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New Apple 14/16" MBPs (M1 PRO and MAX)

2

Comments

  • rm_rm_ IPv6 Advocate, Veteran

    @Lee said: makes no difference if someone makes a comparable ARM SoC, it won't be in Apple devices so not going to make anything Apple does 'less special'

    Thing that makes it special is not that it's in Apple devices, but 400 GB/sec memory bandwidth, for one. Compared to the typical 25 GB/sec bandwidth on PC DDR4.

  • PUSHR_VictorPUSHR_Victor Member, Host Rep

    With these ARM chips I am honestly not sure why there would be anyone who would not be an Apple fanboy. I myself use Ubuntu on my office computer but am now thinking of phasing it out completely in favour of my Air M1. And at the price tag that I bought it (roughly $990 after VAT deduction) there is absolutely nothing out there that could beat this macbook in battery life, build quality and performance. It's just so much value for the money that it's very hard not to like it. I did look at a few other options with the same price tag and they just suck big time. I guess the new chips will be even more stunning, but at that point it is pointless to upgrade to anything for me. This Air will be good for a very, very long time.

    Thanked by 3Lee vimalware Degelta
  • LeeLee Veteran

    @PUSHR_Victor said: This Air will be good for a very, very long time.

    Definitely. Don't get me wrong the new MBPs are incredible but the M1 MBA remains amazing for a device with such long battery life and overall performance.

    I have been asked a lot by people considering upgrading and for the most part, I have been hell no, keep your M1 MBA or MBP, it will serve you well for years to come. By the time you are ready to upgrade there will be significantly better devices available on Apple Silicon.

    Thanked by 2PUSHR_Victor vimalware
  • lanefulanefu Member

    @PUSHR_Victor said:
    This Air will be good for a very, very long time.

    The base model Air is a screaming deal for what you get. And will last normies a long time.

    Thanked by 1vimalware
  • devpdevp Member

    @rm_ said:

    @deank said: Dream on, @_rm. Apple would rather watch Earth be destroyed than do that.

    On one hand you're right, but on the other, they could ask Intel and AMD if there are margins to be had in being a CPU vendor (especially Intel).

    I guess right now it is complicated by the supply issues, but if that gets sorted out, surely they could ramp up the production of these to make way more than they could ever sell Macs.

    Either that, or someone will catch up and make a comparable ARM SoC (nVidia?), and it won't be as special and sought-after anymore.

    .

    @ehhthing said: Apple's chip engineering team is years ahead

    @rm_ @ehhthing @Arkas @Lee @lentro @webcraft @Andrews

    Articles:

  • vyas11vyas11 Member
    edited October 2021

    @Lee said:

    @PUSHR_Victor said: This Air will be good for a very, very long time.

    Definitely. Don't get me wrong the new MBPs are incredible but the M1 MBA remains amazing for a device with such long battery life and overall performance.

    I have been asked a lot by people considering upgrading and for the most part, I have been hell no, keep your M1 MBA or MBP, it will serve you well for years to come. By the time you are ready to upgrade there will be significantly better devices available on Apple Silicon.

    I concur. Both on value and longeivity.

    The Intel MBPs last atleast 10 years*. One can expect similar timelines for the M1 chip based - though with everything so tightly integrated, not sure if "failure of one means replacement of all" principle would apply.

    Reg. OSX, the tl;dr version.

    for those interested
    Mac OS support cycles are rather long (7 or 8 years) but now reducing. TCO wise, in spite of high up front costs, works out cheaper over this horizon. Provided one is in geographies with stable inflation rates/ mid- single digit interest rates.

    e.g. last OS Support for Late 2012 MBP was Catalina
    last OS support for Early 2015 MBP is Monterey : https://www.apple.com/macos/monterey/

    Note: This table seems to refute the second statement. Of course the site is for a seller who sells Mac Parts.
    https://eshop.macsales.com/guides/Mac_OS_X_Compatibility

    Many discussions post the following logic:

    The current version of OS X (obviously) gets updates to address security issues and bugs
The previous version of OS X also gets security updates and might get some bug fixes
The previous - previous version also gets security updates and is unlikely to get bug fixes
Older versions are unlikely to get security updates and will not get bug fixes

    Also read:
    https://discussions.apple.com/thread/7655558

    https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201686 (not updated for Big Sur and Monterey)

    *(for most part, I have had speakers fail and of course had to replace batteries, and / or upgrade storage).

