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How much do IPv4 Address go for nowadays?
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How much do IPv4 Address go for nowadays?

randvegetarandvegeta Member, Host Rep

It's 2022....

How much does a /24 sell for these days? Not talking about the rental price, but the actual SALE price.

What's that worth?

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Comments

  • yoursunnyyoursunny Member, IPv6 Advocate
    edited May 11

    /24 sells for about 32768 push-ups.
    Not cheap!

    Quote from our client who received a quote in push-ups:
    the only thing that would have appeared after 23982 push-ups would have been the paramedics to haul my dead body away....

  • emreemre Member

    @randvegeta said: It's 2022....

    How much does a /24 sell for these days? Not talking about the rental price, but the actual SALE price.

    What's that worth?

    https://auctions.ipv4.global/prior-sales

  • ralfralf Member
    edited May 11

    I do find it interesting that 14 class A networks are reserved for the US DOD, with presumably very few of these addresses being exposed to the internet at large. That's 8% of the entire addressable IPv4 address space gone for no good reason.

    And still some legacy corporation-owned class A networks that just seem ridiculous, e.g. Ford Motor Company and USPS. Just these two alone is another 1% and I can't imagine either if them have genuine requirements for more than a couple class C networks each.

    I know that freeing up these ranges would only postpone the death of IPv4 for a short time, but I still can't understand why people aren't kicking up more of a fuss about them.

  • ezethezeth Member, Patron Provider

    @ralf said:
    I do find it interesting that 14 class A networks are reserved for the US DOD, with presumably very few of these addresses being exposed to the internet at large. That's 8% of the entire addressable IPv4 address space gone for no good reason.

    And still some legacy corporation-owned class A networks that just seem ridiculous, e.g. Ford Motor Company and USPS. Just these two alone is another 1% and I can't imagine either if them have genuine requirements for more than a couple class C networks each.

    I know that freeing up these ranges would only postpone the death of IPv4 for a short time, but I still can't understand why people aren't kicking up more of a fuss about them.

    At that point you may as well try freeing up CLASS E that has 300M IPv4 reserved for future use

  • emreemre Member

    @ralf said: I do find it interesting that 14 class A networks are reserved for the US DOD, with presumably very few of these addresses being exposed to the internet at large. That's 8% of the entire addressable IPv4 address space gone for no good reason.

    And still some legacy corporation-owned class A networks that just seem ridiculous, e.g. Ford Motor Company and USPS. Just these two alone is another 1% and I can't imagine either if them have genuine requirements for more than a couple class C networks each.

    I know that freeing up these ranges would only postpone the death of IPv4 for a short time, but I still can't understand why people aren't kicking up more of a fuss about them.

    >

    all these stuff discussed million times again and again. Really you think you are the first one to find out these just by looking current ipv4 maps?

    Ipv4 is no more ipv6 is the future.

    But this future will not come so quick as they thought years ago when they created the ipv6 stuff.

    Yes some corps, goverment agencies stay on top of millions of unused ipv4's and yes they will not ever let go of these ip's.

    Deal with it.

    If you want to have ipv4 in large quantities you can buy from open market.

    Nobody will ever give you "free" ipv4 anymore.

    As per ipv6 ... the future yet a very distant future...

    Thanked by 1babuum
  • ralfralf Member

    @emre said:
    all these stuff discussed million times again and again. Really you think you are the first one to find out these just by looking current ipv4 maps?

    No. Actually, when looking at the current maps, I was surprised how many of the big companies have disposed of their historic class A's, because I wanted to pick on Microsoft as having a huge block when I started my post and then discovered they no longer had it.

    Deal with it.

    I dealt with it years ago. But thanks anyway for your input.

  • ArkasArkas Member
    edited May 11

    I wish IPv6 becomes a standard soon, but don't see it happening. Until then, its IPv4, and I think the best prices are on the open market, but tough to get clean ones.

  • What stops somebody from grabbing a free /24 from ARIN (they're still available after a few-month waiting period, right?) and reselling it for $50 per IP?

  • szymonpszymonp Member

    @dane_doherty said:
    What stops somebody from grabbing a free /24 from ARIN (they're still available after a few-month waiting period, right?) and reselling it for $50 per IP?

    "Per ARIN policy, any IPv4 address space distributed from the waiting list cannot be transferred to another organization for 60 months, with the exception of Section 8.2 transfers. After 60 months, the space can be transferred."
    From:
    https://www.arin.net/resources/guide/ipv4/waiting_list/

  • randvegetarandvegeta Member, Host Rep

    So has anyone here bought or sold IP space for ~$50/IP?

  • RickBakkrRickBakkr Member, Patron Provider, LIR

    @randvegeta said:
    So has anyone here bought or sold IP space for ~$50/IP?

    We recently sold off a /23 for €25K. That would round up to €48 per IP, so over the $50 mark.

  • ShakibShakib Member, Patron Provider

    Sold a /24 for €11.6K including all fees.

