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Perhaps you could try to send the abuse ID of your case to @Hetzner_OL to see if she can help.
@Hetzner_OL
I just paid my monthly invoice of $3500 and I would appreciate someone taking a second look into this for this community member. Such a report worries me as a customer, and I would be greatly appreciative to find out that if the user is speaking truthfully, that it has been resolved favorably.
I understand that our public facing friends at Hetzner will be more than happy to look into it, but I would like to add a dollar value to my concern should it add weight to the request when pushed upstream.
It's indeed real since my experience with them similar.
Just give you an example, a few months ago I've received an abuse message and Hetzner just says fix it? Trying to get clarification:
Basically, what they say even if no email was sent from your servers - they simply too strict with abuses and simply don't care if the actual activity wasn't originating from your server's IP.
I'm still not taking into the account that complaint is not about sending email...
Having a pointing MX record is enough.
I could just sign up on any site and if somebody complains to the email server where my domain is hosted - Hetzner for example - they'll instantly turn off your service and might say goodbye.
If you're hosted with them, be careful, they could just shut down you anytime.
That is really sad and I do really hope it will change in the future.
It doesn't matter how much you pay dude or how many services you have with them , hetzner doesn't care about you or its customers , as soon as fake abuse arrive to your account they will kill you on sight.
Their abuse department is lazy he can't check every abuse its legit or not , is easy for them to shut you down.
.
Contact a media outlet in Germany or tech media. I would think that if Hetzner, a German company and one of Europe's largest hosting providers, is now a repeat victim of social hacks without even knowing it, that would be news.
For media attention you need a fire.
I don't think that will work, somebody should try to take hetzner.com down, their abuse department is so braindead that it is actually a possibility that this could go through with fake abuse
If they take themself down and still think their abuse department rocks I'm afraid that every help for them is to late.
Forgot to add, also it doesn't matter if you have 400 servers and receive 2 abuses in a year
Think someone send report to abuse department for Martin's server and they down Martin's server without checking
Hetzner is good, their servers are also good but abuses are the main issues.
their team should atleat check with common sense, i know theirs nothing like common sense , we have to prove our statement so that the person can understand cearly.
But also if we explain in details to hetzner, they won't believe.
Actually, i hosted a web development and hosting company on hetzner servers and in web hosting company, many clients purchase hosting and some of them are maybe fraud. Hetzner wants that the person must be removed immedietly, okay that is not an issue we will remove.
But if haven't removed under 24 hours then IP will be suspended, okay this is also not an big issue i will remove spammer in 2 minute.
But the main issue is emails,
One client sent emais to their clients and then after 1 day our IP got listed in SORBS and hetzner sent us an abuse report for blacklist abuse, i requested for delisting my IP in SORBS. No Reply from SORBS till 4 days and on the 4th day hetzner suspended our IP and all the 2000+ Websites goes down. and then hetzner reply once in 20 minutes. says the issue must be resolved first. i said that how it can be resolved in some minutes? all our websites are down and you're talking like this, how a spam department delist IP in some minutes? we already sent delist request to SORBS please unsuspend our IP.
still saying the issue must be resolved first.
at the end, i have to remove that customer then they unsuspended our IP.
It's really very very bad, all knows SORBS, SpamHaus list our IP if a little number of email being sent from server. But it is not good way to block the IP Address, spam departments won't delist the IP easily. I checked myself, SpamHaus is the most bloody organization they won't unblok your IP in any chance.
7 months ago my IP got listed, i have added an additional IP and switched all services to that additional IP now nothing is being sent or recieved or hosted on that old IP and bloody spamahaus still didn't delisted the IP. In the one hand, these organizations are saying that they're saving the world from spam and on the other hand they're killing businesses.
and Hetzner like datacenters supporting them.
@Hetzner_OL sir/mam if possible, please say ur team to atleast verify the abuse reports and also don't block the IP when IP got listed.