  • LeeLee Veteran

    @vyas11 said: though with everything so tightly integrated, not sure if "failure of one means replacement of all" principle would apply.

    It is certainly going to mean that when it comes to out of warranty repairs there will be less chance of independent repairs and the only option will be Apple. Although I don't think it really changes the position that much from today.

  • vyas11vyas11 Member

    @Lee said:

    @vyas11 said: though with everything so tightly integrated, not sure if "failure of one means replacement of all" principle would apply.

    It is certainly going to mean that when it comes to out of warranty repairs there will be less chance of independent repairs and the only option will be Apple. Although I don't think it really changes the position that much from today.

    Note to self: opt for extended warranty while buying

  • AndrewsAndrews Member

    @vyas11 said:
    The Intel MBPs last atleast 10 years*.

    yes, that was so far

    but I think, that now Intel based macs will be retired much much sooner because monumental gap (in performance, battery life, thermals, acoustics... generally customer experience) between them and new Arm based macs

  • vyas11vyas11 Member

    @Andrews said:

    @vyas11 said:
    The Intel MBPs last atleast 10 years*.

    yes, that was so far

    but I think, that now Intel based macs will be retired much much sooner because monumental gap (in performance, battery life, thermals, acoustics... generally customer experience) between them and new Arm based macs

    For Intel machines…

    I think particularly for academic and corporate customers they may have to continue supporting because of base effect. Technically they sold Intel ones even in 2021…

    Most averse users may not care about updates as long as “everything just works”

    Then there are those who would buy the used Intel MBPs just for the hardware and run Windows/ Linux.

    Possibilities are quite interesting .

  • AndrewsAndrews Member
    edited October 2021

    @vyas11 said:

    @Andrews said:

    @vyas11 said:
    The Intel MBPs last atleast 10 years*.

    yes, that was so far

    but I think, that now Intel based macs will be retired much much sooner because monumental gap (in performance, battery life, thermals, acoustics... generally customer experience) between them and new Arm based macs

    For Intel machines…

    I think particularly for academic and corporate customers they may have to continue supporting because of base effect. Technically they sold Intel ones even in 2021…

    Most averse users may not care about updates as long as “everything just works”

    Then there are those who would buy the used Intel MBPs just for the hardware and run Windows/ Linux.

    Possibilities are quite interesting .

    by retiring I meant replacing by users for new generation devices, not that Apple will suddenly to stop supporting them

    anybody who experience passively cooled M1 mac (no fan, no noise, no excessive heat) with 20h battery time will not want to use sub performance Intel mobile oven anymore

    of course, these Intel based macs will not disappear, they will find their use cases... in poor communities :D

    Thanked by 1vyas11
  • raindog308raindog308 Administrator, Veteran

    @nvme said: Missing touch bar on new macs

    But that was supposed to be so mind-blowingly innovative!

    @rm_ said: where you could install GNU/Linux or any other supporting OS of your choice.

    OpenBSD 7.0 has preliminary support for M1.

    @jenkki said: Who even use Apple hardware?

    Me. They're the only decent desktop OS. macOS is the driver for me, not the hardware per-se, though I find the hardware fine.

    • Windows is not Unix-based (and has so many poor design decisions), so not interested.
    • Linux is not polished enough (LOL...by several orders of magnitude) and doesn't support enough commercial software I use daily.

    Apple hardware also lasts for ages and in general "just works". Add in the ecosystem integration and it's a no-brainer.

