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What's the problem with BILLmanager and VMmanager?
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What's the problem with BILLmanager and VMmanager?

o_be_oneo_be_one Member
edited May 2020 in General

Hello all,

while learning more and more about different solutions to manage KVMs, i've discovered this russian company. I've tried their products and even read their documentations.

Now i've been pretty sure SolusVM was quite the best choice, i feel confused about BILLmanager and VMmanager. They look nice, they are from the same company and they look quite complete.

Are they good products? Why don't you use it? Can you share any experience with it?

Thanks a lot for sharing ^^ !

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Comments

  • BILLmanager doesn't attract the attention of some companies because it's not your typical WHMCS/Blesta "unzip and run".

    Also, maybe this is just a preference, but I'm personally not a fan of the whole Webmin-esque style where the menus are on the left side with too many options. As an administrator, sure I'll appreciate it. But as a customer who just wants his Wordpress site running and pay the occasional invoice, it's confusing.

    As for VMmanager, I'm assuming pricing ruins it. This one actually looks great, used it on WiredBlade as a customer and I loved the interface. But with a per-node price in addition to the per-VM price, I'm feeling it's not targeting the low-end market given the margins these VPSes sell for.

    Thanked by 1o_be_one
  • seriesnseriesn Member

    Honestly, even before the features and price, that UI is just not meant for 2020.

    Thanked by 1o_be_one
  • Mr_TomMr_Tom Member, Host Rep

    I thought they'd redone a lot of the UI? The video on the site certainly looks a lot nicer than when I used it as a client with a provider a year or two ago.

    Thanked by 1o_be_one
  • rustelekomrustelekom Member, Patron Provider
    edited May 2020

    Yes, new version - 6 mostly rebuild with mention of UI. I could not say that it is now ideal but it is better than version 5 or 4. We use all set of ISPsystem software in production in many years.

    Thanked by 1o_be_one
  • @rustelekom said:
    Yes, new version - 6 mostly rebuild with mention of UI. I could not say that it is now ideal but it is better than version 5 or 4. We use all set of ISPsystem software in production in many years.

    How was you experience so far with the whole set? Some bugs? How about their support? How about their community? Thanks :).

  • TejyTejy Member

    I know that these softwares are really reliable, but it doesn't fit to main company needs.
    Offering one interface/panel for each feature (billing, vps management), is clearly the worst thing ever. Best providers (Vultr, Digital Ocean, OVHCloud, Scaleway) have an only web interface/panel to manage all things (billing, vps management, support, etc).
    Fleio and Solus.io are for me the best softwares to offer a unique user experience.

    Thanked by 2o_be_one fleio
  • rustelekomrustelekom Member, Patron Provider

    We use whole set of their software - DCImanager, VMmanager, Billmanager, ISPmanager. Lot of bugs was found and lot of them was resolved during years (we use their software from 2013).
    Usually bug resolved in next software update. But of course this depend from complexity of bug. Right now we do not have issue with Billmanager and VMmanager.
    Support is good enough and ready to help. Documentation is also good enough. But if you have doubt on something will be better touch to support and ask for confirmation.
    Community was big (but mostly Russian spoken users) but now most problem resolved using their ticket system. That is because they waive paid support so now support is free:)

    Thanked by 1o_be_one
  • ViridWebViridWeb Member, Host Rep

    @o_be_one said:

    @rustelekom said:
    Yes, new version - 6 mostly rebuild with mention of UI. I could not say that it is now ideal but it is better than version 5 or 4. We use all set of ISPsystem software in production in many years.

    How was you experience so far with the whole set? Some bugs? How about their support? How about their community? Thanks :).

    We do not use their software for protection use but we do have tested Vmmanager 6 for more than 2 months. The software is really easy

    It's really good.

    The Support is as always perfect. Most of time I got their response within 30 minutes to 4 hours. They will help you on anything related to their software.

    But I personally think their default WHMCS module is good for nothing but they have very good API so you can build your own.

    They also support ceph so it's a plus

    Thanked by 1o_be_one
  • lonealonea Member, Host Rep

    VMManager don't have a bandwidth monitor, so you can't limit how much VPS use on the data transfer.

    Therefore, not suitable for a hosting company.

    Thanked by 1o_be_one
  • rustelekomrustelekom Member, Patron Provider

    BTW. Forgotten tell that Billmanager is free if you have less than 50 clients.
    Regards bandwidth limit - VMmanager 6 monitor traffic usage but do not stop vm's which is overused traffic. VMmanager 5 can stop such vm's. But generally speaking ISPsystem spread functions over his line of products. Let's say that IP issuing delegated to IPmanager, stopping vm's due to traffic overusage or charging their owner for overused traffic delegated to Billmanager and so on. Not all the time ISPsystem logic is clear for understanding but it's work properly when you follow their idea...