  • ShakibShakib Member, Patron Provider
    edited May 11

    @szymonp said:

    @dane_doherty said:
    What stops somebody from grabbing a free /24 from ARIN (they're still available after a few-month waiting period, right?) and reselling it for $50 per IP?

    "Per ARIN policy, any IPv4 address space distributed from the waiting list cannot be transferred to another organization for 60 months, with the exception of Section 8.2 transfers. After 60 months, the space can be transferred."
    From:
    https://www.arin.net/resources/guide/ipv4/waiting_list/

    This policy doesn't apply if your range assigned before this policy came out.

    Yes. I won the argument once.

  • ezethezeth Member, Patron Provider
    edited May 11

    @szymonp said:

    @dane_doherty said:
    What stops somebody from grabbing a free /24 from ARIN (they're still available after a few-month waiting period, right?) and reselling it for $50 per IP?

    "Per ARIN policy, any IPv4 address space distributed from the waiting list cannot be transferred to another organization for 60 months, with the exception of Section 8.2 transfers. After 60 months, the space can be transferred."
    From:
    https://www.arin.net/resources/guide/ipv4/waiting_list/

    Unless you do a merger (most popular option according to statistics) then there’s no minimum time

    The fact that IPv4 is so costly is really limiting growth.. more will need to start looking into NAT or CGNAT

  • jbilohjbiloh Administrator

    I think that we have reached, and passed, peak IPv4. Prices are coming down just a little bit now.

  • ezethezeth Member, Patron Provider
    edited May 11

    @jbiloh said:
    I think that we have reached, and passed, peak IPv4. Prices are coming down just a little bit now.

    I think so too, local peak at least, but in a few years it will probably keep rising

  • @Arkas said:
    I wish IPv6 becomes a standard soon, but don't see it happening. Until then, its IPv4, and I think the best prices are on the open market, but tough to get clean ones.

    It's been "a standard" for decades, but you meant "the standard".

  • FranciscoFrancisco Top Host, Host Rep

    @jbiloh said:
    I think that we have reached, and passed, peak IPv4. Prices are coming down just a little bit now.

    Are you really going to make the same bet...twice?

    Anyway, it'll calm down a bit, but as it dries up, demand will drive it back up and even further.

    There's only so much available, and now that people are realizing what it sells for on the market, you're seeing almost nothing getting returns to the registries. ARIN has had 2 waiting list distributions this year (January & April), but they haven't even cleared out last years requests, nevermind anything since.

    The waiting list is 295 entries deep, it'll get pretty close to 400 by the time the June/July release happens. RIPE's list is 821 entries deep, and that's for single /24's, not even /22's like ARIN allows up to.

    At this point i'm taking bets on how long before /25's and even /26's get approved for global routing, just to make V4 last longer.

    Francisco

  • yoursunnyyoursunny Member, IPv6 Advocate

    @Francisco said:
    At this point i'm taking bets on how long before /25's and even /26's get approved for global routing, just to make V4 last longer.

    They should allow IPv4 /32 in global routing.
    LIR starts selling a bundle of ASN, IPv4 /32, and IPv6 /48.
    Everyone can have anycast for cheap at any BGP-capable providers.

  • randvegetarandvegeta Member, Host Rep

    Anyone in the market for 4x /22s at $50/IP?

  • xTomxTom Member, Patron Provider

    We have brokered some prefixes from $44 to $55, depends on the seller.

  • ralfralf Member

    @yoursunny said:
    They should allow IPv4 /32 in global routing.

    Actually, that would kind of make sense nowadays.

    When IPv4 was new and memory was still really expensive, you'd want to keep the routing tables as simple as possible.

    But nowadays, a 4GB lookup table is completely feasible for a router that's going to be sitting on a major node straddling many routes.

  • babuumbabuum Member

    @yoursunny said:

    They should allow IPv4 /32 in global routing.
    LIR starts selling a bundle of ASN, IPv4 /32, and IPv6 /48.

    Who is "they"? Every ASN can configure their filters whatever they like. And to deploy this you have to change the config of EVERY ASN and the routing table size is limited so I'm not sure how many ISPs will enable this DoS vector. This sounds like IPv6 but only usable at all when 100% of all ASNs enabled it.

  • randvegetarandvegeta Member, Host Rep

    @babuum said:

    @yoursunny said:

    They should allow IPv4 /32 in global routing.
    LIR starts selling a bundle of ASN, IPv4 /32, and IPv6 /48.

    Who is "they"? Every ASN can configure their filters whatever they like. And to deploy this you have to change the config of EVERY ASN and the routing table size is limited so I'm not sure how many ISPs will enable this DoS vector. This sounds like IPv6 but only usable at all when 100% of all ASNs enabled it.

    They, meaning tier 1 upstreams.

  • yoursunnyyoursunny Member, IPv6 Advocate

    @babuum said:

    @yoursunny said:

    They should allow IPv4 /32 in global routing.
    LIR starts selling a bundle of ASN, IPv4 /32, and IPv6 /48.

