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The IPv6 outage thread - September edition - Page 2
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The IPv6 outage thread - September edition

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Comments

  • @Andrews said:
    so I'd like to be able toast: long live for our new "Server Reviewer Reviewer King" @stevewatson301

    FTFY

  • FranciscoFrancisco Top Host, Host Rep, Veteran

    @TimboJones said:

    @Francisco said:

    @rcy026 said: The problem is not with IPv6, the problem is with providers that can not or will not provide it properly. The death of IP4 would force those providers to step up their game and sort out the ones that can't deliver, so I think it is a reasonable thing to hope for.

    Keep dreaming.

    The big clouds/etc are betting against it. AWS has bought close to 1.5M IP's this month alone.

    Francisco

    Without knowing how often they've previously purchased, you can't draw that conclusion.e.g., they have been buying 2+M per months for previous decade... (I have no idea, just sayin' it could be a significant drop and actually mean the opposite of what you said). And also what their actual usage numbers are. They have growth expectations and years of planning to ensure they don't get stuck short and lose business to competition.

    https://www.techradar.com/news/amazon-has-hoarded-billions-of-dollars-worth-of-ipv4-but-why

    Amazon bought a fuckin' /8 in 2017.

    They've been hard buying since then at the very least.

    They own the 2 /9's that make up GE's old /8. This month alone Amazon has picked up:

    40.176.0.0/14 (256k IP's)
    40.180.0.0/16 (65k IP's)
    13.184.0.0/13 (512K IP's)
    13.192.0.0/13 (512K IP's)

    OVH also bought:

    15.235.0.0-15.235.255.255

    Francisco

  • @jsg said:

    And your POV (like many IPv6 proponents) simply is "accept it or die!"? - what a poor attitude.

    That has never been my POV. And I'm not even a IPv6 proponent. I've been extremely sceptical to IPv6 since the beginning, and there are lots of things I would have done differently.
    But fact remains, IPv6 is the only alternative I have ever seen that has even a remote chance of replacing IP4. Refusing to use it leads absolutely nowhere, unless you have a better alternative. And lets face it, you dont! I know you have a lot of suggestions about how you would like to see it implemented, but so so far I have not seen any software or hardware that supports your versions. Not even a POC. Give me a router with your version of whatever IP you think solves todays situation, and I will gladly put it to the test. If it works as well as IPv6, you have my word that I will from now on never advocate IPv6 again and instead advocate your solution.
    IPv6 on the other hand has massive support, basically all modern software and hardware supports it, and it is already widely implemented and has proven itself to work very well.
    So the way I see it, I have two choices. Go with IPv6, that has massive support and is already widely supported, or do like jsg and dig my heels down and refuse to use it and stay in status quo with no progress at all.

  • 007sascha007sascha Member
    edited October 2021

    The change from IPv4 to IPv6 is like the climate change. We have a better solutions and we know that we must change something, but most wouldn't like to change it because they are to lazy. I still whish the dead of IPv4 but I also know that it is not done in short time. My ISP is still not able to provide DualStack at all for business customers. So I have to work with tunnel and externan IPv6 Gateways.
    Also not all new IoT or OT-Devices still know Ipv6. It is like shitting behind a tree and don't use a toilett because it works. Most services have switched to cloud-based services in a very short time, why is it not possible with IPv6?

  • jsgjsg Member, Resident Benchmarker

    @007sascha said:
    ... I still whish the dead of IPv4 ...

    Yet another one wishing the death of IP4. Why? Is IPv6 even crappier a "solution" than I think, is IPv6 so bloody crappy that its only way to "victory" is the death of its predecessor? What about all the "IPv6 is so great", "IPv6 will bring us freedom and urgently needed breathing space" stories?

    Two decades have passed since IPv6 pronounced "total victory very soon (TM)".
    Two decades have passed since we were told that we absolutely need IPv6.
    And two decades have passed with people trying hard to keep IP4 alive - successfully so far.

    There's a clear and simple lesson: give us a solution that is just like IP4 but with a larger, but not insanely oversized, address space and a few, the fewer the better, really needed and well implemented changes!

  • yoursunnyyoursunny Member, IPv6 Advocate

    @jsg said:
    There's a clear and simple lesson: give us a solution that is just like IP4 but with a larger, but not insanely oversized, address space and a few, the fewer the better, really needed and well implemented changes!

    When would we see 64-bit addressing jsgnet implemented in:

    • Linux kernel
    • FreeBSD kernel
    • Data Plane Development Kit
    • VPP

    ?

