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Do you think TorqHost will implement IPv6 in 2013?
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Do you think TorqHost will implement IPv6 in 2013?

rm_rm_ IPv6 Advocate, Veteran

So I see LET has polls now, let's try one!

https://www.torqhost.com/
http://bgp.he.net/AS34702

To not humiliate them I am not going to post links to when IPV6 was originally promised (Q1 2013), or count how many times it was delayed. Only the latest update:

Question is, with almost just one month left in 2013, do you think this will actually happen?

TorqHost IPv6
  1. Do you think TorqHost will implement IPv6 in 2013?57 votes
    1. Yes
      10.53%
    2. No
      89.47%
«1

Comments

  • Maybe I'm overly cynical, but I tend not to believe provider's timetables for ipv6 deployment until they actually have them available for assignment :/ .

  • i wish, but i'd say no chance

  • MaouniqueMaounique Host Rep, Veteran

    It is the same sad story, everyone is now getting their money hoarding IPv4 you would not believe the mafia behind the scenes :(
    Nobody has money to invest in ipv6 deployment, so, no t wont happen soon.

  • SpiritSpirit Member
    edited November 2013

    @rm_ said:

    To not humiliate them I am not going to post links to when IPV6 was originally promised (Q1 2013), or count how many times it was delayed.

    2013? Hehe :)

    Subject: IPv6 pre-sale inquiry
    Sat, Jul 9, 2011 at 2:25 PM
    IPv6 is being tested by us at the moment and it will become publicly available in the next 2-3 months.

    Thanked by 2rm_ William
  • @Maounique said:
    It is the same sad story, everyone is now getting their money hoarding IPv4 you would not believe the mafia behind the scenes :(
    Nobody has money to invest in ipv6 deployment, so, no t wont happen soon.

    IPv6 doesn't cost anything minus a bit of time. It was pretty easy to get going surprisingly.

  • NyrNyr Community Contributor, Veteran

    No way they are going to do it. And they know too :P

  • MaouniqueMaounique Host Rep, Veteran

    @concerto49 said:
    IPv6 doesn't cost anything minus a bit of time. It was pretty easy to get going surprisingly.

    It depends. If your older gear is not IPv6 ready, you are stuck because new gear might cost a lot.

  • @concerto49 said:
    IPv6 doesn't cost anything minus a bit of time.

    It's a case-by-case situation. For you, it may cost "nothing" (assuming you don't count time as opportunity cost), for others it may be a very expensive proposition.

  • @Microlinux said:
    It's a case-by-case situation. For you, it may cost "nothing" (assuming you don't count time as opportunity cost), for others it may be a very expensive proposition.

    Time is cost, but really this is BAU work and that's what operational staff is there for unless you count it as a project. If you do, should fully understand the benefits. It's a wanted feature and the way forward. A lot of people buy servers that have IPv6. So there's gains as well.

    @Maounique said:
    It depends. If your older gear is not IPv6 ready, you are stuck because new gear might cost a lot.

    Means it's time to upgrade. You've used the life span of the gear.

  • MaouniqueMaounique Host Rep, Veteran

    @concerto49 said:
    Means it's time to upgrade. You've used the life span of the gear.

    So here is the dilemma: continue to offer cheap service on EOL hardware or bite the bullet and increase prices while investing in new gear.
    New deployments dont have this issue however they have fresh capital while older hosts hit by price wars do not.
    This is part of reason for the collapse of the low end market in a few months.
    The whole supply chain is in danger, from DCs to the renting people, add to it the increase IPv4 prices, the collapse of the desktop market, bad decisions and debt, you dont have to be a genius to see where this will end up.

  • @concerto49 said:
    It's a wanted feature and the way forward. A lot of people buy servers that have IPv6. So there's gains as well.

    Yes, this I agree with. I just wanted to point out the differences in difficulty of implementation. Last mile networks are the scariest, there is a ton of non-IPv6 CPE out there, and the support/user-education implications are significant.

  • @Microlinux said:
    Yes, this I agree with. I jvust wanted to point out the differences in difficulty of implementation. Last mile networks are the scariest, there is a ton of non-IPv6 CPE out there, and the support/user-education implications are significant.

    That I understand and already mentioned too. Try teaching my granny to add ipv6 to her modem. It's like, what's a modem?

  • doing a whois to the ip of my vps, i see they are mantained by wavecom

    http://bgp.he.net/AS34702

    they dont have ipv6 yet

  • rm_rm_ IPv6 Advocate, Veteran

    @dedicados that's truly amazing information, or you could have simply looked at the 2nd link in the OP.

