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@jar
We can discuss all day long and shift and bend perspectives but that doesn't change the fact that crypto "money" is but ones and zeroes.
Money must reflect some real and tangible value, period. That is its definition and its purpose.
All the problems around money basically come from one source: idiocy, greed, and generally the human nature. That allowed the creation of banks, exchanges, etc. And those people who abused, bent, and played the fin. system and the traditional currencies are certainly not taking off for a sailing trip now; they'll do and have already done with crypto currencies what they did in the "old" system too.
As for your "democracy will make things better": uhm, you have watched the news lately, right? If I were an American I would be quiet right now and think really hard about the system I live in and question a lot. (not that it's that much better over here in Europe ...)
And most important for me: "security". Those people (crypto currency crowd) talks a whole lot about "proofs", so much in fact, that 'proof' has become an inflationary and meaningless term. Except for one kind of proof - and the only relevant one: real and formal proof of correctness of their algorithms and their code.
Sorry, for me they are but unprofessional coders (if that) and I'll end by naming the true source of the "value" of crap coins: the fact that there is an immense pool of people who are clueless but greedy.
Regardless of what you all say, all exchanges of goods and services with crypto value crypto against USD. That makes crypto a failure of a currency and simply a commodity.
Can you imagine business owners putting a price tag of cryptocurrency on their products?
Anyway, @jsg fiat currency is ones and zeroes too since most of the world's money is not in paper notes but data in banking systems. But I consider the soverignty of a country as the main proof behind the value of their currency. Proof of whatever in crypto just doesn't cut it. We would be better off transacting in terms of gold rather than crypto tbh if you all hate fiat that much.
Yes and no. Real currencies must not be confused with what they became. The US$ for example is not per se (as a currency) just zeroes and ones. It only became that due to the pervert manipulations of politicians and bankers (e.g. pure fiat, no real back up e.g. by gold).
As for
my response, as much as I dislike it, is "Yes, I can". Simple reason: the "modern" definition of 'value': if you find idiots people seeing value in it then it will be (increasingly) treated as if it had value. Plus, of course, most businesses don't care; as long as they can turn it into a plus in their books/bank they'll take it. And you even must not look far, you can see it here on LET; providers increasingly accept crap-coin.
I'm afraid the whole currency thing is a completely f_cked up sad story, first perverted (and turned against "we, the people") via fiat, "floating", etc. and now crypto-crap is a further extension to the ugly game. And many swallow it because, you know, "finally democracy in money" bla bla.
Actually no, these providers list a price in fiat and the spot rate of crypto is calculated. If crypto was stable enough for people to confidently list a fixed price eg. 1 btc for one loaf of bread or a vps, ironically, crypto would lose much of its current value as an "investment".
The value in crypto is mostly in illegal stuff and the "investment opportunity". It has to be stable to be adopted as a serious currency.
Also, I think people are being somewhat missing the point here. Noone doubts that crypto is worth $$ now. Noone doubts that you can make money off altcoins like doge. But there is not much future in crypto as a currency.
I would love to read your questions about life.
I don’t disagree but that’s getting a bit off topic and if that’s where I draw a hard line, I have no choice but to starve in an alley in protest. Usable currency hasn’t been backed by tangible assets where I live since 1971, and much of the rest of the world finds themselves tied to the same currency I’m referencing. We all saw just how much they relied on it in 2008. It’s backed by some government guarantees but they still can’t even figure out how to function like normal adults so I wouldn’t put much faith in that. Plus whatever guarantee they can offer is based on my own money anyway.
If you’re willing to trade in the stock market, the volatility of crypto is quite similar, and frankly above a certain point the stock market isn’t any more backed by tangible assets but rather the whims of a few big day traders. To consider one more stable, secure, or trustworthy than the other just doesn’t track. And to ignore opportunity in protest would be like holding a protest in your backyard where no one can see or care. Opportunity from currency not backed by physical items is there, I’m already sitting on tangible benefits from it. Doesn’t do much good to try to convince me that my taco wasn’t real when my toilet knows the facts.
I can spend fake money at the grocery store, I can’t walk in with a stack of gold and use it. So the value of fake currency in my life, the real world, is present and accounted for. It isn’t merely theoretical. We can dislike that, but we can’t just ignore it on principle.
You all miss the point anyway - No matter if you have USD, EUR, BTC or tangible assets, once i come with my AK i just take everything
Currency and related is worthless all around if you can't defend it from others.
I’m counting on your help when I execute my end game plan:
To find the most lawless corner of the earth, build a compound, and defend it. I’m willing to share the warlord title.
It’ll be like a cult only we don’t touch kids and we worship burritos.
No need to discuss how crappy fiat money is. It seems we agree on that.
... or you die because with some people your approach with a gun just translates to "shoot me!".
But anyway, we are not talking doomsday scenarios here I guess.
If we will also worship cats I'm in.
The real question over this weekend is when to sell. Best of luck to you all. Turn tulips into lambos!
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulip_mania
I've had a 1500% gain from ETC in 3 months lol
Copper's value and utility at any given time and place is as variable as anything else. Construction companies can prefer pex for water pipes, telcos can switch lines to fiber and have an excess of copper to sell. Electronics companies may need only small quantities of it, and probably not anywhere near you. Can you get your copper over to someone who needs it for less than the price to transport it? If not, it is nearly worthless.
