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Indeed, I don't come here to buy services. But if a host deleted my data by mistake and couldn't restore it cause they don't backup their services, I would be kinda pissed, even if I myself had a backup.
It is unacceptable and simply the fact that the price is low does not justify it at all.
But you get what you pay for most of the time which is why we see threads about certain providers because their services seems to be.. well, flaky at times.
It is also why I'm.. I guess disappointed? when people buy from some of these providers and then complain that their service is down when they know the reputation of said provider simply by the sheer amount of previous threads.
The problem is that these services are not only being sold to "Linux admins" as you assume with that statement. This could have been any other regular customer that ended up paying an, often higher list price on the website, than compared to the LET price.
All I can do is laugh! Sorry but if you want a provider to provide a backup you need to pay! Now that is professional thing to do!
Why be pissed if say you’re paying for unmanaged service? You want to be pissed at a provider screwing up, pay for managed services and wait for them to screw up
So this whole thing about them deleting a customers data and not being able to provide a solution other than free service is okay with you? As if I'd want to stick around with a host that just deleted all my data and just said "Oops".
That's still no explanation for the fuckup.
That isn't true. The OP had to report this to @key900 and he had to ask you. It took over 24hours for the customer to find out his data was lost forever. Also, a free year was not offered in OP. A month was.
By "OP", do you really mean @key900, who is your customer? The OP (original poster) is not your customer but key900's.
Your post is a double :facepalm:. It didn't help and only made you look even more incompetent. What were/are you thinking??? SMH
Provider never advertised daily backup.
Provider provides dirty cheap service.
You are a host yourself. You should be able to answer that question.
A month of compensation seems fair. You have paid someone $100 for a service. They failed to deliver that $100 service. To them, they lost $100 business. So they gave you your $100 back.
Now if that $100 were to make you $10000, I bet you weren’t going to give that someone extra money as a thank you. So why expect to get more for losing?
You bought a car to go to your job. Your car broke. Now you can’t go to your job. You lost your job. Do you also expect the car manufacturers to pay your salary? On top of giving your money back + replacing your car for free?
End of the day, unless one is paying for 100% managed solution, backup is individual’s responsibility. Simple as that. It has always been and it will always be.
Now stop trying to steer up shit. I quote your own website:
I have never claimed that they should offer backup as an included service for the customer. The problem is that they deleted a customers data and then just raise their shoulders and go "oops". It could have been solved by them having at least backup for their own disaster recovery.
Imagine their server got hacked and someone did "rm -rf /" - they just lost a ton of customer data and all they can do is say oops.
But hey, at least we get to see which providers doesn't seem to care much for their customers data by not securing it in the event of human error
So it's unacceptable to offer unmanaged services if the market wants them? That's a weird, fairly totalitarian stance
There's a curtain behind the store that hides another store, and no one knows it's there unless they're looking for it. Your friend tells you there's cool stuff inside. You go in and buy something without asking questions. You don't know how to use it. Do you blame yourself or the vendor? Suppose it's a personality trait that decides the answer, but you don't end up here with these vendors unless you first dealt with a shitty friend that you should probably blame first.
The customer got a sorry refund and free year of service. I call that more than enough compensation. But really it boils down to who is ultimately responsible for their own data?
If I have my own backup, this "oops" incident will be less painful and I would probably be annoyed just because of the inconvenience the provider has caused me, to rebuild/restore/reconfigure or whatever.
However, on the other hand, if I didn't have any backup and this "oops" incident occurs, it would undoubtedly be a disaster for me.
This is just my take on this situation.
So to continue the great car analogy that someone brought up earlier; if you parked your car on the street instead of in your garage it is your fault if someone trashed it?
Seriously, I would praise the hacker and thank him/her for deleting my data as I would feel way better that it's gone rather than it being in the wrong hands
And let's be honest: most regular users probably don't keep backups themselves, but that is absolutely no excuse for a company throwing away your data and going "oops".
I never claimed that - you are making stuff up.
Your BF2020 deal cost $15 - let's say you went in and deleted the services I had with you - do you honestly believe that simply offering me my $15 dollars back makes up for it? What if the providers you use for your entire business did just that? But hey, here's your money back
If yes, I certainly know where to not be a customer. What an anti-consumer way of doing business when the loss of data is your fault. But I guess you would claim that the customer could simply have read the ToS in a sad attempt to distance yourself from the situation.
I'm not. You said it was unprofessional and unacceptable to sell services without forcing customers to pay for backups. Which is absolutely the only sustainable way to do it, you charge your customers for your overhead + profit. In my mind it reads about as sane as "Linux allowing you to use RAID0 is unprofessional and unacceptable." Having choice is neither of those, and neither is catering to people who want to make those choices.
No, but I'm also charging you what I want for the 7 backup copies I keep at all times
Perfectly fine unless I pay them for backups, then not fine. I know my role, and making backups is part of my role not theirs. Unless, again, I pay them for it. But even if I do I'm still taking my own because reasons.
