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Haha sounds like my OVH support case. But I expect that with them. LoL I love when they start, "Sir, let me explain to you how it is." LoL you already know what's coming it begs why even open a ticket?
What a waste of life, I would have paid $2 not to read this...
Time for another LET break I think.
sorry man, but that is wishful thinking and you simply miss the point.
OP decided to close a contract with 1and1 and not with ICANN. and that contract is not about the domain itself but about registering and managing it. yes the price includes the forwarded registration fees, but still the provider has been contracted to deal with all proccesses needed to become the registered owner.
doesn't matter if they paid something to ICANN or not in the end, because that's their contract with ICANN. the contract with OP is about handling that, not just about the ICANN fees.
and of course this contract can include a proactive renewal as service obligation and as the part of their ToS you posted indeed shows. and while it also shows, that they will delete it or set it to grace period and whatnot - it does not say, that they will revoke the invoice issued!
as has been said above, while the majority of providers, esp. outside europe might offer mainly prepaid stuff (which still is a contract by the way) and accept non-payment as a cancellation, that does not have to always be the case. doesn't matter if it's 1and1 or netcup or other examples...
could not say it any better than what @jar already wrote:
TL;DR; OP closed a contract with a company and did not care about the type of contract or the eventual need to actively cancel it. now he found out the hard way. congrats.
btw: I am not here to defend 1and1. for sure not, as I had my own run-ins with them as a phone provider. however, even if I don't like them, it really isn't their fault that people are too lazy to check what they sign up for.
I'm just imagining a scenario, like I've seen over and over again while working at places that terminate service after X amount of time unpaid:
"I didn't pay on time and you DELETED my domain!? You've cost me thousands of dollars!!1111 I'm going to sue you!!!!"
While that person may not be reasonable, multiply them by a hundred and you've identified something your customers think is a problem that they want you to solve. Good business is listening to your customers. So you decide to add a grace period, but you also decide that you don't want to do any further business with customers who leave you on the hook for that grace period instead of cancelling on time or paying the cost.
Inevitably you listen to these customers and make a business decision to support their request but with a reasonable "but if" to protect your costs, and now comes another customer who is absolutely outraged at what you've done... for your customers.
This is how it actually works in this industry. You literally cannot escape being called unfair by someone.
In the same afternoon I've answered tickets from:
A. Extremely irate that their service wasn't kept online after 12 months of nonpayment.
B. Extremely irate that their service was renewed automatically instead of requiring them to take an action every month to keep it online.
There is no pleasing everyone, there is only choosing who to piss off.
In domain's matter, 1&1 has to follow ICANN's rules. They write it in their TOS.
There is not any contract that obligates that the renewal is payable if not cancelled. In fact, they describe exactly the opposite in their TOS.
From the first second that a domains hasn't paid, then, the registrar sends automatically a notice for that to ICANN. So, the domain is in a quarantine period.
Netcup is state that in their TOS or "contract". 1&1 does not.
Please, read their TOS. There is not any obligation for cancellation. It's just like any other registrar.
Guys, you know better that a domain is not the same service as a server. It's common in this industry to let domains sink. After all, if 1&1 is wanting to handling things differently, then, they have to state so in their "contract", their TOS.
If this is about a domain and not hosting, then, ICANN and 1&a do have grace period. And 1&1 charges a fee for renewal after the due date. THIS is fair. And they WRITE THIS IN THEIR TOS.
This is what I'm saying. This is how actually the industry of domains works. All -ALL- major and smaller registrars do sink the domains from the moment these are not renewed or paid for renewal. THIS is the common practice. If 1&1 want a notice of cancellation before the end of the contract, THEY SHOULD have this written.
the very beginning of their ToS ( https://www.ionos.com/terms-gtc/general-terms-and-conditions/ )
so you sign up for ANY of their services, and are in a contract that automatically renews for all of them. how much clearer do you want it to be?
My word, jvnadr and falzo would make a great couple.
na, one divorce is enough for a lifetime.
Tell that to Trump. He will laugh at thee.
Naah, in fact @Falzo is really one of my favorites here... Not enough hate... Isn't it supposed that there is always nagging in a couple?
On a second thought, who talked about marriage?
couldn't agree more. we can have an argument and different opinions and still don't dislike each other, can't we?
just like in a marriage shortly before the divorce. been there, done that.
no idea. really. :-P
We all could use a weekend on Skinias beach.
Okay so here is my impression of IONOS:
I have 4 1€-VPS from them (each for 1 year). Sometimes network is a bit congested and i have packet loss (<1%) but overall these are fantastic, 500 Mbit, 20 GB, 1C, 512MB Ram VPS with unlimited traffic. I'm using them as bouncers without any problems
I mean, my point isn't really product dependent. It's common to let everything terminate if not paid for, but that doesn't stop customers from being upset or companies from being justified in listening to the concerns repeatedly brought up by their customers. Certainly you wouldn't suggest that "because it's most common" means it is the best possible outcome for all customers. It's "common" to scam LET members, doesn't make it right. Just because you expect your services to auto terminate does not mean you are morally superior to the person that doesn't.
