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Massive Layer7 attack, more than 33 hours - Page 3
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Massive Layer7 attack, more than 33 hours

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Comments

  • @FlorinMarian said: someone from LET, after seeing that I blocked the external attacks, started to attack only with IPs from Romania

    @DP advised you something as far as I remember.

  • risharderisharde Patron Provider, Veteran
    edited June 2022

    Curious here, how many ips are you being attacked from? Just wondering why iptable lists causes such a cpu spike. Amazing to know computers can still be controlled in the masses like this with all the fancy av products out there but maybe there is a need for a better Linux av product (I did make some assumptions here, no need to truly lecture me here, just too tired to type out all scenarios and focusing on perhaps exploits/rootkits)

    Thanked by 1HostSlick
  • HostSlickHostSlick Member, Patron Provider
    edited June 2022

    @DP said:

    @DP said:

    @FlorinMarian said: 45.134.225.36

    @HostSlick's IP is on the naughty list.

    inetnum:        45.134.225.0 - 45.134.225.255
    netname:        HostSlick-IP-Range
    descr:          HostSlick Dedicated Servers
    

    Another one that belongs to @HostSlick.

    @FlorinMarian said: 193.142.146.213

    This two IPV4 belong to two dedicated servers. The customer in question seems to be running Tor Exit Nodes.

    I just talked with him and he will investigate and make sure the problem will be solved!

    Thanked by 1Xrmaddness
  • @risharde said:
    Curious here, how many ips are you being attacked from? Just wondering why iptable lists causes such a cpu spike. Amazing to know computers can still be controlled in the masses like this with all the fancy av products out there but maybe there is a need for a better Linux av product (I did make some assumptions here, no need to truly lecture me here, just too tired to type out all scenarios and focusing on perhaps exploits/rootkits)

    There's also proxies etc. and don't forget compromised routers and/or smart/iot devices. Antivirus wouldn't help with computers/servers if people are installing pirated/nulled software or running untrustworthy scripts anyway. But I would think it's mostly the routers/iot devices that have some known vulnerability and all of a sudden there's hundreds of thousands or even millions of new devices added to a botnet thanks to a single vulnerability.

    Thanked by 1risharde
  • https://github.com/dbContext/SiteShield-OpenResty

    Disclaimer: I created it, but it's an open source LUA module built upon OpenResty (Nginx Fork) that challenges all requests via a JS challenge (that can be invisible) but can't as easily be manipulated / bypassed as it stores the "cookie" server side via redis instead of allowing the client to set a cookie.

  • ralfralf Member

    This ipset and iptables --match-set combo looks much better than a long list of rules. I'll have to try this out!

  • desperanddesperand Member
    edited June 2022

    @risharde said: Just wondering why iptable lists causes such a cpu spike.

    This is old known issue for iptables. That's why exists ipset.
    Good article can be found here: https://kinvolk.io/blog/2020/09/performance-benchmark-analysis-of-egress-filtering-on-linux/

    To be honest, there are also different queue mechanisms in kernel, but about such things there are more educated guys than me which can tell more and better.

    In short:

    • switching queue mechanism in linux
      • few settings related to syn-cookies, and latest tcp changes since 3.16 kernel (check network). Also i did not tracked since maybe pre v5 kernels. But i've seen several massive upgrades to tcp, which dramatically boost performance, and such settings must be manually activated in sysctl.conf for extremely high performance.
    • using algorithmic log^0 (just an example, not correct one) mechanisms for managing massive lists of hosts that must be blocked like ipset
    • adding extra rate limites & caches
    • using crowdsec like things

    All of that can dramatically help to tank volumetric attacks on not bad dedi server.

    Just wondering why iptable lists causes such a cpu spike. Amazing to know computers can still be controlled in the masses like this with all the fancy av products out there but maybe there is a need for a better Linux av product

    This is not about linux hosts.
    This is about cameras & routers.

