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The "New" great debate: Centos "alternative"

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  • TimboJonesTimboJones Member

    I'm curious why and how people think BSD is faster. Whenever I've seen a benchmark between BSD and several Linux distros, BSD rarely is the winner in any category. Something, something, Kool-Aid?

    https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=comet-lake-bsd&num=4
    https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=windows2019-linux-bsd&num=6
    https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=freebsd-12-windows&num=5
    https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=BSD-Linux-January-2019-Bench
    https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=3990x-freebsd-bsd&num=5
    https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=dfly-freebsd-tyanamd&num=4

    Which I take means one has to really tune their configuration from a default setup to see these benefits they're talking about. For example, Netflix tunes the shit out of their servers to get the best performance. But they spend the time and money on tools to determine that.

    If people really wanted to squeeze out the most performance, they'd run Clear Linux from Intel.

  • eva2000eva2000 Veteran

    @TimboJones said: I'm curious why and how people think BSD is faster.

    Yeah I would love to see benchmarks. Just using less resources at idle or even load doesn't necessarily mean something is faster.

    Spun up CentOS 7.9, CentOS 8.3, Debian 10, Oracle 8.3 and Ubuntu 20.04 guest LXD containers to play with overtime. Hope there will be a Rocky Linux and Cloud Linux containers too.

    lxc list
+----------+---------+---------------------+----------------------------------------------+-----------+-----------+
|   NAME   |  STATE  |        IPV4         |                     IPV6                     |   TYPE    | SNAPSHOTS |
+----------+---------+---------------------+----------------------------------------------+-----------+-----------+
| centos79 | RUNNING | 10.10.10.93 (eth0)  | fd42:c19:1dbf:b8d7:216:3eff:fe16:7dfb (eth0) | CONTAINER | 0         |
+----------+---------+---------------------+----------------------------------------------+-----------+-----------+
| centos80 | RUNNING | 10.10.10.101 (eth0) | fd42:c19:1dbf:b8d7:216:3eff:fe64:cf6d (eth0) | CONTAINER | 0         |
+----------+---------+---------------------+----------------------------------------------+-----------+-----------+
| debian10 | RUNNING | 10.10.10.19 (eth0)  | fd42:c19:1dbf:b8d7:216:3eff:fef8:ede (eth0)  | CONTAINER | 0         |
+----------+---------+---------------------+----------------------------------------------+-----------+-----------+
| oracle80 | RUNNING | 10.10.10.7 (eth0)   | fd42:c19:1dbf:b8d7:216:3eff:fefc:8d02 (eth0) | CONTAINER | 0         |
+----------+---------+---------------------+----------------------------------------------+-----------+-----------+
| ubuntu20 | RUNNING | 10.10.10.131 (eth0) | fd42:c19:1dbf:b8d7:216:3eff:feec:546f (eth0) | CONTAINER | 0         |
+----------+---------+---------------------+----------------------------------------------+-----------+-----------+

    lxc exec ubuntu20 -- cat /etc/lsb-release
DISTRIB_ID=Ubuntu
DISTRIB_RELEASE=20.04
DISTRIB_CODENAME=focal
DISTRIB_DESCRIPTION="Ubuntu 20.04.1 LTS"

lxc exec ubuntu20 -- cat /etc/os-release
NAME="Ubuntu"
VERSION="20.04.1 LTS (Focal Fossa)"
ID=ubuntu
ID_LIKE=debian
PRETTY_NAME="Ubuntu 20.04.1 LTS"
VERSION_ID="20.04"
HOME_URL="https://www.ubuntu.com/"
SUPPORT_URL="https://help.ubuntu.com/"
BUG_REPORT_URL="https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/"
PRIVACY_POLICY_URL="https://www.ubuntu.com/legal/terms-and-policies/privacy-policy"
VERSION_CODENAME=focal
UBUNTU_CODENAME=focal

