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EU to have AI automatically scan private chats (including encrypted messengers) - Page 2
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EU to have AI automatically scan private chats (including encrypted messengers)

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Comments

  • chipchip Member

    @stevewatson301 said:
    However, laws such as the GDPR are ill-conceived and have disastrous consequences. If I, a small business owner, want to operate a global business and collect the customer's email address and phone number, I have to keep a localized database just for EU customers. Even if I'm trying to fetch that database in the non-EU country where I'm incorporated, just to get sales totals for a year, I'm probably in violation of it because I've moved it elsewhere.

    GDPR is a great idea, but I agree ill conceived and poorly executed

    The idea is the information remains the customers as for far too long once it was handed over to corporations (even the doctors surgery) it was there information and the old data protection act wasn't really fit for purpose .... as technology has moved on and didn't really cover digital information also cyber crime didn't exist when the data protection act was useful

    And for companies inside and outside the EU because it was ill thought out it was indeed an absolute nightmare

  • NekkiNekki Veteran

    @commercial said:

    @Jake4 said:
    Thank god the UK left the EU

    Because Five Eyes is better? :D

    No, because now we get blue passport covers and have to learn the imperial system again. Rule Britannia!

    Thanked by 1Jake4
  • @Neoon said:
    This is going to be fun.

    All the new NEO Banks right, they use A.I too, have a guess how many people complain about Locked or even Terminated Bank Accounts.

    Even I get my Card locked now and then for as by A.I defined "sus" payments.

    What a fucking shit show.

    I don't think many people understand AI has to/will make wrong choices to gain experience at getting right answers in the future. Anyone who doesn't understand AI WILL make errors by design can't be making decisions that AI affects.

  • sotssots Member

    @lowendclient said:

    @Jake4 said:
    Thank god the UK left the EU

    In UK it is even unable to access pirate bay...
    They have a similar network firewall like china but fewer block rules...

    But VPN is allowed there, while in China VPN tunnel without authorization is illegal. So you can just buy a VPN and use it to download torrent in UK.

  • MaouniqueMaounique Host Rep, Veteran

    Not that i am defending this shit, but it is increasingly pointless to fight the drip-drip of surveillance laws and regulations.
    I am encrypting, Tor-ing and using fake identities for more than 10 years when I saw this coming as well as supporting all anonymizing and encrypting projects I could by donating resources and even money.
    If you haven't created an off-the-grid identity yet, you are a retard, literally, in the sense of late to understand stuff and protect yourself.

    This will always be like fighting "illegal immigration". Barriers, rules and regulations only apply to people obeying the law, the criminals will always keep coming so it will be a self-fulfilling prophecy, only criminals come from "shit-hole countries" because the law-abiding people are blocked by the law.

    It will always be cumbersome and costly for regular people and law enforcement to monitor, authenticate, track IPs instead of people, policing can only be done correctly the old way, infiltrate, gather evidence, take down the ring/gang/cult/terrorist/whatever group. Mass surveillance will never work, there are rare occasions ppl don't know they are doing something illegal and will take counter measures, the government, companies, regular people, essentially, will pick up the bill for nothing. This is like the war on drugs, islam, immigration, etc. Everyone loses.

    Thanked by 1commercial
  • ArkasArkas Moderator

    Good luck to them decrypting my telegram and signal messages... :lol:

  • YmpkerYmpker Member

    @Arkas said:
    Good luck to them decrypting my telegram and signal messages... :lol:

    I think they are more likely to urge telegram/signal to implement a backdoor before encryption happens, or have their apps removed from EU app stores. Ofc you can probably still side load the apps but that's still gonna be a steep decrease in users. Esp. when trying to convince not so techy friends to use such apps instead of WA etc.

    Thanked by 2let_rocks Chuck
  • @Ympker said:

    @Arkas said:
    Good luck to them decrypting my telegram and signal messages... :lol:

    I think they are more likely to urge telegram/signal to implement a backdoor before encryption happens, or have their apps removed from EU app stores. Ofc you can probably still side load the apps but that's still gonna be a steep decrease in users. Esp. when trying to convince not so techy friends to use such apps instead of WA etc.

