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Is latency and server location a mystery or real concern?
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Is latency and server location a mystery or real concern?

Seems to me, for web hosting, trans ocean transmission does not matter much. Although noticeable, but not critically affecting the web surfing experience.

For online gaming, you want as short latency as possible, for sure, you can see the significant difference in your gaming results.

Thanked by 1jugganuts
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Comments

  • NeoonNeoon Community Contributor, Veteran
    edited July 2022

    Yes, hence I do operate a global route bending network.
    This does enable me low latency, even to the end of this dam planet, except Australia.

    https://blyatconnect.ru/network

    10/10 best network, would route my packages anytime.
    My personal favorite, playing on Japanese Gameservers with 160ms from Europe.

  • Front running is a huge concern

  • szarkaszarka Member
    edited July 2022

    It depends. For fairly lightweight web sites that are well-designed and don't block on requests for additional media, scripts, etc., it's not that noticeable. But latency also affects performance for large file transfers, since the TCP window can fill up while the sender is waiting for the receiver's ACKs, and will be scaled up less quickly. If you serve those heavy files via a CDN, then that might be a good compromise.

    Thanked by 1letlover
  • szarkaszarka Member

    Finally, a provider that supports morse code!

  • NeoonNeoon Community Contributor, Veteran
    edited July 2022

    @szarka said:

    Finally, a provider that supports morse code!

    Yes! We even maybe adding support for smoke signs.

  • @johnnyquestion said:
    Front running is a huge concern

    what is Front running

  • @letlover said:

    @johnnyquestion said:
    Front running is a huge concern

    what is Front running

    When someone steals information and then takes a shorter route to get to the destination first.

  • @johnnyquestion said:

    @letlover said:

    @johnnyquestion said:
    Front running is a huge concern

    what is Front running

    When someone steals information and then takes a shorter route to get to the destination first.

    hijacking?

  • szarkaszarka Member

    @johnnyquestion said:
    Front running is a huge concern

    If you have the kind of workload where that's an issue, you can afford to optimize your servers' locations and wouldn't be asking this question. 🤷

    Thanked by 1letlover
  • bdlbdl Member

    @letlover said:
    Seems to me, for web hosting, trans ocean transmission does not matter much. Although noticeable, but not critically affecting the web surfing experience.

    For online gaming, you want as short latency as possible, for sure, you can see the significant difference in your gaming results.

    STBO

    Thanked by 1letlover
  • NeoonNeoon Community Contributor, Veteran
    edited July 2022

    Speaking of which, I reconfigured my optimizer network yesterday.
    I forgot to turn on the optimizer.

    Result after turning it on.

    If someone asks how this is possible, well, the default option is off.

    Thanked by 1letlover
  • @letlover said:

    @johnnyquestion said:

    @letlover said:

    @johnnyquestion said:
    Front running is a huge concern

    what is Front running

    When someone steals information and then takes a shorter route to get to the destination first.

    hijacking?

    High frequency trading

    Thanked by 1letlover
  • sotssots Member

    It doesn't matter if you use global CDN such as CF to host websites.
    But it really matters when you're choosing game server or VPN server.

  • AXYZEAXYZE Member
    edited July 2022

    @sots said:
    It doesn't matter if you use global CDN such as CF to host websites.
    But it really matters when you're choosing game server or VPN server.

    It still matters with CDN, dynamic content is requested from origin, routing to origin doesnt need to be direct and routing can be mess, especially on Free Plan.

    TerraHost Norway fastest CF route is Amsterdam with 51ms. If your visitors are from Norway then enjoy 100ms+ ping on CF, CDN actually slows down your website here. If you host in AMS then it will have lower latency to Norway than hosting in Norway if you use CF. Without CF theres no such routing problem.

    Same (or worse) story with Asia -> Asia. On free plan it will get routed to LA pretty much always, causing even bigger difference in latencies. It is actually faster to have server in LA than in Asia if you want to serve Asia clients.
    Location matters always.

  • AXYZEAXYZE Member

    @letlover said:
    Seems to me, for web hosting, trans ocean transmission does not matter much. Although noticeable, but not critically affecting the web surfing experience.