    @Andrews said: it is like expecting that AWS would like to talk with cociu about buying his fallen "brand" and customers base

    You win the Internet today :D

    Thanked by 1bulbasaur
  • ehhthingehhthing Member

    @devp said:

    @rm_ said:

    @deank said: Dream on, @_rm. Apple would rather watch Earth be destroyed than do that.

    On one hand you're right, but on the other, they could ask Intel and AMD if there are margins to be had in being a CPU vendor (especially Intel).

    I guess right now it is complicated by the supply issues, but if that gets sorted out, surely they could ramp up the production of these to make way more than they could ever sell Macs.

    Either that, or someone will catch up and make a comparable ARM SoC (nVidia?), and it won't be as special and sought-after anymore.

    .

    @ehhthing said: Apple's chip engineering team is years ahead

    @rm_ @ehhthing @Arkas @Lee @lentro @webcraft @Andrews

    Articles:

    Its funny you mention Qualcomm because last time I checked, their top performing chips (for both phones and laptops) score in the 3000s in Geekbench 5 while the M1 is in the 7000s.

    You put the IBM PC on the list, but the IBM PC was entering a market where a new CPU architecture was created literally every year. You could sensibly create a new CPU architecture and have people switch to it. This no longer holds true. Right now nearly every desktop and laptop computer is on x86.

    Our expectations have changed from the 80s. We expect that if we get a new computer, the programs on our old computer should work just as well if not better.

    Apple has made this a reality for M1. Microsoft tried and failed for ARM Windows.

    What else is there to say?

    I have no idea why you put "Quantum computing" because that is another domain entirely.

  • raindog308raindog308 Administrator, Veteran

    @ehhthing said: Right now nearly every desktop and laptop computer is on x86.

    There's a growing ARM market - e.g., Raspberry Pi. Not sure how many are used for daily-driver desktops or laptops though. Certainly not outside of hobbyist circles.

    Thanked by 2devp bulbasaur
  • vyas11vyas11 Member

    M2 chips in Macbook Air

    https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/2022-macbook-air-rumors-non-tapered-design-with-notched-mini-led-display-magsafe-m2-chip-and-more.2318209/

    Thanked by 2Andrews vimalware
  • PUSHR_VictorPUSHR_Victor Member, Host Rep

    @raindog308 said: Apple hardware also lasts for ages and in general "just works".

    This.
    I had my mid-2011 Air fail on me a few months ago. It just stopped charging and I dumped it. But I have the suspicion that it may actually be the charger itself and I'd not be surprised of the computer itself is fine. This laptop was on it's third battery, dropped a dozen times on anything from soft floors to concrete and once on the wet bathroom floor, destroyed screen because I once used the wrongest possible cleaning liquid for it and was still working faster than what I really needed. This thing is 10 years old today. I should definitely go get a charger for it to see if it will boot again.

    Thanked by 3devp equalz bulbasaur
  • vyas11vyas11 Member
    edited October 2021

    @PUSHR_Victor said:

    @raindog308 said: Apple hardware also lasts for ages and in general "just works".

    This.
    I had my mid-2011 Air fail on me a few months ago. It just stopped charging and I dumped it. But I have the suspicion that it may actually be the charger itself and I'd not be surprised of the computer itself is fine. This laptop was on it's third battery, dropped a dozen times on anything from soft floors to concrete and once on the wet bathroom floor, destroyed screen because I once used the wrongest possible cleaning liquid for it and was still working faster than what I really needed. This thing is 10 years old today. I should definitely go get a charger for it to see if it will boot again.

    Your MBA has had an interesting life!
    Have you made any upgrade to the ssd?

    Reg. new charger- you may want to try out a couple of different ones- I ordered a new charger for my older MBP - it would heat up so much that I almost burnt my hand. Replacement arrived the same day, seems to do a little better.

  • devpdevp Member

    @ehhthing said:

    @devp said:

    @rm_ said:

    @deank said: Dream on, @_rm. Apple would rather watch Earth be destroyed than do that.