In these situations you can piss off one person or another person, there is absolutely no way to piss off no one. Both think they are morally superior to the other and have an irrefutable claim to a universal absolute fact of what is "right." Doesn't matter if the product is a domain, a server, or cable TV.
Just like you don't care about customers who have a different expectation than you do on auto-expiration/renewal, the customer who is angry when their service (whatever service that may be) auto-terminates for non-payment doesn't care about what you think either. So which one of them is right? That's the job of the service provider to determine based on feedback from their customers.
See we do agree, because they did
I have no appreciation for 1&1 at all, I just feel the pain of being a service provider (again, irrelevant what the service is) on this particular issue.
1&1 is a great provider when you have too much cash and not enough sense.
For budget minded people, stay away from it.
Namecheap is a better option for domains. You pay, they keep the domain. You dont pay, they cancel it (after reminding you like 5 times).
As for VPS, I'm still looking for it.
Did 1&1 actually renew the domain in question for the year in question. If not they do not have grounds for claiming payment. If they actually did renew and the domain was actively registered undered the op's name, then he is obligated to pay them as he agreed to autorenew prior to getting the domain for a discount
I suspect that the OP (@flyingatm) is long gone at this point, having joined on August 2 and having been last active on that same day, so we shouldn't expect to see a refined reaction from him.
Reading is a foreign concept in today's world. No matter how many times we tell people these companies are shit they continue to use them and get burnt.
Should be a rule here use these hosts at your own risk, and if you decide to use them, do not come here and bitch about it. This should get you a permanent ban and a F-OFF for wasting our time and effort.
I've had some domains with 1&1.
They clearly stated cancellation period to be 2 weeks, or a month - can't remember. If it's not cancelled that long up front - they will expect you to pay for renewal.
If you don't pay the renewal, they stated the domain could get terminated AND you could get sued for the renewal price.
So it wasn't as if "I didn't know". Since I didn't like having to worry about cancellation dates, and for other reasons (better control panel that actually makes some sense and lower prices), I switched all the domains to Namecheap and never looked back.
1&1 has its bad points, I'm not a fan and not using any of their services anymore, but as far as OP's "problem" goes - 1&1 did what they said they will do and he (implicitly) agreed to when taking the service and clicking the "I Agree" button.
Generally speaking: I don't think it's very nice to just stop paying re-occuring costs/services without at least notifying the service provider and confirming the cancellation.
That's the argument. There's no reoccurring costs and user has no expectation of reoccurring service. It's not a subscription service. It's 1&1 who are adding unnecessary b.s. All my domain providers have automatic renewal on or off. If it is off, I have no expectation of having to buy another year. No special cancellation request needed, I simply didn't manually renew.
According to all signs, the OP did not turn off auto-renewal of the domains. This is the crucial point. And it is this point that best explains what happened. (Just read what the IONOS representative said towards the end of the OP's copied conversation.)
If you want to defend the OP, who was content to sign up here to start a hit & run thread, then you should assume that the OP left auto-renewal on. (Or you should try to argue that the IONOS representative was lying or mistaken.)
In any case, bear mind that the OP is gone and doesn't care, and that this is an incident that took place a few years ago.
TL ; DR. 1&1 has a bullshit and out of ordinary clause. Stay away from it. Pretty sure we can agree on that.
No one forced the OP to sign up at 1&1 and then to sign up again, creating a double account.
most likely he tried to login with the old account and was suspended already, hence created a new one... that bullet simply came back.
as mentioned I don't like 1und1 either. however, if I'll go order services with them, I'd be fully aware of what to expect - their reputation is really nothing new.
For what it's worth, my earlier experience with them as a registrar was okay, and a number of LET participants find their VPSes to be good. This said, opinions appear to vary.
In any case, the OP's complaint was bogus.
So stay clear of 1&1? Any good alternatives for cheap .uk domains? thanks
How come?
Pretty much every service I know about operates on prepaid principle.
No money upfront equals no service. Unless you signed some very specifically worded agreement.
Recently I've tried to close my account with Time4vps, only to discover I no longer have an account.
VPS? Yes. Account? No.
Had to dig up my mail archive to make sure I'm actually a registered customer.
So I couldn't cancel and let my VPS expire.
Am I now a criminal too?
Should time4vps refuse my business/sue me in the future?
for some the world is smaller than for others...
.> @joedeme said:
Might check https://tld-list.com/tld/uk
personally I would pay a few pence more to register .uk with Dynadot - seems to about $7 there currently