    Thanked by 1o_be_one
  • @rustelekom said:
    BTW. Forgotten tell that Billmanager is free if you have less than 50 clients.
    Regards bandwidth limit - VMmanager 6 monitor traffic usage but do not stop vm's which is overused traffic. VMmanager 5 can stop such vm's. But generally speaking ISPsystem spread functions over his line of products. Let's say that IP issuing delegated to IPmanager, stopping vm's due to traffic overusage or charging their owner for overused traffic delegated to Billmanager and so on. Not all the time ISPsystem logic is clear for understanding but it's work properly when you follow their idea...

    So sounds like they are powerful if you use their entire stack, but if not there is some required adjustment.

  • rustelekomrustelekom Member, Patron Provider

    @o_be_one said:

    So sounds like they are powerful if you use their entire stack, but if not there is some required adjustment.

    Exactly. They offer API for all of their product so you can design own billing panel and using API of VMmanager to manage all vm's.

    Thanked by 1o_be_one
  • One of my hosts uses VMmanager. So far, as a client, the panel has been extremely simple to use, and I've had a great experience with it, and have not yet run into any issues.

    Thanked by 1o_be_one
  • Shoaib_AShoaib_A Member
    edited June 2020

    @rustelekom BILLmanager is no longer free for upto 50 clients. I think they changed their policy very recently as when I last checked their website a few months ago, the free version was available. Currently only license you can get for free is 1 month trial.

  • Shoaib_A said: BILLmanager is no longer free for upto 50 clients. I think they changed their policy very recently as when I last checked their website a few months ago, the free version was available. Currently only license you can get for free is 1 month trial.

    Well that's what i've read too. I 've tested the panel and was surprised that it shown me a header wrote something like "enjoy free use of BILLmanager until you reach 50 customers!". So i don't know, maybe it's 1 month free if you have more that 50 customers, else there's no limit. I don't know. The best is to contact their support probably!

    Thanked by 1Shoaib_A
  • Shoaib_AShoaib_A Member
    edited June 2020

    @o_be_one said:

    Shoaib_A said: BILLmanager is no longer free for upto 50 clients. I think they changed their policy very recently as when I last checked their website a few months ago, the free version was available. Currently only license you can get for free is 1 month trial.

    Well that's what i've read too. I 've tested the panel and was surprised that it shown me a header wrote something like "enjoy free use of BILLmanager until you reach 50 customers!". So i don't know, maybe it's 1 month free if you have more that 50 customers, else there's no limit. I don't know. The best is to contact their support probably!

    It still might be free for upto 50 clients but until a few months ago, the details about that free license used to be present on their website which is no longer the case. So yes whoever wants to use it should contact their support to get a clear answer.

    I think hosting providers usually don't consider any of their products because there is very limited support for hosting software not developed by them. Otherwise they are a reputable company & are very popular among hosting providers of Russia & other east European countries.

    Thanked by 1o_be_one
  • rustelekomrustelekom Member, Patron Provider

    You can use Billmanager for free if your customer base do not exceed limit of 50 clients. But, i doubt that you will get updates for free all the time. Let me ask support:)
    And yes above banners would be shown for all your customers so this offer mainly targeted for testing purpose and not for using in production.

    Thanked by 1o_be_one
  • rustelekomrustelekom Member, Patron Provider

    Last updates: Yes, until time when you do not exceed 50 customer limits Billmanager will updated also for free.

    Thanked by 1o_be_one
  • HostMayoHostMayo Member, Host Rep

    I used it long time ago but then their GUI was poor and didn't allowed overselling of resources in KVMs. Just got their newsletter that they now allow that to do so. Howevever still they don't have any plugins for billing systems like blesta and clientexec. So for me it was either solusvm or virtualizor. Both good but for now I am sticking with virtualizor due to their support for multi-virtualtzation and lack of solusvm to operate from a single node for KVMs.

    Sorry if I am deviating from the main topic but I am curious to know how many of providers are using custom panels of their own for managing vpses.

    Thanked by 1o_be_one
  • Waqass said: Sorry if I am deviating from the main topic but I am curious to know how many of providers are using custom panels of their own for managing vpses.

    I'm originally from France, and i can tell you that in France most providers use home made billing and vm panels. That's just crazy! it's since i live in Canada that i've heard about all those management panel.

    Waqass said: Howevever still they don't have any plugins for billing systems like blesta and clientexec.

    Isn't BILLmanager intented to be the billing panel for VMmanager which is VM panel?

    Thanked by 1HostMayo
  • rustelekomrustelekom Member, Patron Provider

    Billmanager is product of ISPsystem and actually it seem that they is not so interested to expand their own ecosystem for 3-rd party products. But if you are developer and want use their ecosystem for your specialized niche you can do this. By developing modules or own plugin y.ou can expand Billmanager features as you want. But it is little more complex than for other billing system because all ISPsystem based on C++ binary's. Even so, you can add own payment, hosting, domain registration etc. using PHP.
    BTW. You already can add CloudLinux, Antivirus, DDOS protection as service to your sale offers. You may use many method of payments, domain registrations, hosting panel etc. But please check how they suitable for you because such modules has limitations and provide only base feature.