    Vendors after selling them - does not care about their responsibility for selling extra bots in 1 year. Why I think so? I rarely seen a router or IP camera with firmware updates AFTER 1 year of releasing the device which is purchased and installed for a long term (decade+).

    Most of the IP cameras - one of the most insecure segment which is from hackers points of view - ideal target for launching massive ddos / bruteforce and other attacks because of the BW (channel) & hardware.

    No firmware updates, more devices every year, no security patches, awful documentation, awful setup, clean ips (not even NAT) = boom we have ready for using part of botnet with 100mbit/s + channel + 128MB ram+ and few cores.

    And I do not talk about extremely popular manufactures of home routers, which EOL in 1 year, used by millions of people, and has enabled ALL extremely insecure options out the box, even if CVE not published.

    This is long story.
    Every single year - more and more devices.
    More goverments purchase 300.000+ cameras per year (numbers not a joke).
    After 1 year such camera model = become a zombie.

    Thanked by 1risharde
  • Which Cloudflare plan are you on? If you're on a business plan or higher then you should be able to live chat to them about it and see what they recommend.

    iptables is legacy and you really should be using nftables these days.

    Thanked by 1risharde
  • TeYroXTeYroX Member

    @Ympker said:
    CF being hit a by lots of attacks these days. This was just recently and concerning a user on the free plan:

    So thats why I had so much requests last week :Sadeg:

    Thanked by 1Ympker
  • FlorinMarianFlorinMarian Member, Host Rep

    Attack still ongoing but I have a new fresh list (IPs banned last 10 minutes): https://pastebin.com/PEjk1i2E

    I can tell you the following:
    1. There are at least 3 attackers / attack methods used
    2. Their IP addresses will be permanently banned and from my checks on abusedb.com, all including .gov (WTF) have been involved in web attacks.

    Discovered methods of attack:

    • Residential IPs that resolved captcha that sent packets unknowingly (few IPs, many connections)
    • TOR network IPs (no number)
    • Various IPs but with random URLs so that they can't be buckled (think attackers)

    My server is still down but I'm doing my best not to let that happen.
    Since I've already lost a lot of money, it doesn't affect me for a few more days as I gain knowledge.

    Thanked by 1risharde
  • @FlorinMarian said: Attack still ongoing but I have a new fresh list (IPs banned last 10 minutes): https://pastebin.com/PEjk1i2E

    >

    please tl;dr, so they are attacking your server directly? not through cloudflare?

  • desperanddesperand Member
    edited June 2022

    If you will read the document: https://media.hotnews.ro/media_server1/document-2022-05-2-25531225-0-raport-adrese-dnsc.pdf you will find out, that this botnet actively used against energy sector and against governments and countries, and cyberpolice guys from Romania interconnect the botnet with russians, which actively use it against everyone.

    Thanked by 1FlorinMarian
  • risharderisharde Patron Provider, Veteran

    @FlorinMarian thank you for providing these details, sorry that you still under attack, did you try the suggestion of using x4b? Or contact cloudflare support? If none of these worked, sounds like your ip is somehow being leaked? And if so, have you checked to ensure you don't have a compromised server? Time to check all bases or even redirect that attack to something offsite even until you audit your server just in case?

    I am no professional in this field of course but I do have flood attacks built into my server software which I don't think I have tested and thus your experience is invaluable as to thinking up even more solutions.

  • risharderisharde Patron Provider, Veteran

    Can you block all ips except cloudflare ips? Shouldn't that solve the attack or am I missing something important here? @FlorinMarian

  • @risharde said:
    Can you block all ips except cloudflare ips? Shouldn't that solve the attack or am I missing something important here? @FlorinMarian

    yes but traffic still goes to the server right? just stopped at the "frontdoor"

    Thanked by 1risharde
  • FlorinMarianFlorinMarian Member, Host Rep

    @nanankcornering said:

    @FlorinMarian said: Attack still ongoing but I have a new fresh list (IPs banned last 10 minutes): https://pastebin.com/PEjk1i2E

    >

    please tl;dr, so they are attacking your server directly? not through cloudflare?