    On one hand you're right, but on the other, they could ask Intel and AMD if there are margins to be had in being a CPU vendor (especially Intel).

    I guess right now it is complicated by the supply issues, but if that gets sorted out, surely they could ramp up the production of these to make way more than they could ever sell Macs.

    Either that, or someone will catch up and make a comparable ARM SoC (nVidia?), and it won't be as special and sought-after anymore.

    .

    @ehhthing said: Apple's chip engineering team is years ahead

    @rm_ @ehhthing @Arkas @Lee @lentro @webcraft @Andrews

    Articles:

    Its funny you mention Qualcomm because last time I checked, their top performing chips (for both phones and laptops) score in the 3000s in Geekbench 5 while the M1 is in the 7000s.

    You put the IBM PC on the list, but the IBM PC was entering a market where a new CPU architecture was created literally every year. You could sensibly create a new CPU architecture and have people switch to it. This no longer holds true. Right now nearly every desktop and laptop computer is on x86.

    Our expectations have changed from the 80s. We expect that if we get a new computer, the programs on our old computer should work just as well if not better.

    Apple has made this a reality for M1. Microsoft tried and failed for ARM Windows.

    What else is there to say?

    I have no idea why you put "Quantum computing" because that is another domain entirely.

    .

    @raindog308 said: There's a growing ARM market - e.g., Raspberry Pi. Not sure how many are used for daily-driver desktops or laptops though. Certainly not outside of hobbyist circles.

    Reference links related to ARM servers:

    Thanked by 1vimalware
  • AndrewsAndrews Member
    edited October 2021

    we need more links

    all kinds, CPUs, computers, motherboards, human evolution, wheel invention, fire, wars, medicine... etc.

    more, more, more

    Thanked by 3lanefu bulbasaur webcraft
  • ehhthingehhthing Member
    edited October 2021

    @devp said:

    @ehhthing said:

    @devp said:

    @rm_ said:

    @deank said: Dream on, @_rm. Apple would rather watch Earth be destroyed than do that.

    On one hand you're right, but on the other, they could ask Intel and AMD if there are margins to be had in being a CPU vendor (especially Intel).

    I guess right now it is complicated by the supply issues, but if that gets sorted out, surely they could ramp up the production of these to make way more than they could ever sell Macs.

    Either that, or someone will catch up and make a comparable ARM SoC (nVidia?), and it won't be as special and sought-after anymore.

    .

    @ehhthing said: Apple's chip engineering team is years ahead

    @rm_ @ehhthing @Arkas @Lee @lentro @webcraft @Andrews

    Articles:

    Its funny you mention Qualcomm because last time I checked, their top performing chips (for both phones and laptops) score in the 3000s in Geekbench 5 while the M1 is in the 7000s.

    You put the IBM PC on the list, but the IBM PC was entering a market where a new CPU architecture was created literally every year. You could sensibly create a new CPU architecture and have people switch to it. This no longer holds true. Right now nearly every desktop and laptop computer is on x86.

    Our expectations have changed from the 80s. We expect that if we get a new computer, the programs on our old computer should work just as well if not better.

    Apple has made this a reality for M1. Microsoft tried and failed for ARM Windows.

    What else is there to say?

    I have no idea why you put "Quantum computing" because that is another domain entirely.

    .

    @raindog308 said: There's a growing ARM market - e.g., Raspberry Pi. Not sure how many are used for daily-driver desktops or laptops though. Certainly not outside of hobbyist circles.

    Reference links related to ARM servers:

    ...

    but as of this moment the lack of availability of high performance consumer grade ARM based CPUs

  • devpdevp Member

    @ehhthing said:

    @devp said:

    @ehhthing said:

    @devp said:

    @rm_ said:

    @deank said: Dream on, @_rm. Apple would rather watch Earth be destroyed than do that.

    On one hand you're right, but on the other, they could ask Intel and AMD if there are margins to be had in being a CPU vendor (especially Intel).