    This, they will require apps that use E2E (Telegram secret chat, WhatsApp, etc) to implement a backdoor of some sort, to get to messages before the encryption is applied.

    Thanked by 1Chuck
  • ArkasArkas Moderator
    edited May 2022

    There is no way on earth telegram, and especially signal, would destroy their reputation and raison d'être for the EU's sake. If they were to do that, they will lose many of their customers, which in this specific case are knowledgeable IT people, for a lot of the part.
    Heck, even wars, not just in the Ukraine, but also in the mid east and beyond rely on them for security, and that includes MANY journalists.

  • let_rockslet_rocks Member
    edited May 2022

    I think Telegram will try to circumvent the rulings, government resistance is not new for them, they had plenty in Russia.

    EU mandated all EU member states to block access to Russian news channels, but a lot of providers have not even done this. And it isn't actively enforced as far as I'm aware. Different topic but still relevant imo since it also applies to internet space.

  • @Arkas said: There is no way on earth telegram, and especially signal, would destroy their reputation and raison d'être for the EU's sake.

    Given a choice between destroying your reputation or livelihood, the obvious choice would be to lie about E2E or implement a side channel like Apple's "Private intersection" CP scanner.

    Thanked by 2Ympker Chuck
  • ArkasArkas Moderator
    edited May 2022

    @stevewatson301 said: Given a choice between destroying your reputation or livelihood, the obvious choice would be to lie about E2E or implement a side channel like Apple's "Private intersection" CP scanner.

    But you do realize that even a hint of this would destroy them. Heck even isis the lowly creatures use it. Signal on the other hand... They wouldn't think twice, they would find a way around the EU and run circles around them.
    What's next, ask for the Tor browser to send them info? :lol:
    Never gonna happen!

  • @Arkas said:

    @stevewatson301 said: Given a choice between destroying your reputation or livelihood, the obvious choice would be to lie about E2E or implement a side channel like Apple's "Private intersection" CP scanner.

    But you do realize that even a hint of this would destroy them. Heck even isis the lowly creatures use it. Signal on the other hand... They wouldn't think twice, they would find a way around the EU and run circles around them.
    What's next, ask for the Tor browser to send them info? :lol:
    Never gonna happen!

    I don't know what this is: an unwavering libertarian faith or just naiveté, but in the narrative spun by the EU, corporations are always the evil ones who must be controlled, and subverting the law would just reinforce the impression.

  • @stevewatson301 said:

    @Arkas said: There is no way on earth telegram, and especially signal, would destroy their reputation and raison d'être for the EU's sake.

    Given a choice between destroying your reputation or livelihood, the obvious choice would be to lie about E2E or implement a side channel like Apple's "Private intersection" CP scanner.

    For me, Signal started to stink once they started peddling a shitcoin in their app.

    https://www.wired.com/story/signal-mobilecoin-payments-messaging-cryptocurrency/

    Thanked by 1TimboJones
  • YmpkerYmpker Member
    edited May 2022

    @Arkas said:
    There is no way on earth telegram, and especially signal, would destroy their reputation and raison d'être for the EU's sake. If they were to do that, they will lose many of their customers, which in this specific case are knowledgeable IT people, for a lot of the part.
    Heck, even wars, not just in the Ukraine, but also in the mid east and beyond rely on them for security, and that includes MANY journalists.

    Thing is, if you want to get your not so techy friends, (older) family members etc to join one of those encrypted, privacy focused messengers, it's already tough. Now, imagine telling them the app has been removed from the app store in the EU and they'd have to sideload it. Even if you did sideload and install it for every single of your friends/family, it's a pita. So, in conclusion, if Signal/Telegram want to stay "viable" for the AppStore users, they'll comply. At the same time, if they don't and you have to sideload their apps you're likely to keep sending messages to yourself and maybe some other IT guys, because noone of your not so techy friends/family will use it.