    lxc exec debian10 -- cat /etc/os-release
PRETTY_NAME="Debian GNU/Linux 10 (buster)"
NAME="Debian GNU/Linux"
VERSION_ID="10"
VERSION="10 (buster)"
VERSION_CODENAME=buster
ID=debian
HOME_URL="https://www.debian.org/"
SUPPORT_URL="https://www.debian.org/support"
BUG_REPORT_URL="https://bugs.debian.org/"

lxc exec debian10 -- cat /etc/debian_version
10.7

    lxc exec centos79 -- cat /etc/redhat-release
CentOS Linux release 7.9.2009 (Core)

lxc exec centos79 -- cat /etc/os-release
NAME="CentOS Linux"
VERSION="7 (Core)"
ID="centos"
ID_LIKE="rhel fedora"
VERSION_ID="7"
PRETTY_NAME="CentOS Linux 7 (Core)"
ANSI_COLOR="0;31"
CPE_NAME="cpe:/o:centos:centos:7"
HOME_URL="https://www.centos.org/"
BUG_REPORT_URL="https://bugs.centos.org/"

CENTOS_MANTISBT_PROJECT="CentOS-7"
CENTOS_MANTISBT_PROJECT_VERSION="7"
REDHAT_SUPPORT_PRODUCT="centos"
REDHAT_SUPPORT_PRODUCT_VERSION="7"

    lxc exec centos80 -- cat /etc/redhat-release
CentOS Linux release 8.3.2011

lxc exec centos80 -- cat /etc/os-release
NAME="CentOS Linux"
VERSION="8"
ID="centos"
ID_LIKE="rhel fedora"
VERSION_ID="8"
PLATFORM_ID="platform:el8"
PRETTY_NAME="CentOS Linux 8"
ANSI_COLOR="0;31"
CPE_NAME="cpe:/o:centos:centos:8"
HOME_URL="https://centos.org/"
BUG_REPORT_URL="https://bugs.centos.org/"
CENTOS_MANTISBT_PROJECT="CentOS-8"
CENTOS_MANTISBT_PROJECT_VERSION="8"

    lxc exec oracle80 -- cat /etc/oracle-release
Oracle Linux Server release 8.3

lxc exec oracle80 -- cat /etc/os-release
NAME="Oracle Linux Server"
VERSION="8.3"
ID="ol"
ID_LIKE="fedora"
VARIANT="Server"
VARIANT_ID="server"
VERSION_ID="8.3"
PLATFORM_ID="platform:el8"
PRETTY_NAME="Oracle Linux Server 8.3"
ANSI_COLOR="0;31"
CPE_NAME="cpe:/o:oracle:linux:8:3:server"
HOME_URL="https://linux.oracle.com/"
BUG_REPORT_URL="https://bugzilla.oracle.com/"

ORACLE_BUGZILLA_PRODUCT="Oracle Linux 8"
ORACLE_BUGZILLA_PRODUCT_VERSION=8.3
ORACLE_SUPPORT_PRODUCT="Oracle Linux"
ORACLE_SUPPORT_PRODUCT_VERSION=8.3
  • qpsqps Member, Host Rep

    I suspect Windows 11 aka Microsoft Linux is coming soon, which I would guess will either be RHEL-based or Debian-based. Could be wrong, though.

  • mehargagsmehargags Member

    RedHat BYOL (you know what I mean) as we use Windows BYOL :D

  • FranciscoFrancisco Top Host, Host Rep, Veteran

    @qps said:
    I suspect Windows 11 aka Microsoft Linux is coming soon, which I would guess will either be RHEL-based or Debian-based. Could be wrong, though.

    It's the only reason I could see for them porting MSSQL over.

    No ones running a full linux farm and goes 'hey, you know what we need? besides a shower? MSSQL.'.

    Francisco

    Thanked by 1TimboJones
  • marvelmarvel Member

    For production servers I would just go for Ubuntu because of the huge community which is great if you need support. Debian is nice if you require stability but it lacks newer packages. It used to be my distro of choice but time between releases is just too long.