    Thanked by 1o_be_one
  • EdwardEdward Member

    "What's the problem with BILLmanager and VMmanager?"
    There are two versions of BILLmanager:
    BILLmanager 5 - no problems, old and stable, the problem can only be that new customers will have to explain how to order or extend the service.
    BILLmanager 6 - new billing with a fairly convenient interface, but not stable at the moment, is not recommended yet for working projects

    VMmanager 6 - excellent product, we use to create a VPS. Easy to configure and convenient for customers to manage VPS.

    Thanked by 1o_be_one
  • seriesn said: Honestly, even before the features and price, that UI is just not meant for 2020.

    I thought this was for people experienced on web stuff, so changing some css shouldn't be a big deal especially now at 2020.

    So many providers here who are just 'normal' almost 'non-IT' people.

  • edited June 2020

    I would say that customers from non-CIS world do not accept not ISPmanager nor VMmanager/whatever. When we were using ISPmanager in the past - we`ve got some questions, like "where is cPanel"? Do you have simply ISPconfig and etc.?

    Thanked by 1o_be_one
  • rustelekomrustelekom Member, Patron Provider

    cPanel fans look same like Iphone fans :) Many years ago we've begin to use cPanel and until now use it due to same reason like @hostinginternational said. Even that many alternatives exist on market: Directadmin, Plesk and ISPmanager also. And to be honest, most of big host do not use third party software and use own.

    Thanked by 2o_be_one RedSox
  • jarjar Patron Provider, Top Host, Veteran

    Still have their CEO on my FB friend's list. It's been years since I met up with them at hostingcon but him and Pavel were extremely friendly, knowledgeable about the industry, and driven. As far as initial impressions go, nothing but good from that. And yet, years later, still haven't taken the time to give their software a solid test (need and motive never collided).

  • Regarding the UI/UX thing, their UI was notoriously outdated but with latest versions such as Billmanager6 and VMmanager6. They are really clean and well built. Been using vmmanager 6 for a while now and really impressed with their effective UI.

    And I've seen multiple providers who use vmmanager with their own ui layer on top of it.

    Thanked by 1o_be_one
  • @duckeeyuck said:

    seriesn said: Honestly, even before the features and price, that UI is just not meant for 2020.

    I thought this was for people experienced on web stuff, so changing some css shouldn't be a big deal especially now at 2020.

    So many providers here who are just 'normal' almost 'non-IT' people.

    Dear Sir,
    Customizing a 3rd party product, not difficult.
    Updating and fixing it after every update ? Not worth the trouble. Especially if I am paying for a product, I expect it to fit my need without me spending more money (time) on it. If it doesn’t and other alternatives exists that does it for the same cost or less? You know where I am going with this :).

    Last but not least sir,
    It might be common knowledge, but just in case it isn’t , not every sysadmin is an UI expert, not every UI designer is a sysadmin.

    Thanked by 2jar o_be_one
  • jarjar Patron Provider, Top Host, Veteran
    edited June 2020

    @seriesn said:

    @duckeeyuck said:

    seriesn said: Honestly, even before the features and price, that UI is just not meant for 2020.

    I thought this was for people experienced on web stuff, so changing some css shouldn't be a big deal especially now at 2020.

    So many providers here who are just 'normal' almost 'non-IT' people.

    Dear Sir,
    Customizing a 3rd party product, not difficult.
    Updating and fixing it after every update ? Not worth the trouble. Especially if I am paying for a product, I expect it to fit my need without me spending more money (time) on it. If it doesn’t and other alternatives exists that does it for the same cost or less? You know where I am going with this :).

    Last but not least sir,
    It might be common knowledge, but just in case it isn’t , not every sysadmin is an UI expert, not every UI designer is a sysadmin.

    A solid insight into what it looks like from the business side to heavily modify/skin a third party panel sometimes. That’s why mxroute prices have slowly increased over time, to avoid getting stuck in that hole.

    Thanked by 1o_be_one
  • seriesn said: Updating and fixing it after every update ? Not worth the trouble. Especially if I am paying for a product, I expect it to fit my need without me spending more money (time) on it. If it doesn’t and other alternatives exists that does it for the same cost or less? You know where I am going with this :).

    Updating and fixing everyupdate..... to css?
    it's not a programming language that breaks every update lol
    you don't move from bootstrap 3 -> 4 like nothing, you usually stick to one lol and never change it

    this is a bad mentality, one that limits you, giving up and reaching conclusions before you even start is not the way to go

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