    For online gaming, you want as short latency as possible, for sure, you can see the significant difference in your gaming results.

    It is important always, international routing can be mess, pipes can be really slow (like 5-10Mbps slow) or it can drop many packets.

    Provider says "1G port", but if you want to route this traffic to other continent then good luck with low end providers. Ive personally saw 5Mbps with like 500km distance, route was that bad. Good luck hosting any video on such pipe :p

    Thanked by 1letlover
  • imgmoneyimgmoney Member
    edited July 2022

    Latency matters, if the end-user or your purpose is one of these

    1) CDN for small files
    2) Gaming

    Maybe more.

    Thanked by 1letlover
  • Latency isn't as much of an issue as is traffic congestion. As you try to transfer data across greater distances, the chance you'll hit a router that's congested increases significantly. So yes, I think server location matters but realistically, as long as you're on the same continent as your users it shouldn't matter much more than that.

    Thanked by 1letlover
  • aiden1aiden1 Member

    @AXYZE said: TerraHost Norway fastest CF route is Amsterdam with 51ms. If your visitors are from Norway then enjoy 100ms+ ping on CF, CDN actually slows down your website here. If you host in AMS then it will have lower latency to Norway than hosting in Norway if you use CF. Without CF theres no such routing problem.

    What? CF has Oslo

  • NeoonNeoon Community Contributor, Veteran

    @aiden1 said:

    @AXYZE said: TerraHost Norway fastest CF route is Amsterdam with 51ms. If your visitors are from Norway then enjoy 100ms+ ping on CF, CDN actually slows down your website here. If you host in AMS then it will have lower latency to Norway than hosting in Norway if you use CF. Without CF theres no such routing problem.

    What? CF has Oslo

    Yes, however on a free account, you may get worse routes or not always the best locations. If you pay them, you get the best that they can give to you.

    Thanked by 2letlover AXYZE
  • AXYZEAXYZE Member

    @aiden1 said:

    @AXYZE said: TerraHost Norway fastest CF route is Amsterdam with 51ms. If your visitors are from Norway then enjoy 100ms+ ping on CF, CDN actually slows down your website here. If you host in AMS then it will have lower latency to Norway than hosting in Norway if you use CF. Without CF theres no such routing problem.

    What? CF has Oslo

    They also have Warsaw, but 99%+ of traffic Warsaw-Warsaw is routed through Budapest. It changes in Business plan.

    Cloudflare is free, because it is not the same product as paid one, they give you unused, cheap links that they need anyway to absorb DDoS attacks for big clients.

    Thanked by 2letlover foitin
  • 0xbkt0xbkt Member
    edited July 2022

    You can actually use so-called premium PoPs if you can afford to use Workers to proxy traffic. Once you have a route set-up, any Cloudflare IP you put in the A record works without enabling the orange. Just steal one from a website you think enjoys a higher tier Cloudflare plan. It once worked with 1.1.1.1 as well but AFAICR that IP was blacklisted and many sites using that hack were broken. Even works with the IPs of BYOIP customers of Cloudflare, e.g., http://192.0.54.10 from AS62659.

  • @Neoon said:

    @aiden1 said:

    @AXYZE said: TerraHost Norway fastest CF route is Amsterdam with 51ms. If your visitors are from Norway then enjoy 100ms+ ping on CF, CDN actually slows down your website here. If you host in AMS then it will have lower latency to Norway than hosting in Norway if you use CF. Without CF theres no such routing problem.

    What? CF has Oslo

    Yes, however on a free account, you may get worse routes or not always the best locations. If you pay them, you get the best that they can give to you.

    There is no free lunch.

  • AXYZEAXYZE Member

    @0xbkt said:
    You can actually use so-called premium PoPs if you can afford to use Workers to proxy traffic. Once you have a route set-up, any Cloudflare IP you put in the A record works without enabling the orange. Just steal one from a website you think enjoys a higher tier Cloudflare plan. It once worked with 1.1.1.1 as well but AFAICR that IP was blacklisted and many sites using that hack were broken. Even works with the IPs of BYOIP customers of Cloudflare, e.g., http://192.0.54.10 from AS62659.

