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I won my PayPal case against ShardHost
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I won my PayPal case against ShardHost

Just thought that some of you might be interested to hear that today, PayPal ruled in my favour against ShardHost for non-delivery of services. I was refunded the full amount of the plan (£7.68) after ShardHost failed to respond to the dispute and PP were able to reclaim my funds.

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Comments

  • Congrats, i guess?

  • @iSidle said:
    Congrats, i guess?

    It's more from the perspective that there's always been a lot of discussion on these forums over the years that consumers don't win these sorts of cases against providers.

  • @Nekki said: Just thought that some of you might be interested to hear that today, PayPal ruled in my favour against ShardHost for non-delivery of services. I was refunded the full amount of the plan (£7.68) after ShardHost failed to respond to the dispute and PP were able to reclaim my funds.

    +1. Yeah, same here for 2 separate VMs and invoices :)

  • iSidleiSidle Member
    edited December 2013

    @Nekki said:

    >

    Yeah, that's true well, no experience with that here though. I only had 1 VPS yet, at prometeus overzold and it's currently doing fine for me.

  • jarjar Patron Provider, Top Host, Veteran
    edited December 2013

    failed to respond

    You didn't win in any noteworthy way, they forfeit

  • how long ago did you make the payment?

  • Congrats on your chargeback, does ShardHost even contact you?

  • @jarland said:
    You didn't win in any noteworthy way, they forfeit

    Didn't realise that was how disputes were settled. Though PP did a little more legwork than that.

    @DeanClinton said:
    how long ago did you make the payment?

    October 10.

    @Andy said:
    Congrats on your chargeback, does ShardHost even contact you?

    They never responded to any contact, either directly or via PayPal.

  • Pretty sure that if he replied 'Virtual Services' you'd of lost.

  • @eastonch said:
    Pretty sure that if he replied 'Virtual Services' you'd of lost.

    Agreed.

  • jarjar Patron Provider, Top Host, Veteran

    Yeah, I mean it's good they forfeit. Obviously you deserve money back for service not rendered.

  • LeeLee Veteran

    @jarland said:
    You didn't win in any noteworthy way, they forfeit

    This, it was a default win due to them not responding, but having said that, a win is a win and it's good people are getting refunds given the way they dropped off.

  • @eastonch said:
    Pretty sure that if he replied 'Virtual Services' you'd of lost.

    That does seem to be the general opinion. Guess the question is why they didn't do so - maybe the legal action preventing them from doing so? There were obviously funds in the account for PP to reclaim them.

  • LoL... they took a shard... LoL

  • Unfortunately (and this is a big issue for us); PayPal will always side with you, if you are a verified account and have disputed the payment within the allowed time (six months, yes, 180 days; even after you've already used the service...)

    As it is an "intangible service" (hosting, VPS, dedicated, etc); PayPal will not side with the provider, even if we have your acceptance of our Terms of Service, your customer information, your IP logs of registration and ordering, the invoice and product details... all of it.

    Over 30% of our overhead goes to consumers pulling this crap on us, using their server for a month then filing a paypal dispute. A real payment gateway such as Authorize.net, 2Checkout, or one with your bank will always at least listen to what you have to say, but PayPal will have none of it. And if the client does (by some off chance) lose the dispute, they can just take up the dispute with their Credit Card company, in which case you auto-lose that dispute.

    I am not surprised whatsoever that you won your case.

  • @HardCloud - my understanding is the provider/seller of an intangible item will always win the dispute via paypal. I infact got hit by one from a small time spammer that I turned off his server after two warning. Just sent a copy of my TOS and told them that they spammed etc and they closed the dispute within 5 minutes in my favor.

  • I wont also mine. Since shardhost did not response, pp sided with buyer.

  • @HardCloud "A real payment gateway such as Authorize.net, 2Checkout, or one with your bank will always at least listen to what you have to say"

    2Checkout isn't what I'd call a "real" payment gateway (although it does rank above something like Payza). The percentage of 2Checkout merchants with horror stories is even higher than the percentage of PayPal merchants who have complaints.