    Thanked by 3bulbasaur adly skorous
  • jsgjsg Member, Resident Benchmarker
    edited October 2021

    @yoursunny said:

    @jsg said:
    There's a clear and simple lesson: give us a solution that is just like IP4 but with a larger, but not insanely oversized, address space and a few, the fewer the better, really needed and well implemented changes!

    When would we see 64-bit addressing jsgnet implemented in:

    • Linux kernel
    • FreeBSD kernel
    • Data Plane Development Kit
    • VPP

    ?

    Give me one quarter of the budget wasted on IPv6 and it will be delivered in +-3 years (modulo committee bureaucracy obviously, but frankly, after seeing their IPv6 "work" I guess we can well without them).

    Btw, when will there be a yoursunny university and a yoursunny city and a yoursunny power station? Just asking because it seems that you link "building it" to "entitled to talk about it".

  • HarambeHarambe Member, Host Rep

    The answer is clearly IPv4+ - v6 is dead, get over it people.

  • jsgjsg Member, Resident Benchmarker
    edited October 2021

    @Harambe said:
    The answer is clearly IPv4+ - v6 is dead, get over it people.

    Nice name btw. IPv4+ says it well. Unfortunately the linked site is by a retarded coconut (his term).

  • HarambeHarambe Member, Host Rep

    @jsg said:

    @Harambe said:
    The answer is clearly IPv4+ - v6 is dead, get over it people.

    Nice name btw. IPv4+ says it well. Unfortunately the linked site is by a retarded coconut (his term).

    Wait.. Elad, is that you?

  • bulbasaurbulbasaur Member
    edited October 2021

    @jsg said:

    @yoursunny said:

    @jsg said:
    There's a clear and simple lesson: give us a solution that is just like IP4 but with a larger, but not insanely oversized, address space and a few, the fewer the better, really needed and well implemented changes!

    When would we see 64-bit addressing jsgnet implemented in:

    • Linux kernel
    • FreeBSD kernel
    • Data Plane Development Kit
    • VPP

    ?

    Give me one quarter of the budget wasted on IPv6 and it will be delivered in +-3 years (modulo committee bureaucracy obviously, but frankly, after seeing their IPv6 "work" I guess we can well without them).

    Btw, when will there be a yoursunny university and a yoursunny city and a yoursunny power station? Just asking because it seems that you link "building it" to "entitled to talk about it".

    Sorry to break it to you, but unlike you who can put forward empty statements, @yoursunny already has written NDN implementations! Go watch his pushups, it's already live and working.

    Also, I'm not sure why addressing is the only thing you keep bringing up? IPv6 is a different protocol for which not only the addressing is different, but it has a host of different concepts and your existing code is not gonna work. Changes are a fact of life, and changing situations require changing responses, or in this case, internet protocols.

  • jsgjsg Member, Resident Benchmarker

    @stevewatson301 said:

    Btw, when will there be a yoursunny university and a yoursunny city and a yoursunny power station? Just asking because it seems that you link "building it" to "entitled to talk about it".

    Sorry to break it to you, but unlike you who can put forward empty statements, @yoursunny already has written NDN implementations! Go watch his pushups, it's already live and working.

    As if you had the slightest idea of what I've worked on. Plus: so, having done some work with IPv6, any work, is the decisive qualification? Great, because then millions of programmers of all sorts do have that qualification, too.

    Also, I'm not sure why addressing is the only thing you keep bringing up? IPv6 is a different protocol for which not only the addressing is different, but it has a host of different concepts and your existing code is not gonna work. Changes are a fact of life, and changing situations require changing responses, or in this case, internet protocols.

    Because address space is THE problem to be solved. That's why.

  • bulbasaurbulbasaur Member
    edited October 2021

    @jsg said: As if you had the slightest idea of what I've worked on

    The one thing that I looked at didn't inspire any confidence in your computer science and programming abilities. Though, it did reaffirm your talent in essay writing and conducting dick measuring contests.

    @jsg said: Because address space is THE problem to be solved.

    Actual research (go and read the RFCs and the motivations behind the design of IPv6) doesn't tell us that "address space" is the only problem to be solved.

  • jsgjsg Member, Resident Benchmarker

    @stevewatson301 said:

    @jsg said: As if you had the slightest idea of what I've worked on

    The one thing that I looked at didn't inspire any confidence in your computer science and programming abilities. Though, it did reaffirm your talent in essay writing and conducting dick measuring contests.

    As if I did care, at all, about your confidence. And btw, I didn't even speak about myself but I spoke of, I quote, "Great, because then millions of programmers of all sorts do have that qualification, too."