BTW, i wrote 10 times more long paragraphs to hetzner for explaining them and in return received just one frustrating line "issue must be resolved first"
Both SORBS and Spamhaus are often run through the mud and I’ve reached the conclusion they’ve been trying to convince me of for years: that people lie about them. I’ve never had a single problem getting an IP delisted when it was deserved. I’ve only hit pushback when I failed due diligence. It’s their list after all, why am I owed removal from it if I don’t satisfy their request?
But also don’t send mail from your hosting servers. Relay it elsewhere and remove the hosting server IP from headers. It’s one less thing.
Reading all this and even assuming that some stories aren't completely true, the lesson seems to be
Hetzner / @Hetzner_OL has really nice and cheap servers but their "support" and dealing with complaints is so utterly crappy that one should absolutely stay away from Hetzner unless one enjoys playing lottery with one's servers and getting abused by one's provider.
I'm being lazy here. How do I do this with MXRoute and a DokuWiki instance (https://dishonest.co.za)? I've tried running it through Gmail and Outlook too but the hosting server IP is still in the received email no matter the config with smtp plugin. Is it something I can do from DirectAdmin?
If you use MXroute I cut it out. I remove received headers at two points so the earliest received header should be the outbound filter server that it went through.
(insertion [...] mine]
That is what I call great service. Kudos.
@Hetzner_OL could - and should - learn a few things from @jar
@jar
I dont see why I should lie about something like this serious, Hetzner offers really good stuff, I loved them so much, but their abuse shit is just that, shit. Not only they do not offer the chance to redeem yourself by fixing what can be fixed, but at least the abuse team or whatever should be available at weekends and maybe 24/7, cuz their automatic systems just sucks. I cant image the guy who said who have 400 servers with them, to have all of them locked cuz its WEEKEND and nobody at hetzner abuse dep works!!
Anyway, Here is my full story:
It all happened last friday, I departed from my home in the early morning to take a plane, the flight was scheduled early because of the length of my journey, so i went to sleep early.
I didnt had time to check emails and stuff like that in the morning and at the airport lounge, but from the emails time, i guess it happened all in that morning (the first abuse email prolly were sent at night), and continued all the day with their reminders. I checked my emails in the late evening, when I returned home (dead tired).
At that point was late friday night, hetzner dudes werent working on weekends, my servers were locked (6) because a domain i didn't own were pointing on them.
I Immediately replied their abuse email stating that I was traveling and didnt had the chance to answer earlier.
Meanwhile the dudes had sent me, during my absence, the email of the servers locking, the email that my account were going to be closed on may 31th (final verdict, no appeal).
I tried to reason asking for the ips to be replaced (afterall, I had 6x EX42-Storages, I had paid the setup!), that I had nothing to do with that domain. Just Nothing!
Their answer were: remove that domain from our IP's and the ips are marked as copyright infringing and they will be locked/suspended. WTF!
I would like to point out that I have been a loyal client of Hetzner from March 2020, paying 240euro a month, EVERY month!
And thats how Im being served out, without giving a chance to fix shit.
After all this, their automatic system sends me the email that I need to pay the invoice, and I point out it saying that I will not pay the invoice for 6 locked servers. Their answer were: locked or not, the servers must be paid. LOL!
Thats the full story, I hope it helps.
I got the emails, of course...
As a closing point: Hetzner should be improving their abuse system, giving more time to the clients to fix what is fixable and not just LOCK or suspend stuff.
I agree. Some providers launch new features or change something in their system on the demand of users.
But maybe thousands of people reported Hetzner for his abuse system but Hetzner haven't changed anything
I would only suggest that I currently only have one side of the story, and that it’s resolution interests me. If any additional conclusion feels implied, it isn’t my intent.
I can agree on this except for three things which happen sometimes.
Otherwise, yes, in %99.999 times there is no issue with Sorbs/SpamHaus and they're almost correct in listing any IP.