  • xD

    then if all is answered, why keep posting loool

  • rm_rm_ IPv6 Advocate, Veteran

    @dedicados Seeing how no one seems to believe in the "end of 2013" ETA, maybe @torqhost will decide to make it happen this time, just to surprise everyone. :)

  • MaouniqueMaounique Host Rep, Veteran

    Or maybe at least next time :)

  • remind me about provider that using colocrossing. Coming Soon ™

  • @Maounique said:
    Or maybe at least next time :)

    Or promise to do it next time. ;)

  • MaouniqueMaounique Host Rep, Veteran

    @joelgm said:

    Yes, I suppose, they will promise again and this time the promise will be based on some serious planning. That is what I meant :)

  • As much as I like Torqhost, experience has taught me that not too many people understand the actual importance of IPv6. Hence, I don't think Torq's upstream will either, so I doubt they'll make it this year.

    I'm planning on writing a blog post on this some day (maybe on LET, need to discuss that with Jon), but the reasons I've heard some enterprises give for not implementing IPv6 are so appalling.

  • Lets rant about IPv6?

    IPv6 is easy to setup if you have BGP or your upstream is willing to cooperate in any imaginable way (static routed, bgp default, bgp full). If you don't have upstream on Layer2 direct you don't deserve to host anything for anyone. No excuse.

    Elementary: Your switching has no IPv6 support?

    Nobody runs this still, if you do then you don't deserve it to host anything for anyone. Buy new switches. NOW.
    24x1GE/2SFP - HP 1910-24 - 150EUR with VAT
    48x1GE/4SFP - D-Link DGS-1210-52 - 250EUR with VAT
    You don't need more than that, if your old switches have no IPv6 they don't have 10GE or more than 1000Mbit uplink anyway. No excuse.

    Your routing equipment has no IPv6 support?
    What the hell are you running on? If you are a DC this is not an excuse is any possible way - A IPv6 default route and some 100-1000Mbit work on anything that has a brand and can take 2x full BGP (which is the bare minimum for any DC, else its a basement.)

    VLAN assignments are easy as pie, just assign each VLAN a /48 and send the customer info for a /64 for each device in his VLAN, maybe write something to assign him a /64 and gateway on a software router (or, if you are a modern DC on your ToR switch) with a webpanel even. No excuse.

    Flat layout or MAC filtered networks (+ vodoo) (OVH/Hetzner as examples) can just roll out a shared infra with smaller assignments (due to MAC tables) and then later switch over to VLANs and route this smaller networks (like /112s etc.) inside VLANs as they do with the IPv4 space. No excuse.

    There is no excuse to not offer IPv6 in 2013. Not for anyone.

  • I asked wavecom when they will implement IPv6 in July 2013, this was their response:

    Hi
    
    We will implement IPv6 in september.
    

    I contacted them again on last thursday but didn't get an answer yet

  • Ash_HawkridgeAsh_Hawkridge Member
    edited November 2013

    William said: There is no excuse to not offer IPv6 in 2013. Not for anyone.

    Unless it's the VPS provider that hasn't got a clue how to configure it, which i actually believe might be the reason in some cases. SolusVM doesn't configure it for you :P

  • rm_rm_ IPv6 Advocate, Veteran

    Jack said: Do you offer ipv6?

    Yes in fact he does and even experimenting with v6-only plans: http://lowendtalk.com/discussion/16969/virtual6-512mb-vps-from-2-28-month

    Thanked by 1Ash_Hawkridge
  • Ash_HawkridgeAsh_Hawkridge Member
    edited November 2013

    Jack said: Do you offer ipv6?

    I have always offered v6. I wouldn't touch a DC/provider without it. As @rm_ stated, Virtual6 plans are v6 only by default.

  • MaouniqueMaounique Host Rep, Veteran
    edited November 2013

    @William said:
    Lets rant about IPv6?

    You are forgetting a very important cost.
    Can you imagine how much HARDER it will get for the police to find the terrorists and child molesters over IPv6 ? Not to mention how much harder will get for the automated settlement bots for torrenters ? How big will get the dat access logs storing those IPv6 for months ? Not that the governments will care, but you can imagine DCs not being too keen to begin storing those logs too...
    The GFW is already choking under the load of filtering so many IPv4 and IPv6 of those ASNs, can you imagine how hard it will be when someone will build a censorship circumventing layer over the IPv6 only ? That will use random IPs AND ports ?
    Can you imagine the Italian police which raids private houses of datacenter operators because one of their assigned IPs was infringing IP rights managing with IPv6 addresses ? The judges giving out blackhole court orders on IPv6 ?
    How about NSA and their "safer internet" non-profit operation ?
    No, my dear William, IPv6 is for hackers and criminals, not for legitimate people, who would need to use IPv6 when IPv4 is so cheap yet ? Only people that try to hide in a much larger ocean, IPv6 will never be legit, people which have nothing to hide are perfectly OK with IPv4 and NAT.

