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Messaging under control
rustelekom
Member, Patron Provider
From March 1, 2022, developers and owners of messengers will have to identify their users in Russia.
Identification will be carried out by contacting the messenger to the mobile operator. The mobile operator must provide a response stating that this person has been identified within no more than 20 minutes.
If the mobile operator responds that he does not have such a user or his data is not verified, the messenger should not activate the user or allow him to send and receive messages.
For reference: this is the decree of the Government of Russia #1801 of 20/10/2021
Sure, you can say that is Russia with his dictator Putin but i doubt this is only Russia specific tendention.
So, what you think, are this is new trend in government war against freedom of people or not?
- Messaging under control by government39 votes
- Yes15.38%
- No5.13%
- In undemocratic countries20.51%
- In far future2.56%
- In near future12.82%
- Already under control35.90%
- Other (please describe in comment)7.69%
Comments
Two quick remarks:
One must not look at Russia with "western" eyes. It's already (and since decades) absolutely normal there to provide real name and data/to show ID for many things, e.g. when buying tickets. So, what probably looks like shocking to Europeans and North-Americans actually isn't that big a thing for Russians.
Secondly, the real difference is that Russia does it overtly while the western "democracies" do it covertly - and, yes, they do it and increasingly even think about doing it overtly.
Finally, of bloody course no government tolerates full freedom plus anonymity and at least partially they have good reasons for that.
I agree with you, but we have a lot of "Internet activists" here in Russia who immediately launch a campaign against this and other digital technologies and call it as war against democracy and so on. To be honest, I disagree with them, because a specific tool cannot be a source of problems. It is important who uses this tool and how.
Government never win this "war". The main goal for them here is control and distraction when shit hits the fan (elimination of any potential dangers for current governing power).
Russia has many interesting "bans" and "forbidden this and that", but in practice this works only when you need to crucify some "Oleg". You know this adage: if there is a person, we always can find how guilty he is.
I read things literally so if I go to Russia I'm identifying as an anonymous woman, for which a literal interpretation of your words gives me a nice way out.
So, now, they'll at least be identifiable and known by name. Russia seems to try hard - and successfully so far - to avoid "Californication".
When russian officials ask for ID they do not mean "how and as what do you identify at this moment?".
If I had to choose between Portland and Murmansk (really quite cold) I'd pick Murmansk every day of the week and twice on sunday.
A very interesting social dynamic that one can observe in this thread is that the Russians in question can only accept what validates their own view. Something something vpsbench
Yes, unfortunately for historical reason law here very selective. Therefore, people do not respect these laws. For quite some time now, people here have no confidence in the authorities. To any government, not just the current one.
But I'm watching (maybe I'm wrong) that trust in the authorities is also disappearing in the West.
Hm, i not sure that i get you correct but in any case you cannot into Russia as anonymous. It is impossible because you need get visa.
Hah:) I understand you. BTW. Murmansk has a very big potential for leaving and working. There will open many sea and earth clusters within next 10 years.
Below is Murmansk on winter with the Northern Lights.
American government: "Do what we say"
Russians: "I'm going to drink vodka and pretend you don't want to go to war."
Russian government: "Papers please."
Russians: "Yes daddy"
I think this is not a specific case in Russia. I often watch the RTVI channel, and they constantly invite American Democrats and Republicans to discussions. In 99% of cases, they disagreed with each other.
Moreover, they are very angry at the other side and sometimes it looks like very close to a cold civil war.
In addition, millions of political topics demonstrate the same problem - people do not want to find compromises and are very often ready to wage war (fortunately, so far only on the Internet) against their opponent.
When Putin dies the Russians will become anti government too. He's a single man standing between Russians and China. When he's gone, you'll have a very good candidate who seems to share all of your values, and you'll later find out he was shaking hands with China in secret the whole time. It's why every country in bed with China is always looking for a reason to kick Russia.
I'm taking a mental bet on the series of events. All of the above is purely my theory of how the world actually works today. Everyone has a theory about how things happen in private, behind closed doors, that one you don't talk about because someone would call you crazy. That's mine.
All countries are do monitoring their citizens, it doesn’t matter which country Russia, China, UK or USA all them are full of BS democracy as it’s just on paper only! All countries do spy and only thick/stupid do believe that only Russia, China and USA do!
Train them young in getting surveilled. Learn from the Uk and start using facial recognition in school cafeteria .
On that note…
Hey @sandoz is Russia in Europe or Asia? What does the Privacy Propoganda For Dummies handbook teach?
Half in Europe and half in Asia.
Did you incorrectly type "China" when you really meant "the USA?" Aren't the USA and Ukraine trying to kick Russia? At least for Nord Stream 2?
The development is depressing, cold and brings to life some of the most disturbing lessons learned from the contemporary history.
While our comrades (@rustelekom , @jsg ?) try to rationalise it, I can only point to the activities of Agayants and his successors. Or Artuzov if one wants to dwell past the modern history.
I shall also remind that the mass purges (purge as the capital punishment, not as
rm -rf) are often indiscriminate and do not automatically favour those serving the regime.History cannot to be reversed back. She can be repeated but each attempt will have differences.
I don't imagine that Sweden or Danish people will accept mass woman sterilization again. I also believe that USA people would not back to segregation black and Germany people would not back to usage gazenwagen.
Same about Russia mass red terror and China culture revolution.
But attempts to history reverse back might happen and people in all countries must be ready to stop any such trying.
US is an agent of China in my wild theory.