I wrote about this issue several years ago. Now any student can boggle any server without documents or some kind of technical proof. Send hundreds of fakes. Employees in data centers do not check anything. They just forward abuses and think that the client is doing everything, and then they just stop the service.
hmmmm I've been using hetzner for more than 1 year now (used before in 2011) to provide free hosting and I'm sure most of you know what kind of customers free hosting attracts all those phishing pages, spammers, port scanners, etc ..
I think dealing with abuse department is same as any other hosting provider I dealt with (leaseweb, worldstream, phoenixnap, softlayer) its 24 hours to take action and provide explanation or your IP is nullrouted.
from 04/2020 to 04/2021 I got like 9 (except those portmapper nonsense) abuse messages regarding bank phishing pages/port scanner from abusive accounts . and my IP was locked for 45 mins because I didn't reply back to abuse message !!
am I lucky or missing something here ?
strange enough, the Hetzner REP whos active on LET, havent replied at all in this thread.
Well, it all sounds even worse than I thought. I can't complain about Hetzner myself so far as their servers have always been excellent for my needs (though my use cases are rather not public facing). Unfortunately, the risk is just too big for the benefit. I am developing a large project with the intention to host it at Hetzner, but even the possibility of servers going down over weekend and the thought of cooperating towards problem resolution on the level of the described by some of you single line meaningless emails stating simply "issue must be resolved first" is a show stopper for me now.
I don't see other possibility for myself than to stop recommending Hetzner for anything more then test / dev/ staging / hobby environments until something gets seriously done about the kind of issues mentioned people experienced in this thread (And yes, I've been recommending Hetzner for around a decade now).
I don't mind real abusers getting a kick. I wouldn't mind even paying some kind of small "premium service" membership fee as long as there is proper and meaningful resolution process. But I definitely can't allow myself to be at mercy of some revenge thirsty kids.
The whole situation reminds me of a 2013 post I read titled How to destroy someone who hosts stuff at Hetzner dedicated server. Yes, yes, I know - Hetzner now has DDOS protection but the statement made in the email by the author about an email he received saying "And then the person who attacked me sends me anonymous email like "lol, I bought 5$ packet at [some random booter/network stresser website], and I have put you offline for few days for only 15 minutes of DDoS, HAHAHAHA" - different but seems so familiar.
Do I think that any of these posts will change anything? NO, and it's sad because no one wishes anything bad to Hetzner, only for some improvement so that there aren'tany more stories like:
Ooh boy don't , just don't .
People here hosts their own stuff and get kicked by fake abuses , and you are hosting free web hosting and expecting to last ?
You must be idiot to think that !
They did, it’s an old thread, and now it’s weekend. Wait until Tuesday for good measure.
I want to send an complaint to Hetzner about their abuse department. but i'm scared, if they thought i'm a spammer/abuser and suspended my account then my 20+ Dedicated Servers, 7+ VPS and 10k+ Websites hosted on that server will go down. I will lost my 5 years of hardwork.
I want to shift to any other provider but my client whom i provided server from hetzner didn't want to shift anywhere else -_-
Don't worry when your time is up , they will kick you nicely
As a general rule it’s best not to antagonize your provider. It’s also best to not change providers every time anyone has something bad to say about them, that’s a moving target and you’ll be considered unreliable.
You are lucky, it is russian roulette with them in abuse regards and can vary from we will stop to do business with you on the second abuse mail to, we will be nice and only forward the message to you and give you some time to reply.
That is also one of the big problems from them, they don't work with standards you can rely on, the same abuse mail can trigger many different actions from them and you never know if they will close your account and nullroute all your servers on the next abuse mail.
I'm sorry if you don't understand English but did you read my post. I clearly stated that I had 9 high profile abuse reports (in the past year) and Hetzner like any other provider gives you enough time to act and they don't lock your account on-sight like most of replies on this thread is stating .
Even if those people know how to host their own stuff that won't necessarily make them know how to secure their servers against spammers or malware infecting those servers.
Thanks for your insight. lol