    Who is "they"? Every ASN can configure their filters whatever they like. And to deploy this you have to change the config of EVERY ASN and the routing table size is limited so I'm not sure how many ISPs will enable this DoS vector. This sounds like IPv6 but only usable at all when 100% of all ASNs enabled it.

    yoursunny summer host Inc can operate a router network accessible via VXLAN.
    We will accept IPv4 /32 and IPv6 /128 announcements, so that you can make full use of your IP addresses.
    We will issue IPv4 Class E addresses and IPv9 addresses for free.
    Basically it's a big LAN…

    Anyone wanna donate an AX41-NVMe so I can make this happen?

    Thanked by 1Xrmaddness
  • raindog308raindog308 Administrator

    @ralf said: I do find it interesting that 14 class A networks are reserved for the US DOD, with presumably very few of these addresses being exposed to the internet at large. That's 8% of the entire addressable IPv4 address space gone for no good reason.

    And still some legacy corporation-owned class A networks that just seem ridiculous, e.g. Ford Motor Company and USPS. Just these two alone is another 1% and I can't imagine either if them have genuine requirements for more than a couple class C networks each.

    Yeah, yeah...people have been complaining about this for a long time.

    I know that freeing up these ranges would only postpone the death of IPv4 for a short time, but I still can't understand why people aren't kicking up more of a fuss about them.

    What fuss would you like to see kicked?

    Realistically, some of those ranges are never coming back. The USPS? That would require work by USPS employees, so it's a no-go. DOD? Possible because they have more money than God, but the problem is that they have more money than God and have a get-out-of-anything "it's national security" card, so neither motivation nor compulsion will get it done.

    Ford has no such card and does not have more money even than Elon Musk, so I have to believe that sheer market dynamics will eventually prompt a sale. There is a dollar amount Ford would get for relinquishing their /8 and apparently once you subtract the project costs of switching over - and unless you've worked in large enterprise IT you can't begin to imagine how much work this is, both for Ford and literally hundreds of thousands of their partners - there's not enough payback. Maybe when IP costs are double what they are today? Triple? At some point the equation will work.

    Thanked by 2lentro ralf
  • lentrolentro Member, Host Rep

    @raindog308 said: it's national security

    Actually yes: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26924883

    several Chinese companies use network numbering systems that resemble the U.S. military’s IP addresses in their internal systems

    So basically 11.0.0.0/8 is apparently used by some Chinese on their internal systems, and the US DOD wants to collect any information flowing to those IPs by badly-designed systems to spy on them :joy:.

    Pure speculation here, but I find that to be pretty hilarious.

  • babuumbabuum Member

    @randvegeta said:

    @babuum said:

    @yoursunny said:

    They should allow IPv4 /32 in global routing.
    LIR starts selling a bundle of ASN, IPv4 /32, and IPv6 /48.

    Who is "they"? Every ASN can configure their filters whatever they like. And to deploy this you have to change the config of EVERY ASN and the routing table size is limited so I'm not sure how many ISPs will enable this DoS vector. This sounds like IPv6 but only usable at all when 100% of all ASNs enabled it.

    They, meaning tier 1 upstreams.

    This doesn't make the prefixes reachable if all downstream ASNs still filter the route which all should do.

  • randvegetarandvegeta Member, Host Rep

    @babuum said:

    @randvegeta said:

    @babuum said:

    @yoursunny said:

    They should allow IPv4 /32 in global routing.
    LIR starts selling a bundle of ASN, IPv4 /32, and IPv6 /48.

    Who is "they"? Every ASN can configure their filters whatever they like. And to deploy this you have to change the config of EVERY ASN and the routing table size is limited so I'm not sure how many ISPs will enable this DoS vector. This sounds like IPv6 but only usable at all when 100% of all ASNs enabled it.

    They, meaning tier 1 upstreams.

    This doesn't make the prefixes reachable if all downstream ASNs still filter the route which all should do.

    What?

    Who's actually filtering routes so that prefixes are <24 ? I don't. Ok sure there are large tier 2 or tier 3 upstreams that probably do filtering by route size, but even if they didn't, unless the tier 1 isn' filtering by router size, it makes no difference.

    My company is a tiny provider on the global scale. What I do, policy wise, makes no difference. My biggest upstream, HGC, is also not going to make a difference. Even if HE.net change their filters to access prefixes >24, that wont make a difference.

    Ultimately, it needs to start from the top.

  • kevindskevinds Member, LIR

    @lentro said:
    So basically 11.0.0.0/8 is apparently used by some Chinese on their internal systems, and the US DOD wants to collect any information flowing to those IPs by badly-designed systems to spy on them :joy:.

    Pure speculation here, but I find that to be pretty hilarious.

    Many, many companies use 11.0.0.0/8 as an extension to RFC1918.. "Ran" out of 10. so lets use 11.

    Was a problem when 11.0.0.0/8 showed up on the internet briefly a couple years back.

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