    I guess right now it is complicated by the supply issues, but if that gets sorted out, surely they could ramp up the production of these to make way more than they could ever sell Macs.

    Either that, or someone will catch up and make a comparable ARM SoC (nVidia?), and it won't be as special and sought-after anymore.

    .

    @ehhthing said: Apple's chip engineering team is years ahead

    @rm_ @ehhthing @Arkas @Lee @lentro @webcraft @Andrews

    Articles:

    Its funny you mention Qualcomm because last time I checked, their top performing chips (for both phones and laptops) score in the 3000s in Geekbench 5 while the M1 is in the 7000s.

    You put the IBM PC on the list, but the IBM PC was entering a market where a new CPU architecture was created literally every year. You could sensibly create a new CPU architecture and have people switch to it. This no longer holds true. Right now nearly every desktop and laptop computer is on x86.

    Our expectations have changed from the 80s. We expect that if we get a new computer, the programs on our old computer should work just as well if not better.

    Apple has made this a reality for M1. Microsoft tried and failed for ARM Windows.

    What else is there to say?

    I have no idea why you put "Quantum computing" because that is another domain entirely.

    .

    @raindog308 said: There's a growing ARM market - e.g., Raspberry Pi. Not sure how many are used for daily-driver desktops or laptops though. Certainly not outside of hobbyist circles.

    Reference links related to ARM servers:

    ...

    but as of this moment the lack of availability of high performance consumer grade ARM based CPUs

    An article on Consumer grade ARM Laptops: ARM Consumer Windows Laptop

  • ehhthingehhthing Member

    @devp said:

    @ehhthing said:

    @devp said:

    @ehhthing said:

    @devp said:

    @rm_ said:

    @deank said: Dream on, @_rm. Apple would rather watch Earth be destroyed than do that.

    On one hand you're right, but on the other, they could ask Intel and AMD if there are margins to be had in being a CPU vendor (especially Intel).

    I guess right now it is complicated by the supply issues, but if that gets sorted out, surely they could ramp up the production of these to make way more than they could ever sell Macs.

    Either that, or someone will catch up and make a comparable ARM SoC (nVidia?), and it won't be as special and sought-after anymore.

    .

    @ehhthing said: Apple's chip engineering team is years ahead

    @rm_ @ehhthing @Arkas @Lee @lentro @webcraft @Andrews

    Articles:

    Its funny you mention Qualcomm because last time I checked, their top performing chips (for both phones and laptops) score in the 3000s in Geekbench 5 while the M1 is in the 7000s.

    You put the IBM PC on the list, but the IBM PC was entering a market where a new CPU architecture was created literally every year. You could sensibly create a new CPU architecture and have people switch to it. This no longer holds true. Right now nearly every desktop and laptop computer is on x86.

    Our expectations have changed from the 80s. We expect that if we get a new computer, the programs on our old computer should work just as well if not better.

    Apple has made this a reality for M1. Microsoft tried and failed for ARM Windows.

    What else is there to say?

    I have no idea why you put "Quantum computing" because that is another domain entirely.

    .

    @raindog308 said: There's a growing ARM market - e.g., Raspberry Pi. Not sure how many are used for daily-driver desktops or laptops though. Certainly not outside of hobbyist circles.

    Reference links related to ARM servers:

    ...

    but as of this moment the lack of availability of high performance consumer grade ARM based CPUs

    An article on Consumer grade ARM Laptops: ARM Consumer Windows Laptop

    Yes they're all on the Snapdragon 8cx which ... again ... is about half as fast as the M1...

  • vyas11vyas11 Member

    @vyas11 said:
    M2 chips in Macbook Air

    https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/2022-macbook-air-rumors-non-tapered-design-with-notched-mini-led-display-magsafe-m2-chip-and-more.2318209/

    @PUSHR_Victor if your MB Air can last another 6 or 8 months, the M2 MBA could be a good replacement

    More Rumors/details.