It is already outside the window.
https://gulagu-net.ru/ <-- this is tapes from 2020 year of typical russian jail. Where people tourtuned, raped, and beaten for different classic gulag red-shit stuff. Like blaming themselves for things that they did not do, otherwise tortures' will continue.
Welcome to our lovely sweet USSR 2.0
I always have fun when they trying release it on paper but in reality it will takes much more time and power to almost impossible to perform. Remind about ,dictator, tells We block all foreign internet starting from November 2020 but now a year and still nothing happened. There a country of buareucracy when new laws takes a months or years before they really released. Or companies just trying to ignore them. If company have a millions of subscribes react to each one within 20 minutes just curious. There no such human resources for them. Also how about if user behind VPN?
Red terror was directly initiated by top governance. Lenin, Stalin and other top governance explained it as war against old civilization to quickly get better future. Just recall first words of the "International" sing.
The current situation in Russia is de-ideologized and has nothing to do with the red terror. This is (as in other countries) a struggle between many human groups with various political, commercial, corrupt, racial, religious interests.
Of course, money and power always matter.
Russia and other countries of the former USSR simply have less experience in the field of law, democratic procedures, etc., and therefore we can observe many very sad cases, which in most cases cannot occur so often in the USA or EU countries. But even this long history does not help the US and the EU to end the disease.
Floyd in the USA, Breivik in Norwich, Assange in the UK show that law enforcement agencies can be too much active or too passive, and this does not depend on democratic procedure, but mainly depends from instruction on the "deep state". Who is the "deep state"? I do not know, but I believe they exists
In my old days, the "deep state" was called as "the gray cardinals".
You just wrongly understand words ,Red Terror, There was a additional ideology with nothing about classic terrorism.
You just represent some kind of Russian liberal views, fake on half for attract some kind of people, teenagers and those who not really cares about real history.
I'm sorry if I didn't make myself clear. The red terror was borrowed from the Latin word "terror", but you are right that this is a very specific term and has nothing to do with the classical definition of terror. It's just that in Russia, traditionally, this phenomenon was called "red terror" (at least after 1985). I could also remind you that Lenin himself also qualified this phenomenon as "red terror" in some of his books. In the USSR, his words were explained as a response to the "white terror".
In fact, it began as a civil war between the reds and whites, and then turned into a continuous struggle with the wrong origin, thinking, ideas.
This is not unique to the revolution - the same thing happened, for example, in France after Grand Revolution.
I was born two years before Gagarin's run into space, I was a Komsomol member, so I'm talking USSR not because someone told me so:)
In general, I hope we are all liberals here. A normal person does not get any pleasure from dictatorship. Let minorities live for their own pleasure, let everyone be equal, let every person travel the world and live where he wants.
But I am a supporter of the fact that in my country, in my homeland, I can follow the laws and traditions of my country, and not some foreign country.
No such thing. But we digress:
Isn't it best to not repeat mistakes of the past, but to learn from them? See the quoted link below.
Watch and make your own judgement.
By all means, please do.
That's... Quite a turn! If I may ask, what do you think about the trajectory of the Russian state given your life experience so far? Is it going to digress back into quasi-communism, stay in its current state or embrace the liberal values you have mentioned earlier? Or maybe something entirely different, you tell me.
Vladimir Lenin also declared the dictatorship of the proletariat in his works, but this does not mean that he became a dictator. All the power of workers and peasants who decide now all that should be done. After almost 300+ years, when no one resolved anything other than the monarch. Also with red terror if you took power to your hands, it is necessary to keep it with any price from where this terminology arose
Such issue happen there and here. It is not something specific only for Russia. You just not don't know and never seen what happen in Thailand or Indonesian jails.
Russia of course by technology and rules more advanced than some Asian country and to implement video recording for each prison cell as well as actions of each jailer top management has a reason.
So, question is why does the local leadership turn a blind eye to these cases while they have a good evidence and good control on situation.
To tell the trust, jailer never was respected profession in Russia and might be this is a main reason.
Before response you we need learn definition. What is quasi-communism and what is liberal values?
I don't know anything about quasi-communism. Communism itself was not a totalitarian, but a humanistic ideology. Equal rights for all people were promised, and so on. Further modification of this ideology (in the USSR) sent it down a very dogmatic and bad path.
But the Chinese way, perhaps, shows that with digitalization, artificial intelligence and other modern technologies, the state or the community can value each person and provide him with adequate remuneration. Big Brother? Yes, but in order for a person to live with dignity, and not for totalitarianism.
Liberal values - yes, all people want equal rights regardless of race, age, gender, citizenship and so on. Yes, the state and society should not be too strict and often touch a person's private life. But the devil is in the details.
When you can't call a woman a woman (maybe she'll be offended?).
When it is impossible to call black as black (maybe he will be offended?).
When you can't compliment a woman. When a person who has no gender appears in society.
When monuments erected 100 or more years ago are demolished and history is rewritten because they do not correspond to current political and social trends.
No, these are definitely not liberal values. I would call it globalist ideas. And I don't really want to change the power of the state to the power of international corporations.
These fake things was born in 1990's when the other people takes a power over country and start blames previous power as usual.
Putler lovers should just shut the fuck up.
"Putler" - is definition come from Ukraine. Ukrainian always was creative people but this does not mean they are right in all cases. Ukrainian state made Bandera and Shukhevych national heroes while those guys known as collaborationists in WWII. Anyway, this is Ukraine people deal and does not matter in this topic.
What does matter is that politics now in many countries lost people trust and in many cases elected by democratic way politicians do something which is against their own country interests and people.