But yeah, even with Fortune 500 companies' managing customer's IT environment/infrastructure, practicing ITIL, having all the relevant processes in place, the "oops" still happens, and when it does, everyone learns from it, implement more processes to minimize the chances of another "oops" and how to quickly recover from it should it still happen - service restoration and so on. Then there's also service levels/credits and penalties involved.
Can you quote that please?
Sure.
Here:
And here:
I fail to see where I say that it is unacceptable to sell services without forcing customers to pay for backups? You are, however, taking both sentences out of the context where I say that when they delete data by mistake, that I think it is unprofessional to not have any form of disaster recovery.
I have never said what you claim I did, which is why you can't directly quote it. Instead you cherry pick out of context - very dishonest.
Sorry, but I think @Amplificator is not totally off track.
Yes, it is customers job to worry about backing up his data. But if I'm not mistaken this case is somewhat different. Yes, it's not a clear cut case of a provider being responsible for his nodes and taking backups of the node data (configs etc). But it was providers decision to provide the @ModulesGarden provider business destroyers access to @OP 's VPS - and it would of course be their job to at least back that VPS image up beforehand just in case.
Now, as much as I detest the MG provider business destroyers, they just did what was to be expected: they created damage and havoc and put the provider into a very ugly place - but hey, this was not a hold-up! It was providers free decision to provided them access to OP's VPS and it was also provider who didn't at least back that VPS image up beforehand.
And btw, NO,"here's your money back plus a free year" is not automatically OK just like it's not automatically OK to tell someone whose cheap car exploded and killed his wife "here's your money back". Data and a working product do have a value that can't be dictated by the provider (but I understand that in this case provider honestly tried to compensate OP generously).
If I'm to interpret it otherwise, I would have to interpret it as you saying it's unacceptable to sell services without giving away backups and not charging customers for them.
You're saying it's unacceptable to not have backups so you really only get to pick one. You can't say it's unacceptable to sell a service without backups and that you didn't say it's unacceptable to sell a service without backups, unless you're having a day roughly similar in scope to my own...
What still amazes me is that someone like you would be totally okay with the provider simply deleting the customers data as long as they gave the customer his money back.
As @jsg said above, data have value. And no, simply using the excuse that "you should have taken your own backup" doesn't negate the fact that a provider basically took a dump on a customer and just brushed it off - and you are completely okay with it because he didn't pay for backup.
I expected more integrity than that from you, being the darling of LET and all.
Calm down Sandra, I never said what I was or wasn't okay with. I said unmanaged service has a place and offering it without the cost of additional services like backups fills a market space that absolutely has value, purpose, and a place.
I realize the irony of accusing you of putting words in my mouth following your accusation of the same, but denying where we landed isn't of value either. We did end up there.
If you expected me to agree that unmanaged services without backups is either unprofessional or unacceptable, I'm not sure how you arrived at any such expectation of me. When I'm running a collection of redundant servers that can be deployed in minutes and only perform transactional tasks, paying lower price for something that isn't backed up is exactly what I want. It's economical, professional, and acceptable.
Some things can be a bit more difficult to swallow with the "valuable experience" argument though. Especially when it happens more than once.
In another company I own, we had this exact thing happen not too long ago.
A new hire accidentally deleted customer data due to a lack of care. Alright, we keep a backup of everything which is taken before we do any sort of work on customer data - so we restored it but still had a talk with him with the reasoning of what you said; it's valuable experience..
But not even 14 days later he does the same thing again due to carelessness yet again. Backup saved the day, but this time he was let go. Of course more things played into him being fired, but it was definitely the thing that made it an easy choice.
When you work on other peoples data as was the situation in this thread, you should do your due diligence and protect that data. It will save your ass and not make you look like an amateur business.
But..
Didn't you say it was okay right there?
Yes. I was asked what I would think if it happened to me. I'd be fine with it. Because if they don't have backups and I don't have backups, it's either redundant or can be replaced in less than 10 minutes.
you sound like Hostdoc/P443 best buddy!
I mean we can argue what is right or not! But at the end of the day it was a mistake and things happen in life. Still data is the owners responsibility! Sorry no excuses for not having a backup unless it is not valuable to you. It’s like a circle jerk!
Well, fuck, you're also at fault for not implementing proper protections. And then blaming improperly trained employee for your incompetence.
Just fucking obtuse, is all. And poor leadership.
It sounds like you don't read terms or agreements, either. Most will limit liability to whatever they were paid, or no liability at all (buy a fucking hard drive for example and count how many fucks are given when you cry about lost data).
Where the expectation that you get more money back without a prior contract is nonsensical and wishful thinking. But interested to know where this happens.
And FFS, bringing in dead wives in accidents (not you) in this $15/year liability discussion? That's why car insurance is mandated in many countries (the US is fucking stupid with the self insured loophole).
OP can just file a claim with his VPS insurance provider for the value of data lost. Oh, wait...