing.

    Split testing between our current setup, SES and Postmark, across the usual top recipients (GMail, Yahoo/AOL, MS), and keeping the same authenticated domain setup for each, there's a noticeable drop in open rate when using SES.

    If we're truly talking a double opt in mailing list with a low bounce rate, I feel like you need at bare minimum a /24 but I'd quickly expand that upward. If you're spending that much money on it, it's not even remotely unreasonable to approach your RIR and get your own IP space.

    If we're still taking about a double opt in list with a low bounce rate I might be so inclined to consider renting you IP space with a working ZoneMTA setup. I wouldn't be nearly as cheap as someone around here renting out IP and server space though because I keep my space so squeaky clean it deserves a red carpet to be introduced. I'm not cocky, I work my ass off to be able to say that.

    If what you're offering is capable of matching the deliverability of our existing solution, I'm certainly interested in having a discussion. Many of our newsletters go out on a daily basis, non-engagers culled regularly, so any bounces that do creep in are soft and sub 0.1% of sends.

  • tjntjn Member

    I've been using Postmark for a while and it's been a great experience so far.
    When we had a customer that needed to push a few million emails a month, I got in touch with them directly and was able to get pretty good pricing - I'm assuming you've tried reaching out to their sales team?

  • @tjn said:
    I've been using Postmark for a while and it's been a great experience so far.
    When we had a customer that needed to push a few million emails a month, I got in touch with them directly and was able to get pretty good pricing - I'm assuming you've tried reaching out to their sales team?

    I spoke with someone via customer support and was given a blunt "We only support transactional emails", which surprised me at the time because I read an article on their site that seemed to launch their new acceptance of promotional emails.

    Will reach out to them about it now I know it's possible though. Thanks a lot for that.

    Thanked by 1tjn
  • KrisKris Member

    From the IPs I've had to block lately, just hit up ServerMania / B2 Net Solutions (dba ColoCrossing clone right across the falls) and they'll be glad to host whatever shit you want.

    I've blanket blocked both of their ASN's after on-going attacks after a large scale customer across no less than 12 of their subnets. Newbies stuffing anti-combo block list while I slap the shit out of their ASNs and just drop all traffic now.

    People who use VPNs on CC network are advised to find a less nefarious operation.

    I remember working for Hudson Valley Host before Ernie fell behind on bills and Biloh told me to name my price to take over, and I wouldn't touch that mess with a 10 ft. pole due to requesting a/26 and seeing (7) x /24's registered to HVH and quickly SWIP'd out when I mentioned it.

    Now I block their ASNs from corporate networks which are very large app providers.

    Oh well, I hope karma finds them someday.

    Thanked by 1AndrewL64
  • @Kris said:
    From the IPs I've had to block lately, just hit up ServerMania / B2 Net Solutions (dba ColoCrossing clone right across the falls) and they'll be glad to host whatever shit you want.

    Just to reiterate; we aren't spamming people. The emails we send are to opt-in subscribers, on lists that have been built and maintained for years.

  • You can get a server from OVH and order a /24 subnet. Install PowerMTA and start warming-up IPs. If your domain have a good reputation(Can check from Google Postmaster) it would be not much difficult for you to warm-up new IPs.

    Thanked by 1lanefu
  • MikePTMikePT Moderator, Patron Provider

    @contigo said: Would really appreciate any thoughts on this, or a referral to someone who has worked in the industry who can provide paid consultation to figure out what options we have.

    I do have a very good track record there. Feel free to PM me to discuss.

  • @contigo said: we aren't spamming people

    This is something to decide for your recipients. What's your spam score %? From 100 000 sent email how many emails marked as spam? AWS SES should indicate this percentage.

  • KrisKris Member

    @contigo said: Just to reiterate; we aren't spamming people. The emails we send are to opt-in subscribers, on lists that have been built and maintained for years.

    Didn't imply such. I'm just saying from the traffic I've seen from B2 Net Solutions dba ServerMania the last few months, you'd be their most legitimate customer.

  • BilohBucksBilohBucks Member
    edited October 4

    They are sending spam messages such as "You won X" "Your package is waiting for confirmation" and many many more.

    X - put there anything you want

  • gzzgzz Member

    @Kris said:

    @contigo said: Just to reiterate; we aren't spamming people. The emails we send are to opt-in subscribers, on lists that have been built and maintained for years.

    Didn't imply such. I'm just saying from the traffic I've seen from B2 Net Solutions dba ServerMania the last few months, you'd be their most legitimate customer.

    Lmao half the time my websites get DDoSed it’s from ColoCrossing // b2 net crap since they rent out large chunks of their IPs to shitty proxy providers. I also block them

  • angstromangstrom Moderator

    The OP does say/admit that they send (and want to continue to send) promotional (i.e., non-transactional) emails as well, so no big mystery here

    Thanked by 1tjn
  • @LTniger said:

    @contigo said: we aren't spamming people

    This is something to decide for your recipients. What's your spam score %? From 100 000 sent email how many emails marked as spam? AWS SES should indicate this percentage.

    Well our recipients opt-in to our newsletters, and have the ability to opt-out at any time. So you're right, it's their decision, and over the course of the past x years doing this, we've not received any compliance complaint or similar from these ESPs or service providers we've worked with.

    @angstrom said:
    The OP does say/admit that they send (and want to continue to send) promotional (i.e., non-transactional) emails as well, so no big mystery here

    We absolutely do. In addition to opted-in newsletters, we send opted-in ecommerce recommendations too. Sadly it seems some people here equate unsolicited spamming of "You've just won X" to permission-based, for-profit emailing.

  • raindog308raindog308 Administrator

    @LTniger said: This is something to decide for your recipients

    You seem to believe it's impossible that someone could legitimately send 5m emails a month.

    Why?

    There are entire businesses these days that are based on sending email newsletters. SubStack, Dracula Daily, etc. OP wants do the same and is willing to do more work to keep more profits.

  • tsofttsoft Member
    edited October 6

    I finally wrote own server on Golang, currently, beta testing it.
    Reproduced the functionality of ESP. It is very hard but you get raw low level access to mails.

    But your price is great, 9$ for 100k is an insane price.

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