    Holy shit, now that's a crazy idea

    So setup fake A record and make worker that proxies 100% of traffic to your IP instead of that in A record?

  • seems the free lunch can have caviar by some trick.

  • @0xbkt said:
    You can actually use so-called premium PoPs if you can afford to use Workers to proxy traffic. Once you have a route set-up, any Cloudflare IP you put in the A record works without enabling the orange. Just steal one from a website you think enjoys a higher tier Cloudflare plan. It once worked with 1.1.1.1 as well but AFAICR that IP was blacklisted and many sites using that hack were broken. Even works with the IPs of BYOIP customers of Cloudflare, e.g., http://192.0.54.10 from AS62659.

    Thanks for pointing this out!

  • sotssots Member

    @AXYZE said:

    @sots said:
    It doesn't matter if you use global CDN such as CF to host websites.
    But it really matters when you're choosing game server or VPN server.

    It still matters with CDN, dynamic content is requested from origin, routing to origin doesnt need to be direct and routing can be mess, especially on Free Plan.

    TerraHost Norway fastest CF route is Amsterdam with 51ms. If your visitors are from Norway then enjoy 100ms+ ping on CF, CDN actually slows down your website here. If you host in AMS then it will have lower latency to Norway than hosting in Norway if you use CF. Without CF theres no such routing problem.

    Same (or worse) story with Asia -> Asia. On free plan it will get routed to LA pretty much always, causing even bigger difference in latencies. It is actually faster to have server in LA than in Asia if you want to serve Asia clients.
    Location matters always.

    Oh, yes. We don't want to use Cloudflare with Asian servers because of the terrible routing. But sometimes we also need DDoS protection, so we have to.

  • I used to be paranoid about latency but I think that as long as it's below 250ms it's not too noticeable IMO.

    @Neoon said:
    Yes, hence I do operate a global route bending network.
    This does enable me low latency, even to the end of this dam planet, except Australia.

    https://blyatconnect.ru/network

    10/10 best network, would route my packages anytime.
    My personal favorite, playing on Japanese Gameservers with 160ms from Europe.

    Gotta love that network 😂

  • What is 楠格 on CloudFlare, some Asian route?

  • letloverletlover Member
    edited July 2022

    @sots said:

    @AXYZE said:

    @sots said:
    It doesn't matter if you use global CDN such as CF to host websites.
    But it really matters when you're choosing game server or VPN server.

    It still matters with CDN, dynamic content is requested from origin, routing to origin doesnt need to be direct and routing can be mess, especially on Free Plan.

    TerraHost Norway fastest CF route is Amsterdam with 51ms. If your visitors are from Norway then enjoy 100ms+ ping on CF, CDN actually slows down your website here. If you host in AMS then it will have lower latency to Norway than hosting in Norway if you use CF. Without CF theres no such routing problem.

    Same (or worse) story with Asia -> Asia. On free plan it will get routed to LA pretty much always, causing even bigger difference in latencies. It is actually faster to have server in LA than in Asia if you want to serve Asia clients.
    Location matters always.

    Oh, yes. We don't want to use Cloudflare with Asian servers because of the terrible routing. But sometimes we also need DDoS protection, so we have to.

    From EU to US is about 250 to 300 ms, as the ping is about 250-300 on the NA gaming server using my EU VPN server. Correct me if I am wrong.

  • @letlover said: From EU to US is about 250 to 300 ms

    Almost all EU locations to East Coast are below 100ms.
    Frankfurt to NY - 79ms
    64 bytes from 185.59.223.8: icmp_seq=1 ttl=59 time=79.9 ms
    64 bytes from 185.59.223.8: icmp_seq=2 ttl=59 time=79.9 ms

    EU to West Coast will be around 150ms.
    London to LA:
    64 bytes from 185.152.67.2: icmp_seq=1 ttl=58 time=147 ms
    64 bytes from 185.152.67.2: icmp_seq=2 ttl=58 time=147 ms

    250 to 300 would be EU to JP/AU/NZ.

    Thanked by 1letlover
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