    @HardCloud "Over 30% of our overhead goes to consumers pulling this crap on us,"

    I'd figure out a way to lower that 30% rate quickly because if you don't you run the risk of PayPal limiting, or closing, your account.

    @HardCloud "they can just take up the dispute with their Credit Card company, in which case you auto-lose that dispute."

    If a PayPal buyer files a chargeback through their credit card company you can still dispute it and win. Google "how to fight a chargeback" etc for tips on how to successfully fight a fraudulent chargeback.

    @AutoSnipe "my understanding is the provider/seller of an intangible item will always win the dispute via paypal"

    The flip side of that is sellers of tangible goods stand a good chance of getting screwed when a PayPal dispute is filed. There are entire forums devoted to "how to get free merchandise from sellers by exploiting PayPal's loopholes"

  • @DomainBop said:

    Unfortunately, PayPal does not offer any Seller's Protection if the item cannot be tracked, and shipped to the shipping address on-file in the transaction details of the payment account. I can quote numerous ticket responses and failed cases where this is the only answer I have received.

    On top of this, any payment whatsoever is protected by Buyer's Protection as long as your account is in good standing, verified, has a backup funding source, and a few other very quick and easy things.

    There are numerous sites that exist only to screw over service providers and those that accept PayPal, as you have too noted; and we have been the victim of a few of these rather recently.

    --

    Even on the phone with PayPal, their excuse is always that we cannot be helped, and that we should considering an alternative source of payment acceptance for virtual goods... and that's after having an account without a single case with them for over ten years selling only physical goods.

  • jarjar Patron Provider, Top Host, Veteran
    edited December 2013

    Log their IP address logins. Prove without a doubt that the person who signed up is the person who they claimed to be. If they use a fake identity and a bunch of VPNs, that's one thing, but if they use a residential IP that traces to their home town....big improvement. Even better, if you contact that person and they e-mail you back from the same IP they signed up with claiming it wasn't them. This is pretty much always true in my experience. Kids aren't always as bright as they think they are.

  • @Zen said:

    And yet up here in Canada, PayPal here does the EXACT OPOSITE, and treats you like crap the entire time; even if you've been an upstanding member of their service for almost a decade.

    Thanks for the heads up, will be re-reading the policies on PayPal's US site and see if I can't get a hearing out of that.

  • how can they refund in 45 days when shardhost dissolved? is it they hold the fund for 45 days and dont release to host?

  • MaouniqueMaounique Host Rep, Veteran

    They might have frozen the account before for some reason maybe too many disputes or something.

  • netomxnetomx Moderator, Veteran

    @Maounique said:
    They might have frozen the account before for some reason maybe too many disputes or something.

    or retriefe from their CCs?

  • no way to dispute transaction older than 45 days right?

  • MaouniqueMaounique Host Rep, Veteran

    @netomx said:
    or retriefe from their CCs?

    Unlikely they had still non-cancelled cards in this situation, if they did, well, facepalm...

  • MaouniqueMaounique Host Rep, Veteran

    @jcaleb said:
    no way to dispute transaction older than 45 days right?

    In theory, but it cant hurt to ask them.

    Thanked by 1jcaleb
  • It's unfortunate that we can't have "fair" customers and "fair" providers and I can relate to both sides, customers aren't interested in sparing a penny for shoddy services and providers can't be expected to take losses on a whim.

    'Virtual Services'

    I'd argue that VPS is the leasing of hardware and is not truly intangible, like software would be.

  • could i issue the paypal dispute as it's already over 45 days after i purchased?

  • @jcaleb said:
    no way to dispute transaction older than 45 days right?

    Try calling or sending an email. Mine was over 45 days and I called PayPal, told them to at least block/freeze the other party account since this affect a lot of people. PayPal explained that intangible items or service are not covered in buyer protection, but they do encourage reporting such a negative seller behavior. My $9.58 to ShardHost was not refunded, but PayPal add a free $10 to my balance.

    Thanked by 1jcaleb
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