    "MacBook Air specifications and design details have leaked online. Apple is rumoured to launch the next MacBook Air in the middle of 2022. The new leak reveals some key details of the 2022 MacBook Air, suggesting that it will borrow some of the MacBook Pro specifications.

    According to tipster Dylan, who has a reputation for getting Apple-related leaks right, the 2022 MacBook Air will be more or less similar to the MacBook Pro but will feature a thinner body. The Apple laptop is said to sport white bezels around the display and will not have a wedge shape, unlike previous Air models.

    Apple is also said to launch the MacBook Air in multiple colour options, which will be similar to the 24-inch iMac. In that case, one can expect the MacBook Air colours to include shades of Blue, Green, Pink, Silver, Yellow, Orange and Purple.

    While there is no confirmation on the MacBook Air featuring a notch, it will not feature a ProMotion display, according to Dylan. In addition, Apple is also said to not include an SD card slot or an HDMI port in the Air model.

    Other specs revealed include a 1080p webcam, USB Type-C ports and a 30W power adapter. The MacBook Air 2022, much like the current model, will not come with any fans inside."

  • PUSHR_VictorPUSHR_Victor Member, Host Rep

    @vyas11 that's gonna be interesting. If the new Air keeps the lucrative price, I would definitely try to find a way to sell the M1. It's a company computer so it's not as easy to get rid of it on the second hand market because I'm gonna need an invoice.

  • LeeLee Veteran
    edited October 2021

    I would be cautious about leaks nowadays, Tim has started waging a new war on leakers. It has been obvious and even the leakers agree that Apple is starting to put their own fake leaks out there just to confuse and try and track down internal leakers.

  • NanoG6NanoG6 Member

    M1 Pro/Max too pricey for me. Currently using MBP 2020 with 10th Gen i5, 16GB/512GB. No issues so far except the battery.
    Should I "upgrade" to 2020 M1 MBP? I heard the battery last much longer than intel, but it only has 2 USB-C port.
    Or may be should I keep the intel? Sigh..

  • LeeLee Veteran
    edited October 2021

    @NanoG6 said: Should I "upgrade" to 2020 M1 MBP? I heard the battery last much longer than intel

    It definitely does last longer. I can get an 8 am through to 9 pm day without my MBA touching a power cord. It all depends on your usage. But it will still last longer than what you have.

    Only you can decide if it is worth it. If you can live with it for now there is better coming by Spring 2022.

  • NanoG6NanoG6 Member

    @Lee do you think the 2 USB-C ports enough? I often use the port to charge my iPhone. On this pandemic and working from home, there is no need to use dongle for presentation/HDMI, but I don't know, seems like soon we will be back to work from the office.
    And oh, does the per core performance really improved compared to 10th gen i5?

  • vyas11vyas11 Member

    ?

    461-B3-EE9-FDE5-492-D-9-D74-518-C78-C4893-F

    @NanoG6 said:
    @Lee do you think the 2 USB-C ports enough? I often use the port to charge my iPhone. On this pandemic and working from home, there is no need to use dongle for presentation/HDMI, but I don't know, seems like soon we will be back to work from the office.
    And oh, does the per core performance really improved compared to 10th gen i5?

    Thanked by 1Lee
  • LeeLee Veteran

    @NanoG6 said: do you think the 2 USB-C ports enough?

    I generally find 2 is enough for most of the time, as @vyas11 points out above a dongle is your backup and it's really not a case of 'dongle hell' that everyone goes on about. Really depends on your needs. Dongles are cheap, I prefer the device to remain thin and light.

    @NanoG6 said: And oh, does the per core performance really improved compared to 10th gen i5?

    Yes, I think so, I mean it's not 2x better performance but the benchmarks show it is better. Add to that you no longer see the device hitting such high temps as the intel devices so with the M1 you are not losing additional performance as a result of throttling.

    Thanked by 2vyas11 NanoG6
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