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Quick PSA - Don't Chargeback!
Just wanted to make a PSA to some newer readers: work with your provider rather than through the payment processor!
There. I wish I didn't need to say this, but I am stunned at the lack of (what is it called -- logic?) people can have.
Recently someone paid an invoice twice and chargeback'd both the extra payment and previous months' payments 
before reaching out to me first. Literally a $3.50/mo storage VPS, and Stripe's chargeback fee is $15 even when I will win.
So, remember to work with the provider first, and give them some slack!
(I hoped this was common knowledge, but if I was new into the LE* space, I'm not sure I would know this kind of etiquette)
Thanks!
Comments
Stripe charge $15 chargeback fee if you loose the chargeback only. Have you got chargeback protection on your account? If you trade for long time such option is available with them.
Last month we had similar as someone with fake name signed up and we requested to validate their ID and we have mentioned that the order will be cancelled and refunded within 24 hours unless they validate it, next minute we had PayPal case.
I highly recommend for all sellers to dump the PayPal as they are failing to KYC regulation check, as this way they do support scammers!
I'm sorry to read this, but many times users are reluctant to accept the TOS and want their money back (not in this case). If I remember correctly, WHMCS will automatically add the extra payment to the account credit.
But I noticed your cheap service, 1TB of storage with Raid5 for only $3.50, and immediately placed an order to try it out. Even after resending several times, I still can't receive the account verification email.
Also, this is my first comment on LET, hello guys.
Looking forward to this day
Hello
Interesting, have you received any other types of emails (like order confirmations?).
Thanks so much for signing up, btw!
I'll take "how to be referred to as a former customer" for 300, Alex.
Never work with your scammer provider.
Always charge back first. Talk later.
Providers should have systems in place to answer customer requests promptly, acknowledge issues quickly, and repair problems quickly, before blaming customers. Not all providers come even marginally close to having their own house in order first as seen in numerous public threads; for them chargeback is educational.
Back when we used PayPal to accept payments we'd get chargebacks like this all the time.
Switched to Stripe, improved customer service as much as possible, and made support available via all possible channels (email, live chat, and discord). 2 disputes out of 13.5k payments so far. Maybe I've just been getting lucky, lol.
PayPal is money laundering / fraudulent customers dream land as they can signed as John Smith and the PayPal don’t validate any identity anymore compare what they used to be let’s say 15-20 years ago. In our PayPal case last month (first for long time) we have escalated to PayPal as they do required to know their customers as part of KYC registration and the escalation was closed without any explanations, typically business don’t care about sellers, typically PayPal is now grabbing money service only as PayPal fees are doubled back in September 2019 according to our accountant.
Paypal in the US heavily regulates identity theft and fraud. Once you pass like $500 in payments you need to verify DL and SSN.
Yep, fraudlabs/fraudrecord too.
If they want the record cleared they can settle the fee.
Francisco
If the provider can save the flash sale for me for a week, I'll be happy to mail a check. No payment processing fees and no possibility of chargeback.
However, let's hope that I don't forget to send that check.
P.S. my bank account is safe. I send checks using Bill Pay system. Each check has a unique account number, not my regular account number.
What the fuck are you talking about? Most places stopped accepting cheques because they bounce and take several days to clear. And for a business that takes electronic payment and no cash, you just added labour to someone's job just to handle your cheque.
On top of that, several people I know who have accepted "certified cheques" have gone into banks to find out they are counterfeit.
Also, I don't know the cost of a cheque, envelope and stamp in the US, but you just added the payment processing fees to yourself.
Using the Bill Pay service offered in many banks, I can enter the recipient address and my invoice number, and the bank would mail the check. I do not pay for envelope and stamp.
The payee gets an official check drawn on the bank's account, so that it cannot bounce.
That's interesting. That would be called a "cashier's check," and would indeed be very safe for the recipient, since it's virtually impossible that it would bounce. However, I've never seen such an option with the banks I've used. The only type of bill pay I've seen sends a check from your own account, so it's only a substitute for writing and mailing a check yourself.