    @jsg said: Because address space is THE problem to be solved.

    Actual research (go and read the RFCs and the motivations behind the design of IPv6) doesn't tell us that "address space" is the only problem to be solved.

    IF the IPv6 people were the ones whose definition of what the problem is is decisive, that might be relevant. They are not though.

  • @007sascha said: Most services have switched to cloud-based services in a very short time, why is it not possible with IPv6?

    Smaller ISPs would have to possibly upgrade their infrastructure to support IPv6. A lot of older and cheaper networking L3 switches can't do IPv6 routing, and then, they need to potentially get training on IPv6/have to lock everything down in preparation for IPv6.

    Thanked by 1bulbasaur
  • skorupionskorupion Member, Host Rep

    @tinyweasel said:

    @007sascha said: Most services have switched to cloud-based services in a very short time, why is it not possible with IPv6?

    Smaller ISPs would have to possibly upgrade their infrastructure to support IPv6. A lot of older and cheaper networking L3 switches can't do IPv6 routing, and then, they need to potentially get training on IPv6/have to lock everything down in preparation for IPv6.

    too bad they didn't future proof themselves

  • avelineaveline Member, Patron Provider

    If you really want IPv6, try us :-)

    • Native IPv6 support in all regions
    • /64 subnet and RDNS
    • Automated BGP Session ($15 one-time setup fee per ASN)
  • Shot2Shot2 Member
    edited October 2021

    +1 for Servarica providing reliable v6 service.

    @yoursunny said:

    @mcgree said:
    BuyVM has the best IPv6 experience, many providers don't provide Routed Prefix by default

    Webhosting24 @tomazu has routed prefix too, and it's a service I can actually afford (€10/year for 1GB).


    Routed IPv6 Hall of Fame

    • TunnelBroker
    • BuyVM
    • GINERNET
    • Terrahost
    • webhosting24
    • Zappie Host
    • QuickPacket
    • Central Server Solutions
    • Linode

    Include routed IPv6, at least /64 subnet, to get listed.

    • Online.net - for almost a decade now (and yet their way with IPv6 remains a bit, hmmm, otherworldly)
    Thanked by 1servarica_hani
  • @jsg said:

    @007sascha said:
    Great overview, thanks a lot. Let IPv4 die as fast as possible o:)

    Yeah right because, as this very thread shows, IPv6 works so great and reliably...

    Don't get me wrong, I think that if a provider does offer IPv6 then they should do it properly and offer good reliability. But calling for the death of IP4 in a thread whose very topic is (at least in part) lack of reliability and proper function of IPv6 is a bit weird.

    Or maybe lack of interest from some providers/upstream to get their shit working as intended.
    I don't see why IPv6 should fail more than IPv4.

  • 🔻 @VPSSLIM - I don't know if this counts as an outage because I never really had any native IPv6 connectivity within my server.
    Even if it was advertised with a /64 block and they still advertise their products as IPv6-ready. My ticket has been sitting there for months awaiting a response after many "should be ready by this weekend".

  • @Pixels said:

    @jsg said:

    @007sascha said:
    Great overview, thanks a lot. Let IPv4 die as fast as possible o:)

    Yeah right because, as this very thread shows, IPv6 works so great and reliably...

    Don't get me wrong, I think that if a provider does offer IPv6 then they should do it properly and offer good reliability. But calling for the death of IP4 in a thread whose very topic is (at least in part) lack of reliability and proper function of IPv6 is a bit weird.

    Or maybe lack of interest from some providers/upstream to get their shit working as intended.
    I don't see why IPv6 should fail more than IPv4.

    Years and years of implementing fixes and failovers for IPV4 to make it robust now need to be expanded to IPv6.

  • @TimboJones said:

    @Pixels said:

    @jsg said:

    @007sascha said:
    Great overview, thanks a lot. Let IPv4 die as fast as possible o:)

    Yeah right because, as this very thread shows, IPv6 works so great and reliably...

    Don't get me wrong, I think that if a provider does offer IPv6 then they should do it properly and offer good reliability. But calling for the death of IP4 in a thread whose very topic is (at least in part) lack of reliability and proper function of IPv6 is a bit weird.

    Or maybe lack of interest from some providers/upstream to get their shit working as intended.
    I don't see why IPv6 should fail more than IPv4.

    Years and years of implementing fixes and failovers for IPV4 to make it robust now need to be expanded to IPv6.

    Let's just hope NAT66 is not one of them.

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