    I disabled CloudFlare for 24 hours because it was useless.> @risharde said:

    @FlorinMarian thank you for providing these details, sorry that you still under attack, did you try the suggestion of using x4b? Or contact cloudflare support? If none of these worked, sounds like your ip is somehow being leaked? And if so, have you checked to ensure you don't have a compromised server? Time to check all bases or even redirect that attack to something offsite even until you audit your server just in case?

    I am no professional in this field of course but I do have flood attacks built into my server software which I don't think I have tested and thus your experience is invaluable as to thinking up even more solutions.

    I don't use CloudFlare anymore because even though it blocked millions of requests, thousands of IP addresses were still enough to protect them to put my server in my head.
    I know for sure that the attack is Layer7 because multiple requests are sent to the site index and then the connection is closed.> @risharde said:

    Can you block all ips except cloudflare ips? Shouldn't that solve the attack or am I missing something important here? @FlorinMarian

    I did this 2 days ago, it was totally useless.

    Thanked by 1risharde
  • ralfralf Member

    I still think you should try something like this:

    • buy another VM from anywhere else
    • set up wireguard between it and your server that does your website
    • tunnel HTTP from the VM to your server over wireguard
    • drop EVERY packet to your server that doesn't go to the wireguard port or SSH (but only from your trusted IP)

    Your server should then be invisible to the attacker, and then you can point cloudflare at the VM.

    Thanked by 1risharde
  • kevindskevinds Member, LIR

    @sidewinder said:

    but assuming they aren't using those, it seems like blocking anything coming from a datacenter fixes like 99% of the problems.

    Suppose it depends on how much money you care to lose on falsely identified IPs.

    An active attack is different from 'normal' firewall rules though, or should be..

  • VoidVoid Member

    @risharde said:

    Can you block all ips except cloudflare ips? Shouldn't that solve the attack or am I missing something important here?

    I think the problem is after blocking all IPs except CF, traffic from other IPs were hitting his servers because backend IPs are exposed. Either that or the traffic from CF IPs alone was high enough to take down his servers. I could be wrong though.

  • ralfralf Member

    Of course, if they still overwhelm your server, then the cloudflare error message will still leak your IP address. I think they should address that.

  • @yoursunny said:
    "When I grow up I wanna be like Path.net"

    Hosting loli websites and dosing other people?

  • @FlorinMarian said:
    Shame list: someone from LET, after seeing that I blocked the external attacks, started to attack only with IPs from Romania

    188.173.80.140
    193.142.146.213
    194.176.167.8
    194.176.167.9
    195.222.107.85
    217.115.213.186
    45.134.225.36
    5.254.110.30
    5.254.110.36
    77.89.204.254
    81.12.169.254
    83.97.20.67
    83.97.20.84
    84.1.106.217
    89.187.169.58
    91.250.242.12
    92.249.219.47
    92.84.56.10
    92.86.92.126
    94.139.150.45
    

    It is tinyweasel, just apologize to him and it ends quickly.

    Thanked by 1Frameworks
  • @FlorinMarian said: I know for sure that the attack is Layer7 because multiple requests are sent to the site index and then the connection is closed.

    If 8000 requests/sec to just your site index is freezing your server, that is the problem.

    @FlorinMarian said: I disabled CloudFlare for 24 hours because it was useless.

    The point of external anti-ddos services like cloudflare or anything else is to offload the scrubbing and handling of some known attack vectors to the external service. If that doesn't work, then you have to investigate what exactly brings you down, and patch that. It's not exactly useless because it probably costed your attackers more time and money to bypass cloudflare. Go cache your site index or whatever and see what type of requests your attackers make next. Then patch those. They will eventually give up.

  • FlorinMarianFlorinMarian Member, Host Rep

    @kevinds said:

    @sidewinder said:

    but assuming they aren't using those, it seems like blocking anything coming from a datacenter fixes like 99% of the problems.