For my own business, I love receiving checks, as they are the lowest-fee payment method for US-based clients. But I can understand why this would not be the case for many hosting companies, and that credit cards, even with their fees and chance of chargebacks, would be preferable.
I haven't seen a bank give out personal cheques in ages, but one thing to note is that the bank's online portal generally (if competent) will not allow you to overdraw off it: at send time, it will revoke that much available balance from your account immediately, unlike a handwritten one
Paypal will exist long time. They are friendly for consumer. Easy, fast and relatively safe way to pay. From consumer pov, paying with debit card is way more risky than with paypal.
In the US, checks are still a popular method of payment, and one of few ways that are fee-free. The US doesn't have ubiquitous, free, and easy wire transfers like those used in Europe. (They do have electronic funds transfers, but these aren't available in all cases, and mostly are used for businesses to pay individuals.)
With an online banking account, US banks typically allow individuals and businesses to order that a check be sent on their behalf. After receiving this order, the bank prints up a check, complete with the payee's bank details on it, and then mails it to the recipient, who must then deposit it. After it's deposited, the payee will see the amount deducted from the bank account -- at least with the banks I've seen. Long, slow, and outdated, but that's the way it works.
What's so bad about PayPal?
As a business... how do you lose a PayPal dispute?
"The customer said you kept charging him after he canceled" ... well, did the customer log into their PayPal account and cancel the subscription? ... "Well, no... but..." Isn't the control of the subscription always in the customer's hand?
Here's a scenario I've seen:
Cheques, I'd rather avoid.
I've encountered counterfeit cheques before. Really hard to tell until it goes into a bank.
I wouldn't do it in the hosting business, that's for sure. But between businesses and clients who know each other, and lacking a better alternative like free wire transfers, checks are a relatively cheap way to receive payments. Much better than PayPal or a credit card processer taking 4% of your gross revenue.
Cheque doesn't make sense in LET market.
But, in big contracts, it does make sense.
I suppose this is true for physical goods. And I guess it would work for digital goods as well.
But in terms of subscriptions. Why on earth would PayPal side with a customer that forgot to cancel their PayPal subscription for a service and claim that the business kept deducting payment after they "canceled" the service (regardless of whether or not they actually canceled the service).
Do people not realize that they can log into their PayPal account and manage their Payments and Subscriptions and stop subscriptions for services? (Answer: No, they don't ... and they have no capacity or desire to learn either).
As a consumer, I pay for a lot of things with PayPal. I set up subscriptions. When I cancel that service, I make it a point to log into my PayPal account and cancel the corresponding PayPal subscription. That way, I know I can't be charged any more.
I would agree that PayPal (although I don't really have any bad experiences with them) and credit card companies are way too quick to blame the bad behavior on the retailer. Customers can flat out lie about their actions and credit card companies will believe them.
I would love to see a class action lawsuit against some of these banks so that it will become harder for them to disregard all evidence submitted by a retailer when a consumer is lying and making false accusation in a chargeback or dispute.
That is silly. In Canada, we'd just use Interac e-transfer, which would be instant and immediately accessible. And someone pays, whether it's the monthly banking fees or what.
Yes, what I mean is that unlike a handwritten one, generally whatever amount you put on it is immediately removed from your available balance and placed as pending/held/preauthed, and it does not let you create a "send" order unless you have that much available balance
Seriously? I would've (and have multiple times) done the same thing. Why the fuck would you care if somebody signed up with fake data? It's not a bank FFS. If you make such a request you should be 100% expecting that I'm gonna screw you over in the worst possible way just out of spite. Not to mention this is very illegal anywhere inside GDPR jurisdiction.
^^ Welp, not just a Necro but also a dick as well.
Because servers and hosting can be used for illegal purposes, so many providers use fraud verification services which require your address to be approximately correct. In addition, many jurisdictions legally require that you obtain customer details when exporting services (since you can sell VPSes outside of the country), to meet tax and money laundering regulation.
"GDPR" is not a magic word that you wave around at anyone who you don't like -- companies are still allowed to collect personal information when it is legitimately connected with business interests, and fraud prevention and taxation are legitimate concerns, whether you like it or not.
KYC illegal? I don't think you understand how GDPR works...