  • VoidVoid Member

    @hostdare said:
    This can be compared with Indian govt asking vpn providers to keep logs for 5 years

    India is way ahead of EU on that front. WhatAssp tried to sue Indian government in 2020 because they were asked to setup a surveillance system by breaking encryption.

  • @jmaxwell said:

    @hostdare said:
    This can be compared with Indian govt asking vpn providers to keep logs for 5 years

    India is way ahead of EU on that front. WhatAssp tried to sue Indian government in 2020 because they were asked to setup a surveillance system by breaking encryption.

    There's a difference between breaking encryption (all messages) and having a compliance check that checks the data before/after encryption. It's trivial to add to keyboard/dictionary/spellcheck code and would be where to implement this. No encryption needed to be broken.

    There's always been lawful search requirements for the historical stuff like phones and private correspondence. Courts can require third parties to give up encryption keys already for decades. This is just catching up in the 21st century technology.

    You can't treat using other's infrastructure and resources as your own private property with all the privacy that entails. That's ridiculous expectation. How would you feel if you rented out a house and the renters were raping kids? And then the police come and arrest you for helping them. You would want to have a balance for the owner to say "I didn't know they were doing that" and give them the keys when told "there's kids being raped on your property". Taking the response "fuck you, I don't care if you think they're raping kids, throw me in jail since I'm actively helping them evade police and detection" is pretty shit and doesn't help society.

    Years ago, BlackBerry took flack for helping in serious crimes like this when served with warrants. They got shit on and people flocked to Apple thinking they were more private and able to carry on their pedophile shit with impunity. They just had better PR than BlackBerry.

    If you ever watch these CSI or whatever type shows, having a dedicated, global group to fight CP that can cross country lines without red tape is what the World needs. They just need a credible leader that the World can trust to run an elite task Force like that.

    The kids can't fight CP and get out of their circumstances. We, the outside people really need to take up the effort to snuff out all this shit.

  • @jmaxwell said:

    @hostdare said:
    This can be compared with Indian govt asking vpn providers to keep logs for 5 years

    India is way ahead of EU on that front. WhatAssp tried to sue Indian government in 2020 because they were asked to setup a surveillance system by breaking encryption.

    Whatsapp already have a "backdoor" that allows messages to be send to another party without the senders knowledge. A PhD researcher discovered it and informed Whatsapp. They didn't fix it. He concluded it's programmed in by Whatsapp on purpose to allow the backdoor.

    Thanked by 2hostdare commercial
  • hostdarehostdare Member, Patron Provider

    @jmaxwell said: India is way ahead of EU on that front.

    see all govt doing this . now you cannot blame china,russia or India . Every country is doing the same eventually . While it can be used to solve crime, but law enforcement can misused it for mass surveillance as well

    Thanked by 2Void Chuck
  • sotssots Member

    Then we have to self-host matrix or mastodon servers to protect our data?

  • ChuckChuck Member

    @deank
    The end is nigh.

  • bobebobe Member

    Recommend getsession.org

  • zcorpszcorps Member

    hmmmm then they say china is the only one who hunt privacy. damn EU

    Thanked by 2Chuck commercial
  • netguynetguy Member

    Surveillance is a dangerous trend against human rights!

  • VoidVoid Member

    I read a comment somewhere that this scanning occurs on-device and no amount of self hosting can overcome this.

  • defaultdefault Veteran

    @jmaxwell said:
    I read a comment somewhere that this scanning occurs on-device and no amount of self hosting can overcome this.

    There is a solution: disconnect from internet. Let them have the whole internet. We might return back to LAN and offline private networks.

  • VoidVoid Member

    @default said:

    @jmaxwell said:
    I read a comment somewhere that this scanning occurs on-device and no amount of self hosting can overcome this.

    There is a solution: disconnect from internet. Let them have the whole internet. We might return back to LAN and offline private networks.

    Sticking to hardened open-source options (like GrapheneOS for Mobile) could be a solution practically.

  • FlashFlash Member

    The fight against CP have not to allow automatically scan private chats.

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