  • rm_rm_ IPv6 Advocate, Veteran
    edited November 2013

    Maounique said: Can you imagine how much HARDER it will get for the police to find the terrorists and child molesters over IPv6 ?

    Uhm, no it will not? Providers give out at least a /64 or /60 per user, whatever bad comes from that whole subnet is all considered that particular user's fault. So none of "but spammers change their IP, and then they are like untraceable again! mwahaha". I expected someone like you to know better rather than repeat myths typical for people who only "read something a little" about IPv6.

  • MaouniqueMaounique Host Rep, Veteran
    edited November 2013

    That should not really be the truth, it is the perception that counts for policy-makers and lawmakers as well as CEOs, they do not know IPv4 now, not to mention IPv6, but, even if they did get it, it will be much easier to make a free internet over IPv6.
    GFW will have problems determining which provider gives 1 IPv6 (believe it or not, Voxility gives one IPv6 for every IPv4...), which gives /112, which /64 which /56 even.
    The logs will increase a lot because also, everyone who has to record incoming connections will have the same problem because standardization will not happen, control freak states will only allow one IPv6, others will not care, so, really, they will have to record ALL IPv6 hits and those already take more bytes than an IPv4...
    There are people offering FREE IPv6 to everyone that wants it.
    No, it will be harder, much harder for people that didnt grasp yet IPv4 even and raid homes of providers tracing one IP or the other.
    As for the attacks, please refrain from them, you attacked me in the past and didnt work when you were praising the great OVH and you tried to make me look like the green of envy provider that will lose the fat income because of that.
    Do you think things changed and you will be more successful proving I know nothing ? Contact nonuby and start turning all my words on their heads to prove that. I will have fun in this war like always, I am missing the poor Aldryic, he kept thinking he has the upper hand all the time, he was lucky Francisco sent him to a corner, otherwise it would have been an even worse slaughter.

    rm_ said: Uhm, no it will not? Providers give out at least a /64 or /60 per user, whatever bad comes from that whole subnet is all considered that particular user's fault. So none of "but spammers change their IP, and then they are like untraceable again! mwahaha". I expected someone like you to know better rather than repeat myths typical for people who only "read something a little" about IPv6.

  • WilliamWilliam Member
    edited November 2013

    Maounique said: Can you imagine how much HARDER it will get for the police to find the terrorists and child molesters over IPv6 ?

    Seriously, what stupid answer is that?

    IPv6 changes exactly nothing, it's the same as if you get a /23 with a dedicated server - You just have more /128s. No excuse for anything.

    Maounique said: The GFW is already choking under the load of filtering so many IPv4 and IPv6 of those ASNs, can you imagine how hard it will be when someone will build a censorship circumventing layer over the IPv6 only ?

    No, the GFW can route v6 native as it can do for v4 at wirespeed (ASIC) - ZTE hardware is VERY IPv6 capable and the PLA is VERY IPv6 interested. IPv6 is heavily used in the Chinese government.

    It is just overloaded in general and the Chinese v6 upstream currently sucks, simply.

    Maounique said: Can you imagine the Italian police which raids private houses of datacenter operators because one of their assigned IPs was infringing IP rights managing with IPv6 addresses ? The judges giving out blackhole court orders on IPv6 ?

    Your police does that for IPv4 currently as well, simply because they have no idea what they do. Not changing. No excuse. They don't know much about IPv4 either, so just tell them v6 is another format. Solved.

    Maounique said: GFW will have problems determining which provider gives 1 IPv6 (believe it or not, Voxility gives one IPv6 for every IPv4...), which gives /112, which /64 which /56 even.

    And ISPs would care about IPv6 deployment and GFW relationship... why? If the Chinese get locked out that is their issue and they have to take it up with their government, i will for surely not change anything because the chinese start to implement weird shit again.

    Not my problem. No excuse.

    Maounique said: The logs will increase a lot because also, everyone who has to record incoming connections will have the same problem because standardization will not happen, control freak states will only allow one IPv6, others will not care, so, really, they will have to record ALL IPv6 hits and those already take more bytes than an IPv4... There are people offering FREE IPv6 to everyone that wants it. No, it will be harder, much harder for people that didnt grasp yet IPv4 even and raid homes of providers tracing one IP or the other.

    3TB HDDs are 90$. Gzip. No Excuse.

    If the government starts to tells me how to assign IPs you can bet that i am in Strasbourg a month later to sue them in front of the EU. That is legally in no way possible and violates at least 2 guaranteed EU rights.

    Maounique said: As for the attacks, please refrain from them, you attacked me in the past and didnt work when you were praising the great OVH and you tried to make me look like the green of envy provider that will lose the fat income because of that.

    IPv6 attacks are by design easier to filter. No excuse.

    Thanked by 1rm_
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