    Suppose it depends on how much money you care to lose on falsely identified IPs.

    An active attack is different from 'normal' firewall rules though, or should be..

    How can false identification be when you make abnormally many requests?> @jmaxwell said:

    @risharde said:

    Can you block all ips except cloudflare ips? Shouldn't that solve the attack or am I missing something important here?

    I think the problem is after blocking all IPs except CF, traffic from other IPs were hitting his servers because backend IPs are exposed. Either that or the traffic from CF IPs alone was high enough to take down his servers. I could be wrong though.

    When you access the IP address of the backend you get a blank html page, not the whmcs content.
    The attack is 100% Layer7, I clarified this a long time ago through access_log.> @NoComment said:

    @FlorinMarian said: I know for sure that the attack is Layer7 because multiple requests are sent to the site index and then the connection is closed.

    If 8000 requests/sec to just your site index is freezing your server, that is the problem.

    index.php queries the database. It's not like if I changed this behavior the attacker couldn't move the attack to cart.php or another more problematic page than that

    @FlorinMarian said: I disabled CloudFlare for 24 hours because it was useless.

    The point of external anti-ddos services like cloudflare or anything else is to offload the scrubbing and handling of some known attack vectors to the external service. If that doesn't work, then you have to investigate what exactly brings you down, and patch that. It's not exactly useless because it probably costed your attackers more time and money to bypass cloudflare. Go cache your site index or whatever and see what type of requests your attackers make next. Then patch those. They will eventually give up.

    Thanked by 1Void
  • @Hotmarer said: It is tinyweasel, just apologize to him and it ends quickly.

    TinyWeasel DDoS Service ᵀᴹ

  • sotssots Member

    @DP said:
    Maybe it would be good to discuss this in private perhaps?

    The last thing you'd want is your enemy(-ies) to know your next move(s).

    Just a thought.

    But maybe we need generic solutions for everyone?

  • @FlorinMarian said: index.php queries the database. It's not like if I changed this behavior the attacker couldn't move the attack to cart.php or another more problematic page than that

    It makes a huge difference because some work has to be done to interact with your billing panel. Maybe the attacker can't use some stressers, maybe he has to run headless browsers and interact with stuff.

    Sure enough, some of the things people have talked about here are somewhat subjective. If you think anti-ddos services are useless, that's totally okay. But 8000/sec get requests to your index should not freeze your server. This is 100% objective.

    I guess people wasted their time writing essays here to help you out.

  • DPDP Administrator, The Domain Guy

    @sots said:

    @DP said:
    Maybe it would be good to discuss this in private perhaps?

    The last thing you'd want is your enemy(-ies) to know your next move(s).

    Just a thought.

    But maybe we need generic solutions for everyone?

    That can come later, when the issue is resolved :smiley:

  • FlorinMarianFlorinMarian Member, Host Rep

    @NoComment said:

    @FlorinMarian said: index.php queries the database. It's not like if I changed this behavior the attacker couldn't move the attack to cart.php or another more problematic page than that

    It makes a huge difference because some work has to be done to interact with your billing panel. Maybe the attacker can't use some stressers, maybe he has to run headless browsers and interact with stuff.

    Sure enough, some of the things people have talked about here are somewhat subjective. If you think anti-ddos services are useless, that's totally okay. But 8000/sec get requests to your index should not freeze your server. This is 100% objective.

    I guess people wasted their time writing essays here to help you out.

    I did not say that Anti DDoS services are useless, I said that tested solutions were useless.

  • @stevewatson301 said:
    Just some observations:

    • Using iptables, and with the overhead of conntrack on top isn't usually worth it as you're expending the same CPU power that you're trying to prevent. Cue @yoursunny talking about AF_XDP :tongue:
    • Also, when using iptables write rules for the attacks that you actually see, instead of writing generic rules that may or may not apply to your situation.
    • You could also just throw in Cloudflare's IUAM or managed challenge and call it a day.

    IUAM can be bypass

This discussion has been closed.