Copper seems to have a solid future in electricity transmission, but if aluminum, silver, or some type of high temperature superconducting material gets cheaper, it could potentially leave copper unwanted there, and even flood the market with huge amounts of cheap copper, too.
Even in a post-apocalyptic sense, sure you can make bronze tools out of your copper, but that's not very valuable if steel remains easy to acquire.
Actually, PCB costs are rising right now because copper is in high demand.
This global semiconductor shortage is killing lots of products and projects with 52 week lead times for lots of parts.
Shiba Inu is going crazy!
https://www.coinbase.com/price/shiba-inu
52? Try 70+ for some 10c Mosfets. I see some diodes (eg. specific medium voltage Schottky ones for automotive) at nearly 100 by now.
Sold at $0.71. Tripled what I put in, not a bad day.
Are you going to buy back in in 15 minutes when it’s back to $0.25?
I shorted almost every commerical break and made bank.
I missed 2 waves (2013, 2017): https://www.lowendtalk.com/discussion/comment/2393651#Comment_2393651
It is difficult to invest when you are a student.
But I decided it was a chance. I bought coins for 2018-2020 from free money. I made $ 500,000 on crypto. It's strange that hosters don't store their bitcoins. Many people pay for services with cryptocurrencies.
If I invested all the free money during this period in Dogecoin, it would be $ 15 million xD
When everything is red, you need to stock up on coins for all your free money. Bitcoin will be divided 3 times more globally, there will be 3 more attempts to multiply investments and deposits. It will be funny to read this in the future if that happens.
I sold 5000 BTC in 2011 at less than 8EUR each. I don't cry after them. Their value now nearly exceeds my entire families fortune.
I still have an encrypted wallet with over 1000 BTC - don't remember password. Don't cry for them either.
I don't believe in crypto, but as capitalist the gain would have been nice.
EDIT: The Austrian gov also still has 350+ BTC from me that i will never see back (confiscated in a case of money laundry i was ultimately convicted in). They will cover tax debt at some point, if there is any profit left they will pay me out.
EDIT2: They actually cover my debt and fines now, exceeding it by a few hundred k EUR - The wallet was emptied at near zero profit, so i guess my debt is paid. I illegally left Austria and hide here (can't be extradited, married to a local) so i don't know. Maybe i call and ask some day.
My family has a compound in the Negev desert. We are many steps ahead.
Think I'm gonna rest on it haha. I'm liking this now to relax on: https://www.titanvest.com
Watching SNL last night was the first time I enjoyed it in years. Maybe Musk's comedy/persona is just naturally funny to me, but I thought it was great.
For me, I’m happy. I bought in when doge was at 0.003 a coin. It’s now 0.533. That’s a huge return. By comparison I’ve usually only doubled my value when it comes to ETH, LTC and BTC. Yes, crypto is risky, but it’s the modern day stock.
My approach has always been to buy in. Wait for it to double in value and sell half back. Now you have your cash back and everything going forward is profit.
This will be fun.
Decentralized currency that doesn’t depend on a bank or a country or it’s inflation.
Sure, blockchain is one solution, not all solutions. It’s ‘A’ solution to a problem.
No, it has value because it is mandated by governments to represent an exchange for value. It has nothing to do with us as consumers of currency.
Why does this matter? Some do and some don’t, just like real people.
This also isn’t a yes or no question. Generally, most want regulated finance systems with flexible rules, so they can leverage fabricated debt for buying consumable products (such as a home which is consumable by the way) and slowly rent it to the lower classes to usurp their finances.
Wait, why care about this? Besides the fact it is wrong (there are lots of stores and shops and atms with crypto support) the countries at the moment depend on currency as cash and debit. It is a no brainer those are preferred currency methods and transfers need to happen. Places like China are reversing this. Crypto may not be in your everyday life - just as you may choose to hold onto a pager instead of using a smart phone. But just because you don’t see the value, doesn’t mean others do not. This is a pointless argument, the goal of crypto isn’t to be used at a super market - it’s to decentralize a currency without inflation dependencies.
Much us wrong in this statement, you are focused on specific cryptocoins. CryptoNote, for example, is a currency that does not show past transactions. It isn’t transparent. And who cares if a government adopts it? That aside, China is adopting it specifically for digital control over currency. You are wrong here, no other way to say that.
What do you do with stocks and bonds and investments and foreign currency? Sit on it, exchange it when you need it. Use it for trading when you want to if both parties accept it. Seems like a pretty obvious answer.
Hard to argue with made up definitions.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/value
Welcome to finance
.
https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2020-04-15/money-has-no-meaning-anymore
“The (US) dollar has no real intrinsic value, backed only by the full faith and credit of the U.S. government.”
snl is peepeepoopoo
currency is backed by narrative even gold, who's to say gold is valuable?
boomers b like BUT ITS DIGITAL ITS WORTHLESS
I’m quite aware that the US dollar has no intrinsic value except the backing of an organization run by toddlers.
IMO the USD is backed by the US armed forces.