    I never cared so much about CentOS, a lot of vendors require it though which is the only reason I run it sometimes.

    I love Gentoo too btw. Been running that for years but lack of time made me switch to Ubuntu/Debian eventually.

  • mrclownmrclown Member

    Debian Thanks.

    You need to check for long term, never get disappointed.

  • marvelmarvel Member

    @qps said:
    I suspect Windows 11 aka Microsoft Linux is coming soon, which I would guess will either be RHEL-based or Debian-based. Could be wrong, though.

    It will just be Windows 10 running on a Linux kernel. There are already rumors going in that direction.

  • dominamedominame Member
    edited December 2020

    ~~I still haven't seen any mention of Scientific Linux, a community based RHEL clone managed by CERN. It appears to be still run by them and well maintained. Last time I used it, which was several years ago, it was almost identical to CentOS apart from having fewer games on the desktop version.

    I haven't checked it out myself recently, but on the face of it, a simple drop in replacement for CentOS.~~

    Hmmm. I wish I hadn't said that. Looking a bit deeper into the SL site it seems they are changing direction too. They'll be supporting v7 to end of life but that just kicks the can a bit further down the road.

  • rm_rm_ IPv6 Advocate, Veteran

    https://listserv.fnal.gov/scripts/wa.exe?A2=SCIENTIFIC-LINUX-ANNOUNCE;11d6001.1904 - "we will deploy CentOS 8 in our scientific computing environments rather than develop Scientific Linux 8". Maybe they will reconsider now, though.

  • angstromangstrom Moderator

    @dominame said: Hmmm. I wish I hadn't said that. Looking a bit deeper into the SL site it seems they are changing direction too. They'll be supporting v7 to end of life but that just kicks the can a bit further down the road.

    SL announced quite a while ago that they would stop after v7 (and move to CentOS 8).

    Perhaps they'll reconsider after the recent announcement.

  • rcy026rcy026 Member

    @TimboJones said:
    I'm curious why and how people think BSD is faster. Whenever I've seen a benchmark between BSD and several Linux distros, BSD rarely is the winner in any category. Something, something, Kool-Aid?

    https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=comet-lake-bsd&num=4
    https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=windows2019-linux-bsd&num=6
    https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=freebsd-12-windows&num=5
    https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=BSD-Linux-January-2019-Bench
    https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=3990x-freebsd-bsd&num=5
    https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=dfly-freebsd-tyanamd&num=4

    Which I take means one has to really tune their configuration from a default setup to see these benefits they're talking about. For example, Netflix tunes the shit out of their servers to get the best performance. But they spend the time and money on tools to determine that.

    If people really wanted to squeeze out the most performance, they'd run Clear Linux from Intel.

    I think the general consensus is that BSD, and FreeBSD in particular, has one of the fastest and most stable network stacks. There is a reason why Juniper, Netflix, Netscaler and many others use FreeBSD in their appliances, and why it is very often used when breaking bandwidth and throughput records.
    If you are just running stuff like Apache and other software written for Linux, then you have to know how to tweak it to make it perform on BSD. But it's usually not worth the trouble so just stick with Linux, it's good enough.

    Also, it's less bloated. FreeBSD has something like 9 millions lines of code in the kernel, while Linux has close to 30 millions. Granted, Linux has more features, but most of them are things 99% of its users never uses.

  • TimboJonesTimboJones Member

    @marvel said:

    @qps said:
    I suspect Windows 11 aka Microsoft Linux is coming soon, which I would guess will either be RHEL-based or Debian-based. Could be wrong, though.

    It will just be Windows 10 running on a Linux kernel. There are already rumors going in that direction.

    I think you have that backwards and referring to WSL.

  • aRNoLDaRNoLD Member

    Is this too fast? RockyLinux has a installation UI now?

    Thanked by 3eva2000 vimalware _MS_
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